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The Immaculate Conception.

Discussion in 'Mother of God' started by padraig, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    So this great Feast Day is coming round again. My heart leaps and haven rejoices at this Great Feast Day. But I must admit I always feel a little lost in understanding this mystery and so am forever trying to pay close attention to the sermons on the Feast. Still they always seem to revolve around the Garden of Eden and the role of Eve. True of course but I can't help getting the feeling of missing something great.

    My own pathways to the Marian mysteries has been the rosary . The rosary leads us to the feet of Mary and is a great window of understanding. But of course there is no mystery in the rosary concerning the Immaculate Conception and this always leaves me rather at a loss :)

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  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    One event that does open a window for me are the Marian Apparitions at Lourdes, France. Pope Pius IX defined the Dogma on December 8th 1954:

    We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful.

    — Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854[42]



    Whilst the apparitions at Lourdes began just four years later on the 11th of February 1858. The Gates of Heaven being opened so to speak and Our Lady coming down from heaven to place the Seal of Approval on the Pope's Proclamation of the new Dogma.

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    What always has me thinking is that Our Lady said to St Bernadette , 'I am the Immaculate Conception. ' Not, 'I was the Immaculate Conception', or 'I was Immaculately Conceived' . So we see this as something not fixed in time but something Eternal, frozen as it were in the Heart of the Trinity for all Eternity. A constant conception. An act of God that never ceases. Or so it seems to me.In the film , 'The Song of Bernadette', the Cure of Lourdes asked Bernadette to ask the lady to tell her her name. When saint Bernadette reports that the lady said she was , 'The Immaculate Conception' the poor priest is confused. Should she not rather have said, 'I was immaculately conceived'?

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  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    So because Our Lady described described herself thus I have always thought it summed up the Mother of God perfectly. That she is a Word of God Eternally on His lips. Forever new and forever renewed. Held up so to speak in utter purity in the Hands of the Blessed Trinity. What,really could be more astounding?

    “He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” – St. Hippolytus (circa 235 A.D.)

    “This Virgin Mother of the Only begotten of God is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” – Origen (244)

    “Thou alone and Thy Mother are in all things fair; there is no flaw in Thee and no stain in Thy Mother.” – St. Ephraim (370)

    “Mary, a virgin not only undefiled but a virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” – St. Ambrose (388)

    “A Virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.” – Theodotus of Ancrya (446)

    “The very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary; if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” – Jacob of Sarug (521)

    “In the womb of the her mother now begins to blossom the earth which will be the dwelling place of the Creator of the earth, the holy scepter, the new ark, the vessel of manna, … the bush which was not consumed by fire, the golden candelabrum, the living bridal room of the Lord God.” – Hymn for the feast of the Conception of St. Anne (seventh century)

    “She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.” – Theotoknos of Livias (650)

    “Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendor and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature again regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God…. The reform of our nature begins today, and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.” – Andrew of Crete (733)

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  5. MMarie

    MMarie Guest

    Thank you a 1000 times for this!!!!! How eloquent are the Church fathers you have quoted!
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  6. TaraLuisa

    TaraLuisa Guest

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  7. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    "It will be December 8, when Immaculate Conception will crush Serpent's head." (Montichiari, Světlo 48/2010, translated in Czech from unknown source SKS 49/2007)
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  8. sparrow

    sparrow Archangels

    My understanding of the Immaculate Conception is exactly what you have quoted from Pope Pius IX - "...the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin..."
    In a nutshell. Why do we have to understand any more than this pronouncement? I try to keep my faith simple on purpose without having to understand the immeasurable depths of God's ways. :notworthy:
  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

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  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Thank you Jesus for sending me a good day today. All your days are good of course ,since they come from your loving hand. But this one got to feel good. :D:D

    May all who struggle feel a little break in the clouds.
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  11. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

    full of grace

    This is a beautiful phrase to introduce to a Protestant brother or sister, especially if you use a Strong's concordance to look at the original Greek: kexaritwmenh. As mentioned in the above video clip at the 3:50 mark the phrase, full of grace, is in the perfect tense and the passive voice. The passive voice points out that Mary is the recipient of the grace. Strong's concordance describes perfect tense as follows:

    ...an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.

    So when Gabriel says full of grace, he is not speaking of Mary's soon-to-be motherhood, but addressing Mary for who she has always been. The fact that this gift of grace doesn't need to be repeated implies the sense of fullness- it is a done deal. :ROFLMAO:

    Knowing this not only points to the Immaculate Conception, but conveys that full of grace is a much more literal translation than "highly favored." Unfortunately, it saddens me that modern Catholic translations have thrown full of grace into the dustbin.:( Maybe there is a theologian among us that can clearly explain why, but as of right now I see no reason why they have chosen that diminishing change.

    Anyway, I am always overjoyed to see that the Word of God is the original source of our understanding of Our Lady's great dignity!

    Hail, full of grace...
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  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Its wonderful to see how far back people were able to realise this Dogma was true and how through people like Blessed Duns Scotus they came to the truth of the matter. But how, sometimes even great saints failed to see it. Even now people doubt the final Marian Dogmas which I believe will be declared Mary as Mediatrix , Co Redemptrix and Advocate. The argument against these final Dogmas is pretty well down the same road as the arguments folks made against the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception that it is going overboard. But of course it is not.
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  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Sadly Tara I still feel myself lost in Devotion to Divine Will. I sense it is true but it just looses me. May God instruct my mind and heart in this.
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  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I sometimes think that the Holy Spirit , being something of a trickster and practical joker does not like being nailed down with exact dates. So many of them have been proved wrong.

    The life and sermons of the Great St Vincent Ferrer ( 'The Angel of the Apocalypse') seems to be a case in point. He preached through all of Europe by special dispensation of the then Holy Father that the End of the World was upon us , yet here we are still here. :)

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think mysteries such as the mysteries of the Rosary are a bit like a peat fire in a cottage in a cold dark winters night. We can come out of the cold and the dark and sit down and regard the fire and its beauty. We can warm ourselves with its heat. We can smell the sweet perfume of its heat. We can even do practical things with it like cooking . The fire of God , which are these mysteries are Eternal. We shall spend all our Eternities regarding them and sitting round together in heaven cosying up to them and learning from them. Even the Great Spirits the seven angels who stand before the Throne of God like St Michael and St Gabriel do not exhaust these fires nor shall they ever exhaust them though they spend a thousand Eternities sitting in front of them. I find this in the mysteries of the rosary that they are forever new. Sometimes I come in front of one of them to warm myself and am startled to find myself as though starting right all over again in encountering one.

    So for the Great Rosary of the Churches liturgical year. As we swing round again to the Great Feast of the Immaculate Conception I find myself whispering once again, 'I never knew, I never knew' , as though it were soem new fire in a new cottage of the Church.

    I think one day when the Triumph of the Church has been obtained we will l have new mysteries of the Rosary centred entirely on the Marian Dogmas. ..and that these mysteries will be called The Mysteries of the Triumph. One fo these mysteries will be The Immaculate Conception and Mary as Theotokos, Mother of God. I will leave you to guess what the other three will be. ;)

    So we will have the Joyful, the Sorrowful, the Glorious and the Luminous Mysteries, plus at the end the Mysteries of the Triumph. These will be the last mysteries granted by the Church by a future Pope.


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  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It's wonderful Terry, how you so naturally like the beads of the rosary itself you tie one great mystery into an understanding of another. Hence the mystery of the Annunciation ties into a greater understaning of the Immacualte Conception.

    Our Lady, Queen of the Rosary pray for us!!

  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

  18. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    God is Order. He knows exact dates. Stars, sun, moon, Earth know exact dates. Only human being, who lives in spiritual disorder, fabricates wrong dates. And such man is either impatient like me or obsessed by Evil like false prophets.
  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    You are not evil. But when God is doing the cooking He may not want us looking over His shoulder all the time. ;):)
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  20. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Curiosity is nothing more than a little trust, and it is very stinking pepper for the Cook.
    On the other hand, the impatience can be perverted or justifiable. Perverted, if man hates and avoids a pain. Justifiable, if this pain is caused by perdition of the souls. But also impatience, evil or less evil, is the little trust in God, and this is my sin.
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