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The Mass It Is A Changin'

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Praetorian, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

  2. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Now we know why Pope Francis was so quick to slap down Cardinal Sarah. Mass will be different in every diocese depending on the whim of the Bishop, and possibly different in ever parish if a Bishop gives priests the ok to bring their own creativity to the "Lord's table". It's already happening in Italy. While Fr. Longenecker makes a valid point about Lifesite News being rather biased, the carry-on in Italy, supported by the Bishop, was reported on the diocesan website.

    These bishops and priests always claim that Pope Francis is their inspiration. Absent any correction from Rome, at some stage we have to face up to the fact that they are acting with Papal approval.
     
    sparrow, Julia, Fatima and 1 other person like this.
  3. sunburst

    sunburst Archangels

    It is just awful what is taking place because of these maneuvers by Pope Francis,...he said he wanted to make a mess and I think he is succeeding.:(

     
    Julia likes this.
  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think this story may be even bigger than most people realize at first glance. Magnum Principium gave the individual Bishops conferences the right to alter the Mass translations.

    This Cardinal is altering the Mass on his own!

    Anyone who understands how the Church works today will know the importance of precedents. If this is not shut down, and quickly, then other Cardinals then Bishops and maybe even individual Priests will feel they are free to do the same. Pretty soon the Mass will not just vary from country to country, but from diocese to diocese and possibly from parish to parish.

    I'm sorry for those out there who like the Novus Ordo, but I would think at that point the Latin Mass would really be the only option to be sure of attending a valid Mass.
     
    Julia, sunburst, gracia and 1 other person like this.
  5. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    A mess it is indeed. :mad:
     
    Julia and sunburst like this.
  6. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    As far as I can see, this Cardinal was only waiting for an excuse to do it his way.

    If you remember when Pope Benedict gave Priests permission to offer Latin Mass without going through the Bishops. This never came about because the Bishops apparently blocked the Priests from making the choice. In other words, many Bishops and I suppose Cardinals are a law unto themselves. They just jump on the wagon the minute the Pope says something they can manipulate to their own designs. But ignore the Pope when it suits them.

    Of course there are many faithful Cardinals and Bishops; but the "I Will Not Serve Brigade" seem to win every time.

    We need to do what retired Bishop Garcedia says and get up and say "NO" enough is enough. Before Jesus exits the Tabernacles in sheer disgust with the lot of us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
    sunburst likes this.
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    It is not the language the mass is said in that makes it valid. Find a holy priest and you will find a holy mass in what ever language one speaks. In the day, I attended several masses said by Father John Hardon in English and Latin and I am confident that both were very pleasing to God. The problem today, is we have so very few holy priests left. Most priests want to appease their parishioners who themselves are confused as the world. It is not any different than trying to find a holy priest one can confess to who can listen and provide holy advise. Its just getting harder all the time and like many prophecies have stated, it will seem at some point as if the Church has been defeated. This will be the worst of times, but we must not despair. Stay in the state of grace and pray, pray, pray.
     
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  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I'm sorry Fatima maybe my post was not clear, I didn't mean to infer that only Latin Masses have a valid consecration. My point was that if these changes get out of control and they begin tinkering with the consecration that could make the Mass invalid. Since all of this tinkering is in the Novus Ordo it might leave people with no alternative but to attend a Latin Mass if they can find one, because that does not change by it's very nature.
     
  9. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Interestingly enough, some in the Latin Mass are in schism. Some in the Novus Ordo mass are in schism. Seems there is a far right and a far left are apart from truth. Its just that the far left are growing and diving very quickly towards the diction of the false prophet and antichrist.
     
    Mary's child and Praetorian like this.
  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    The devil doesn't care if he leads us out of the Church from the "left" or from the "right".
    He just wants us out.
    That is why it is safest to travel well away from the edges of the Barque!
    The railings fell off a while ago...
     
    Mary's child and Julia like this.
  11. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    There are only two options that I'm aware of for attending a Latin Mass in our diocese. The Traditional Latin Mass is at 8 a.m. on weekdays and 10.30 on a Sunday in a part of the city where the traffic is a nightmare and there's hardly any parking. The other option is a weekly Mass at 11 a.m. on Sunday in a more accessible centre city church (the Archbishop's church) with a car park nearby. That Mass is simply the Novus Ordu Mass translated into Latin. Were our Bishops to introduce a more "creative" Mass, all they need do is translate the innovations into Latin. A made-up Mass in Latin would be no better than its English equivalent.
     
  12. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    Fatima, I have heard some of the Latin Mass supporters are in schism, but I was not aware some of the Novus Ordo Mass are in schism. Scary stuff. Hope someone can enlighten us as to where Novus Ordo might be affected.

    How in God's name can we stay safe in the Barque of Peter if everything is schismatic.
     
    Mary's child likes this.
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Julia, I was referring to those who are accepting teachings contrary to the gospel of Christ and the 6th commandment of God against adultery and receiving communion, which in places is being allowed in the vernacular to be given to the divorce and remarried who have not received an annulment since the PF document AL. As far as I am concerned they are in schism who allow for this and who participate in this abomination.
     
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I guess I should have said Tridentine Mass Dolours, rather than just "Latin Mass", as you are correct the Novus Ordo can be said in Latin. The Tridentine Mass by it's very nature doesn't change except incrementally over the ages. If you attended one said by good traditional priests they would throw a fit if a Bishop came in and tried to write his own version of it. I don't think that Bishop would get very far. Trads don't put up with "tinkering" and "innovation" very well ;).
     
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