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The Synod has started....

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Mac, Oct 7, 2015.

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  1. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I just finished reading Pope Francis' closing talk to the Synod Fathers. Some thoughts:

    Our Pope consistently corrects the self-righteous. For instance:

    It was also about laying closed hearts, which bare the closed hearts which frequently hide even behind the Church’s teachings or good intentions, in order to sit in the chair of Moses and judge, sometimes with superiority and superficiality, difficult cases and wounded families.

    He stated something similar at the end of last year's synod, too, encouraging all to avoid...

    …a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals.

    So it is obvious our Pope despises anything of a pharasaical nature. However, last year he also spoke against the opposing temptation:
    - The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.”

    Mark Mallett does a much better job of expounding on these points!:rolleyes:

    It is interesting that in this year's closing statements the Pope failed to mention this destructive tendency. However, he did quote Pope Benedict, highlighting a way to speak the truth in love:

    When the Church has to recall an unrecognized truth, or a betrayed good, she always does so impelled by merciful love, so that men may have life and have it abundantly (cf. Jn 10:10)

    So this is my response to the Synod- to begin the Year of Mercy early and when impelled by merciful love, to bring to the mind of the straying an unrecognized truth! Keep me Lord from any judgmental attitude and give me a servant heart.:)

    Safe in Flames of the Sacred Heart!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  2. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    Exactly. I would also call it a "false love." You can not have love without the truth.
     
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  3. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Nice to see how nonjudgmental you are
     
  4. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    Joe,

    Those are your words I copied and pasted.
     
  5. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    Mary's dominate messages are divine mercy and love. Very orthodox Catholics can risk putting the law first before mercy and love. It's a battle mindset which tends to assume certain people can't be saved becuase they arn't following the law. This mindset tends to tie the sin with the sinner and falls to seek common ground and communication which can open the door to changing them and saving them. It's the "I'm saved and too bad for all your sinners" mindset. How many prodical sons and daughters will be saved if we greet them with the 10 commandments hanging off our extended hand?

    God converted Saul so we better not assume we know who can and can't be saved. God will shut the door when the time is right.
    Yes MMM
    This very danger of legalism is the reef that Pope Francis idetifies. As you say traditionalist groups,as opposed to traditional Catholics, tend to dismiss the Popes message of mercy and his pastoral approach to the fsithful as so much window dressing and even a cover for ulterior motives of modernism. For most good Catholics this is not only arrant nonsense but offensive to our Faith. Basically such people are calling our Holy Father a liar. By no stretch of the imaginstiion can such people idetify themsrlves as Roman Catholic. We are calked to be fishers of souls. If you know anything about fishing you will know that great care must be taken in choosing the time and place and choice of bait and equipment. Preparation of the tackle and consideration of the species must also be considered. As an example for some species even large examples you don't put a huge chunk of bait on the hook. It puts the fish off. It knows it can't swallow it. So yes I agree to approach a soul shaking the 10 commandments in its face is often a poor way to make a catch. I also agree, as does Pope Francis, that some legalistic and self righteous traditiinalists emphasise justice before mercy. Fire and brimstone still seems to be their thing. As the old sayimg goes 'you can catch more flies with a teaspoon of honey than a barrel of vinegar.' In my job I get the chance to talk to loads of non Christians, non Catholics and lapsed Catholics. I always try to find common ground from where our conversation can be launched and after point out safe landing spots. Such a spot may simply be an invitation to look around our lovely new church. Often I have to reassure them of God's love. They are often hurt and angry. Often I can share my own experience. While I may quote scripture and help them see it in a different light I never bible bash and I never water down the truth. I just try to make it more attractive and digestible. Lately a Jehova's witness has shown great interest in Our Lady of Akita and visited our church to see Her Statue. For now we have the coming year of mercy. The time for emphasis on mercy may be giving way to a time of tribulation but Our Holy Father will try with Our Lady to hold back the tide, the tsunami of suffering that approaches, the heavy hand of God that is needed to sweep the rubbish off the face of the earth, to clean house and allow for a fresh start. I hope for their sake that legalistic people and opponents of the pope by then have learned better to live by the Spirit than by the Law. Because if we don't live. We die. It is good to remember Mary's words, "I alone can still save you fron the calamities ahead." But i agree, time is running out for those who have not yet converted or repented. The Hand that has shielded us is being lifted away and the heavy hand of Chastisement is ready to strike. Let us make the most of the time of mercy that is left.
    Joe Crozier, Today at 1:29 PMReport
    #430LikeReply


    Joe,
    You wrote that near the bottom. I was quoting your written words.
     
  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I suppose there is no good speculating too much but I think we need to be aware of the gravity of things.

    There is one element of Proph we should be aware (and there is so much Prophecy in regard to this it is hard to know where to start) and that is that there will be total and complete confusion that the great body of people will genuinely not know the false from the true. Leading from this that most folks will follow the false. That only a faithful remnant will remain.
     
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  7. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Judgment

    Mercy vs. Condemnation

    The great debate

    :( :)
     
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Matthew 5:18

    17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
     
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  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    As Mario above says, in last year's synod address the Pope tacked a middle course between pharisaism and liberalism. I would not rule out the possibility that this year he will maintain his balance by clobbering the former side in his words and the latter by his subsequent actions.
     
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  10. miker

    miker Powers

    Today's Gospel. I think Jesus' question at the end of this passage to the pharisee's is directed at each one of us today?

    On a sabbath Jesus went to dine
    at the home of one of the leading Pharisees,
    and the people there were observing him carefully.
    In front of him there was a man suffering from dropsy.
    Jesus spoke to the scholars of the law and Pharisees in reply, asking,
    “Is it lawful to cure on the sabbath or not?”
    But they kept silent; so he took the man and,
    after he had healed him, dismissed him.
    Then he said to them
    “Who among you, if your son or ox falls into a cistern,
    would not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?”
    But they were unable to answer his question.
     
  11. MarysChild

    MarysChild Principalities

    Is it really a debate? The only debate I have seen is whether "mercy" should include throwing out or minimizing Christ's teachings. This cannot be.

    Of course, once sin is admitted and repented of, then mercy is shown...and it is also true that, often, initially, sharing of the Gospel can emphasize the love of God for that person (and Christ's love in particular) rather than the moral precepts which flow from our relationship with God and with other people. However, there should be no debate about actually calling evil good, intentionally obscuring the morality of intrinsic evil, or pointing out the positive aspects of an action or situation which is always evil.
     
  12. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    I don't know anybody here who is talking judgement/condemnation. I believe the divide is between Mercy vs Truth. Did not our Lord say the wages of sin is death. Ok. Now go on and spin that saying , it doesn't really mean what it is saying, or 2000 years of church teaching can mean something else, in other words, confusion.

    I thought this synod was to bring about clarity out of confusion.
     
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  13. MarysChild

    MarysChild Principalities

  14. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I think it is important to keep things in a certain context. If the various prophesies are imminently to be fulfilled, it is likely that there will be a dramatic realisation by many of their sense of sin. However, human nature being what it is, there will be some so moulded into their sinful lifestyles that their movement toward grace may not be as immediate as others. Inevitably, there will be some recidivism. It has always been the case that for every individual who aspires to it, sainthood will come at their own unique pace and for most will finally only be realised in Purgatory. Perhaps, Pope Francis has an insight of this coming Warning/Illumination/Rescue? In that case, it would be understandable that he might consider this an inopportune moment for a rigorist approach, while still avoiding a surrender to those who would compromise with sin. It dawned on me today that the controversial interview by Pope Benedict some years back about homosexuals using condoms might be relevant to the approach. This interview was widely misinterpreted, of course, but sordid as the subject is, my interpretation (and I am more than willing to stand corrected if I am wrong) is that Benedict intimated that even as great a sinner as the sodomite made a small movement towards Grace by the use of a condom to limit the risk to his equally sinful partner. I think this was an example of Mercy on Benedict's behalf, seeking some good within the sinner despite the enormity of the sin, and certainly not condoning it. Mercy also requires patience in the hope that from such tiny acorns, the full oak of complete repentance might grow.

    As an aside, imagine if Pope Francis gave an interview like that. He'd be condemned by many as the Antichrist!
     
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  15. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    Very well and thoughtful piece. However, (you knew that was coming), there are too many if's for me to go along with it. If the pope has an insight on things that are just speculation at this point, why not let us in on it. How is that even possible, I refuse to cover my eyes . I refused to cover them when I found out about the enormous pedophilia problem among the clergy. When the hierarchy refused to admit or do anything about it and even covered it up , we said we will not go along or participate. We refused to OBEY. I will go so far as to say that if this pope is serious about the truth on this subject like he says he is, then he call up Stephen Brady of Roman Catholic Faithful and find out who the perpetrators were/are. When we were stepped on, like Fr Malachi Martin and Fr Charles Fiore were, by the bishops, cardinals, etc and were condemned by groups such as Opus Dei as causing scandal we believed in the truth and persevered and it cost Fr Alferd Kunz his life (and perhaps others).

    I wish there was such a thing as universal salvation. However, I believe (not sure of anything anymore) that it has been condemned by the church. I don't wish for anyone going to hell, including all those clergy that kept their mouths shut while our children were being abused. That is up to God to judge, not me or anyone else. I need God's mercy to get to heaven. I need Jesus's death on the cross and his shed blood.

    It is folly to call this a disagreement between mercy and judgement/condemnation. I will condemn that characterization.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
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  16. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    It's not that I had a plurality of "ifs", just one very big one! I concur totally with your last sentence. Mercy and Judgement/Condemnation are intrinsically inseparable because they are all merely different aspects of the one thing. No salvation without pre-mortal repentance.
     
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  17. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

    *** FOR SALE***

    #10 Virgin Lamp Oil...Limited supply.

    MFG Disclaimer ....will not work on #5 Roman Torch
     
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  18. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Funny I was just listening to a discussion of the Synod on the BBC there by two Catholic, 'Experts'. One said it was a total victory for the German, 'Liberals' , one said it was a total, 'Conservative' victory.

    I am glad I am not the only one who feels a little bit lost with it all.
     
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  19. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    We desperatly need Pope Francis' document on the end results of the synod ASAP with clarity. Until then the confusion remains. Perhaps after the clarity comes the formal schism.
     
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  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The Vatican is such a secretive place.

    I remember when the Anglican Communion was in the process of breaking up (it still is) , I read some of the comments of the parties. I have to say many of the comments coming out of the parties involved in the Synod are far, far more fierce that those the Anglicans came out with.

    I think this tells us something in itself. The angry tone of the comments and the fact that they are made right out in the open...
     
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