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The Pope and sodomy

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Blizzard, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    This has become a problem of such dimensions that it might deserve its own thread.

    Michael Voris is becoming increasingly vocal about the current pope´s role in all this.

  2. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

  3. CrewDog

    CrewDog Archangels

    I'll dig up poor old Sir John again and paraphrase his famous quote:
    "Perversion doth not prosper. What is the reason? For if it doth, none dare call it perversion?"

  4. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Michael Voris is right about there being a homosexual/sodomy agenda pushed by so many of the top church hierarchy surrounding Pope Francis.
    But then he thinks that Pope Francis is 'innocent' or 'ignorant' about the real reason behind the 'mercy' that they preach. I don't believe PF is ignorant. He is well aware and is supporting them. Indeed it seems to be one of the top priorities of his pontificate. "Who am I to judge?" The message was given right at the beginning of this papacy.
  5. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    I found an article recently talking about Father Martin's relativism, abuse of his authority and apostate beliefs and its a good read. But, it is the Saints themselves which I think speak the loudest and further elaborate on this issue quite clearly.
    I too am having a hard time seeing this onslaught of relativism specifically with regard to sodomy is anything but a concerted effort to destroy the Church's teachings.
    It seems fairly self evident the goal.

    From this article;

    St. Augustine says:

    “Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.”

    “Your punishments are for sins which men commit against themselves, because, although they sin against You, they do wrong in their own souls and their malice is self-betrayed. They corrupt and pervert their own nature, which You made and for which You shaped the rules, either by making wrong use of the things which You allow, or by becoming inflamed with passion to make unnatural use of things which You do not allow” (Rom. 1:26). (St. Augustine, Confessions, Book III, chap. 8)

    St. John Chrysostom says:

    “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic….. So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body….. There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.” (St. John Chrysostom, In Epistulam ad Romanos IV, in J. McNeill, op. cit., pp. 89-90)

    St Gregory the Great says:

    “Brimstone calls to mind the foul odors of the flesh, as Sacred Scripture itself confirms when it speaks of the rain of fire and brimstone poured by the Lord upon Sodom. He had decided to punish in it the crimes of the flesh, and the very type of punishment emphasized the shame of that crime, since brimstone exhales stench and fire burns. It was, therefore, just that the sodomites, burning with perverse desires that originated from the foul odor of flesh, should perish at the same time by fire and brimstone so that through this just chastisement they might realize the evil perpetrated under the impulse of a perverse desire.” (St. Gregory the Great, Commento morale a Giobbe, XIV, 23, vol. II, p. 371, Ibid., p. 7)

    St. Peter Damian;

    “What else shall I say? It expels all the forces of virtue from the temple of the human heart and, pulling the door from its hinges, introduces into it all the barbarity of vice … In effect, the one whom … this atrocious beast [of homosexuality] has swallowed down its bloody throat is prevented, by the weight of his chains, from practicing all good works and is precipitated into the very abysses of its uttermost wickedness. Thus, as soon as someone has fallen into this chasm of extreme perdition, he is exiled from the heavenly motherland, separated from the Body of Christ, confounded by the authority of the whole Church, condemned by the judgment of all the Holy Fathers, despised by men on earth, and reproved by the society of heavenly citizens. He creates for himself an earth of iron and a sky of bronze … He cannot be happy while he lives nor have hope when he dies, because in life he is obliged to suffer the ignominy of men’s derision and later, the torment of eternal condemnation” (Liber Gomorrhianus, in PL 145, col. 159-178).

    St. Albert the Great says:

    They are born from an ardent frenzy; they are disgustingly foul; those who become addicted to them are seldom freed from that vice; they are as contagious as disease, passing quickly from one person to another. (St. Albert the Great, In Evangelium Lucae XVII, 29, in J. McNeill, op. cit., p. 95)

    St. Thomas Aquinas says:

    “However, they are called passions of ignominy because they are not worthy of being named, according to that passage in Ephesians (5:12): ‘For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.’ For if the sins of the flesh are commonly censurable because they lead man to that which is bestial in him, much more so is the sin against nature, by which man debases himself lower than even his animal nature.” (St. Thomas Aquinas, Super Epistulas Sancti Pauli Ad Romanum I, 26, pp. 27f)

    St. Bonaventure says:

    “Seventh prodigy: All sodomites—men and women—died all over the earth, as Saint Jerome said in his commentary on the psalm ‘The light was born for the just.’ This made it clear that He was born to reform nature and promote chastity.” (St. Bonaventure, Sermon XXI—In Nativitate Domini, in Catolicismo (Campos/Sao Paulo), December 1987, p. 3; F. Bernardei, op. cit., p. 11)

    St. Bernardino of Siena says:

    “No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God….. Such passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor…. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is.” (St. Bernardine of Siena, Predica XXXIX, in Le prediche volgari (Milan: Rizzoli, 1936), pp. 869ff., 915, in F. Bernadei, op. cit., pp. 11f)

    St. Catherine of Siena says:

    “They not only fail from resisting this frailty [of fallen human nature] … but do even worse as they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them…. It is disagreeable to the demons, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.” (St. Catherine of Siena, El diálogo, in Obras de Santa Catarina de Siena (Madrid: BAC, 1991), p. 292)

    St. Peter Canisius says:

    As the Sacred Scripture says, the Sodomites were wicked and exceedingly sinful. Saint Peter and Saint Paul condemn this nefarious and depraved sin. In fact, the Scripture denounces this enormous indecency thus: ‘The scandal of Sodomites and Gomorrhans has multiplied and their sins have become grave beyond measure.’ So the angels said to just Lot, who totally abhorred the depravity of the Sodomites: ‘Let us leave this city….’ Holy Scripture does not fail to mention the causes that led the Sodomites, and can also lead others, to this most grievous sin. In fact, in Ezechiel we read: ‘Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom: pride, fullness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and the poor. And they were lifted up, and committed abominations before me; and I took them away as thou hast seen’ (Ezech. 16: 49-50). Those unashamed of violating divine and natural law are slaves of this never sufficiently execrated depravity.” (source, source)
    josephite and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  6. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    On Twitter when I correct him or point out how he is leading souls into hell not heaven, (often) I call him James, not Father. Father is reserved for those doing the work of Christ to help people reach heaven.
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    But how does he get away with it?
    HeavenlyHosts, Shae and Mary's child like this.
  8. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    How do THEY get away with it?

    Obviously they feel confident someone's got their back.
  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers


    I hope the above isn't too stomach-churning, but this is what's happening:

    • Pope calls Chilean abuse victims spreaders of calumny and says no evidence/proof has been given him.
    • Despite Cardinal O'Malley personally giving the Pope a letter offering evidence.
    • Now it seems the CDF made a recommendation that Bishop Barros should be removed.
    • The Pope personally removed from the CDF 3 priests concerned with investigating child abuse.
    • .When Cdl Mueller asks the Pope for an explanation, he is told 'I am the Pope' and the audience ends.
    • Scicluna, the CDF abuse prosecutor, had already been 'promoted' to be Archbishop of Malta
    • Since the end of last year the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors has been allowed to fall into abeyance.
    • He has surrounded himself in the Council of 9 with those who have denied abuse like Cdl Maradiaga who described the abuse crisis as a 'Jewish media conspiracy' or more to the point Barros' defender and the Chilean Archbishop Emeritus of Santiago Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, known locally as "the Sandbag" because of his failure to act on abuse.
    • He has also honoured notorious coverers up of abuse like Cardinals Daneels and Mahoney, who seem to have been prominent in his election.
    • During this Pontificate aberrant sexuality seems to be promoted.
    • The report produced on the 'Gay Mafia' seems to be ignored.
      • Accounts of his own handling of abuse in Buenos Aires seem to be mixed.

    BrianK and SgCatholic like this.
  10. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    As with almost everything that comes out of the Vatican these days there´s more than meets the eye here.

    But as another member reminded us just now:

    For nothing is hidden that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.
    - Luke 8:17

    This seems to be particularly true these days.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Prepare yourselves, folks. It’s soon going to seem as if the Church were in total eclipse.
  12. sunburst

    sunburst Archangels

    I believe it!
    Praetorian likes this.
  13. sterph

    sterph Archangels

    Just gave you like number 5000. Congrats.
    josephite and BrianK like this.
  14. sterph

    sterph Archangels

    Seriously. I'm totally dreading it.
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Thanks! It’s been a good day!
    CathyG, Praetorian, sunburst and 7 others like this.
  16. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    We’re going to have to deal with this at some point. The premise of this book, unfortunately, is true. Canon law changed in 1917. Is that date just a coincidence?


    Popes ordered silence, former judge Kieran Tapsell claims in book
    JOANNE McCARTHYMay 27 2014 - 10:00PM
    SEMINARY: Kieran Tapsell, far right. Jim Fletcher, convicted of child sex offences in 2005, is sitting down next to him wearing glasses.
    A FORMER NSW judge who studied to be a priest with a future notorious Hunter child sex offender has launched a devastating critique of the Catholic Church’s six popes, including two new saints, who covered up a global child sex abuse crisis for nearly a century.

    Popes Pius XI, Pius XII, Paul VI, Benedict XVI and the recently named papal saints John Paul II and John XXIII ‘‘effectively facilitated child sexual abuse’’, retired acting NSW district court judge Kieran Tapsell argues in his new book, Potiphar’s Wife: The Vatican’s Secret and Child Sexual Abuse.

    INSIGHT: Author and former judge Kieran Tapsell.

    While canon law until 1917 required sex offender priests to be dismissed and reported to police, a series of canon law changes and papal decrees since imposed a ‘‘permanent silence’’ that continues to prohibit reporting of some matters in some Australian states even today, Tapsell said.

    He reserved some of his most devastating criticism for Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, who blamed Irish bishops in 2010 after the release of damning reports into child sexual abuse in that country, but failed to mention bishops were prohibited from reporting cases to police.

    ‘‘The cover-up of child sexual abuse did not occur because of bad faith or incompetence on the part of bishops, albeit in some cases that existed, but because they were ordered to cover it up through canon law by six popes since Pius XI in 1922,’’ Tapsell said.

    Benedict XVI ‘‘knew that he was part of the Roman Curia that was administering, confirming and entrenching a system of privilege of clergy that not only protected child sex offenders from going to jail, but that led to further sex attacks by them on children’’.

    While Australian bishops in the 1990s had shown ingenuity and even courage in trying to deal with child sex offender priests including the notorious Hunter priest Denis McAlinden, that courage had ‘‘now gone out the window’’ because they refused to ‘‘face the truth about the six popes who have orchestrated a cover-up’’.

    Tapsell trained to be a priest for six years in the 1960s. He remembers fellow trainee, the late Hunter priest Jim Fletcher, as ‘‘just an average sort of person’’ whose conviction in 2005 for child sex offences was a shock.

    Pope Francis’s comments on the child sexual abuse crisis were a concern, but secular inquiries like the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry, the NSW Special Commission of Inquiry into Hunter cases, and the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse would force change, Tapsell said.

    ‘‘Some things are already clear because of the royal commission. Towards Healing [the Australian Catholic Church’s system of dealing with child sexual abuse cases] is finished. The days of the Church investigating itself are finished.’’

    Potiphar’s Wife: The Vatican’s Secret and Child Sexual Abuse, ATF Press.
    HeavenlyHosts, Carol55, Don_D and 2 others like this.
  17. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    "...canon law until 1917 required sex offender priests to be dismissed and reported to police":

    The above was surely the height of common sense. One would think, what else would one do?

    This is jaw-droppingly shocking to read. It is more confirmation of the prophecies and visions of Pope Leo XIII and Pope St Pius X.

    I do believe Benedict tried his best, but it is hard to defend the remainder. Yet we have never had such a rate of rapid papal canonisation.

    I am struggling for words. When is satan's 100-year reign going to end?

    Whatever spirit the Church authorities were listening to in 1917, it certainly wasn't the Holy Spirit.

    May the Lord God have mercy on us all.
    HeavenlyHosts, Blizzard and Don_D like this.
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    What do we know about Kieran Tapsell? Is he trustworthy?
  19. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    The article is from 2014 although I think it certainly brings to light the problems we are facing now because they still have not been dealt with and will be used against the Church. Quite frankly it is not surprising.
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  20. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    From the reviews I read his book is written in a direct dispassionate factual manner, but I know nothing else about the author.

    Kieran Tapsell studied for the Catholic priesthood at St. Columba’s College, Springwood, and St. Patrick’s College Manly in the 1960's, during which time he studied Canon Law for some 3 years. After leaving the seminary, he studied Law at Sydney University. He was admitted a Solicitor and Barrister of the Supreme Court of NSW in 1973, was a partner in the firm of Watkins Tapsell from 1973 to 2004, an Accredited Specialist in Commercial Litigation and Advocacy, and a District Court Arbitrator and Mediator. He was an Acting District Court Judge from 1996 to 1999 and the author of many articles in legal journals on topics within his area of specialization. Since his retirement from his legal practice in 2004, he has been translating Latin American literature and newspaper columns from Spanish to English.​

    Interesting reviews at Amazon:
    HeavenlyHosts and DeGaulle like this.

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