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The Coming Chastisement.

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Mac, Nov 26, 2016.

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You think a chastisement is upon us?

  1. You think it is decades away?

    7 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. You think the church has never been better?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. You think a chastisement is upon us?

    23 vote(s)
    54.8%
  4. You think a chastisement has been underway for decades?

    16 vote(s)
    38.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. As ever we are all free to accept or reject private Revelation. Again yours is not the whole story Mac or the only way of seeing Amsterdam but I am too tired to take your bait. You know I believe in this happening.

    Once again you are trying to present the Catholic Church in a bad light compared to the one with which your SSPX colours itself. There is only one Catholic Church. You see the church of today as modernist and therefore heretical. This view, of course, is not Catholic.

    There is a difference between being "Catholic" and being "A Catholic".

    As I said before your devotional practises are exemplary but your direction - away from Rome - not so good.

    Despite your contention to the contrary the "whole approval thing" is intact. The relationship between Rome and SSPX, sadly, is not.

    Again I know that SSPX does not like Amsterdam. BTW the requested title was not "Our Lady of All Nations" but "The Lady of All Nations." Of course you know this because SSPX objects to the real title.

    I am surprised this is unacceptable to you because such status is wholly appropriate to one who alone can save us from what lies ahead. "The" indicates a singular rank to which no other can rise.
     
    Byron likes this.
  2. I don't have a computer at home but will post more tomorrow on this, getting back to the matter of the process of approval. Meanwhile Mac, perhaps you can illuminate the objections that SSPX have to Amsterdam.
     
  3. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    This is developing into an interesting thread although it perhaps should have a new heading titled 'Akita', yet Akita does inform us of the 'Coming Chastisement'.

    I find it particularly interesting as I find myself on Mac's 'side' for a change! I sense a slight defensiveness in some of Joe's comments which are not unconnected with Mac's support for Akita! But Joe makes a forceful and appropriate response to Dolours negativity.

    There are many things that link Akita with Garabandal. One of them is the overwhelming documentary evidence they provide for their authenticity. But another similarity is the varied response from the hierarchy to both events.

    Of course, one of the significant reasons that the traditionalist groups like the Akita apparitions is their support for proper reverence to the Holy Eucharist and, in particular, to the reception of the Holy Eucharist on the tongue as opposed to in the hand. Unfortunately, this aspect has encouraged the traditional groups to try to draw Sister Sasagawa into their own 'fold' which includes people who are opposed to Vatican II and even Pope Francis. And they try to use Sister Sasagawa to promote their agenda which I feel sure she does not share.
     
  4. josephite

    josephite Powers


    Person of the year. So appropriate!

    [​IMG]


    Dearest Mother You are our person of every year, of every month, of every week, of every day, of every hour, of every minute and of every second!
    We Love you!


    Please take our hearts and our souls and cover them with your Immaculate heart and Your Immaculate soul and present them to Jesus as a gift to His Most Loving and Infinite Sacred Heart!


    Hail Most Pure Virgin and Queen Of Heaven!

    Thank you for giving us Jesus!
    Thank you for Loving God with your whole being!

    Thank you Dearest Mother We Love You!

    My Queen and my mother!
     
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Sorry, Joe, I didn't mean any offence to you and certainly not to the Blessed Mother. I think that I have explained to you in the past my reservations about any image other than that of Our Lord appearing to get pride of place before the cross, even the image of His Blessed Mother. I should have given "mend our ways" as an example of the good to be taken from Akita rather than giving the impression that it's the only good (I'm really under some pressure at the moment and only dipping into the forum for a bit of respite so probably shouldn't have posted when short of time to collect my thoughts). To be honest, I would have a problem with that particular image of Our Lady even without its positioning in front of the cross.

    I have no qualms in saying that it would take more than weeping statues to convince me that Heaven is communicating with us because we don't worship statues - not even statues of Our Lady no matter how visually appealing they are. I believe that it took more than the weeping statue to convince Bishop Ito that the apparition was genuine. I certainly hope so because it wouldn't be beyond Satan's power to make tears flow from a statue.

    I honestly don't know whether a Bishop can overrule an investigation by a previous Bishop, and I don't know enough about Akita to be making pronouncements about it. I'm merely trying to play a kind of an unofficial devil's advocate on behalf of Bishop Ito's successor. At the same time, I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm casting aspersions on Sr. Agnes. All I'm trying to say is that there could be any number of reasons the second bishop went against the apparitions. Even in the case of Fatima, Sr. Lucy's subsequent private apparitions have no official approval from the Church.

    Something could have happened afterwards to cause the second Bishop to doubt and oppose the apparitions. We just don't know and I think it unfair to cast him as some kind of enemy of Our Lady when we don't have all the facts. Being the beneficiary of an apparition from Heaven doesn't mean that we will be saints for the rest of our lives. Also, I think I remember reading that Sr. Agnes claimed to have had further or ongoing apparitions or locutions that had not been the subject of the investigations. Didn't Bishop Ito's approval only cover the apparitions that had been the subject of the two investigations? Do we know for sure that the second Bishop actually tried to overturn the earlier approval? He could have been trying to deal with subsequent difficulties.

    I'm sorry now that I got involved in this discussion because I don't want to cause offence and get into arguments especially during Advent. Weariness is also making me use less than diplomatic language. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
    Harper and josephite like this.
  6. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    What I find interesting, not just on the topic of Akita, is how many faithful Catholics often times reject on the surface what they themselves have not studied. It seems all to popular even on MOG these day's. I don't see this as the work of God or his Blessed Mother, but rather the evil one sowing seeds of doubt in what God has given the Church to warn and fortify the faith for the confusing times we are now in.

    When I first come across Akita in the early 80's, I bought the books coming out to read, study and pray about it. I found it most believable at the time and I still do. Back then I was in Opus Dei and our leader was an the head ophthalmologist at the University of Iowa. He was headed to Japan to give seminars on his area of his profession. I asked him if he had heard of Akita, which he had not. I told him what I knew about it then and suggested if he have time to visit there. So he and his wife, while in Tokyo, Japan took the 2 hour train ride into the hills of Akita. He was warmly welcomed by Sister Agnes and they spent several hours visiting with her. He brought me back a 8x10 picture of our Lady of Akita and was convinced himself that the Blessed Mother appeared there.

    I am not sure why it is so hard for some to now accept that our Lady appeared in Akita, as well as so many other parts of the world. It's as if discernment through study and prayer does not happen. One the surface, well intentioned faithful throw the dice to determine whether heaven is speaking in any particular place and now are even doubting her appartions and messages of church approved ones. Very unfortunate and very sad is our Lady because of this.

    O Mary Conceived without Sin, Pray for Us who have recourse to Thee
     
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  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Indeed, Dolours.

    Yes, Dolours, I can see that is what you are trying to do but why? Why are you trying to defend Bishop Ito's successor about whom you know nothing? And yes, I'm afraid you did cast aspersions on Sister Agnes.

    Apologies accepted, Dolours, but if you are weary, why do you feel the need to continually post negatively about anything to do with apparitions?
     
  8. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    I agree with you about not knowing if Satan is responsible for making a particular statue "weep" and I am certain that Bishop Ito would not have approved Sister Agnes' apparitions based on this alone and there was so much more evidence than this alone. The Holy Office has stated that this particular weeping statue is worthy of belief, I believe it is possible that they have stated this because of the cross that was made so perfectly on the statue's hand. IMO Satan wouldn't be running around imprinting crosses on statues. The other thing that I believe is quite important here is that Sister Agnes was also receiving the stigmata. She had a cross appear on Thursdays and by Saturday it would be gone, I am not certain how long this was occurring but I would think since Bishop Ito was a witness to this it must have played a part in his approval. What was the "new" bishop actually witness to, probably nothing, correct? He came on the scene when everything had ended (right?). Very sad.

    We were discussing on another thread when the chastisement occurs, it must occur before the Era of Peace or it would not be a called a chastisement. A chastisement is a tool used in making a correction of a particular behavior. When Christ returns after the Era of Peace there is no time for correction, it's over at that point, we get judged and that is it. We all die at that point. (I woke up with some clarity this morning.)

    Also, I think it is obvious that the Vatican has shied away from anything related to the chastisement for fear of what people may do.

    Dolours, I consider you a gift, I truly mean that. You push me(us) to seek the truth and you do it in a gentle way. I am certain I don't have everything "right" but I thank you for making me really think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
    Byron likes this.
  9. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    its when the vision becomes an obsession that it turns evil. There is a place for visions and seers...but it is a very small place. One should listen heed and move on. Some people get enamored and then it becames a fixation. It always come back to three thing... Prayers, Sacraments and Pennance. And yes, the Rosary is part of that. Nobody is perfectly educated on visions. Most books are biased in many ways.

    But who am i to say... :)

    Brother al
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  10. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Archangels

    Thank you, Dolores. I had hoped that someone would step up and provide for Sister.
    Oh how our saints suffer for following the will of God.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Messages of Our Lady in Akita, Japan

    Serious Messages for the world, like at Fatima

    In 1973, the Blessed Virgin Mary gave Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa in Akita, Japan, three Messages through a statue of Mary. Bathed in a brilliant light, the statue became alive and spoke with a voice of indescribable beauty. Her Guardian Angel also appeared and taught her to pray.

    [​IMG]
    The wooden statue, about 3 feet high, had been carved by an artist on the request of the Sisters of the Institute of the Handmaids of the Eucharist, founded by the local Bishop, Most Rev. John Shojiro Ito, of the Diocese of Niigata. This statue, from which the voice came, wept 101 times over a course of several years, from January 4, 1975, to September 15, 1981, the Feast of Our Lady of Seven Sorrows. It also perspired abundantly, and the perspiration sent out a sweet perfume. Its right palm bled from a wound that had the form of a cross.

    Hundreds of people witnessed many of these events. Scientific analysis of blood and tears from the statue, provided by Professor Sagisaka of the faculty of Legal Medicine of the University of Akita, confirmed that the blood, tears, and perspiration were real human tears, sweat, and blood. They came from three blood groups: O, B, and AB.

    Sister Agnes also has the stigmata on the right palm. A Korean woman with terminal brain cancer received immediate healing while praying before the statute in 1981. The miracle was confirmed by Dr. Tong-Woo-Kim of the St. Paul Hospital in Seoul and Fr. Theisen, President of the Ecclesiastical Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Seoul. The second miracle was the complete cure of the total deafness of Sister Agnes.

    Miraculous events

    The events began on June 12-14, 1973. During these days, Sister Agnes saw a brilliant light coming from the tabernacle. On Thursday, June 28, eve of the Feast of the Sacred Heart, Sister Agnes again saw a blinding light from the Blessed Sacrament, rays of light, and a multitude of angels surrounding the altar in adoration before the Host.

    In the evening, another mysterious event occurred. While praying in the chapel, Sister Agnes felt as though something pierced the palm of her left hand. There, in the center of her palm, were two red scratches in the form of a cross. As days went by, the pain became increasingly intense.

    This phenomenon recurs every week, and Bishop Ito himself witnesses it: on Thursday evening, the wound is still dried out, but it begins to swell up, and scratches form on the skin. On Friday morning, blood flows and impregnates the bandages of gauze. On Saturday morning, the wound stops bleeding and becomes dry again. This phenomenon lasted the whole month of July.

    On July 6, the Guardian Angel appeared to Sister Agnes, and said: “Do not fear. I am the one who is with you and watches over you. Do not fear. Pray with fervor not only because of your sins, but in reparation for those of all men. The world today wounds the Most Sacred Heart of Our Lord by its ingratitudes and injuries. The wounds of Mary are much deeper and sorrowful than yours. Let us go and pray together in the chapel.”

    Messages of Mary

    In the chapel, the statue of the Virgin Mary came to life, and a voice of indescribable beauty struck her totally-deaf ears. This was to be the first Message of Mary:

    “My daughter, My novice, you have obeyed Me well in abandoning all to follow Me. Is the infirmity of your ears painful? Your deafness will be healed, be sure. Be patient. It is the last trial. Does the wound of your hand cause you to suffer? Pray in reparation for the sins of men. Each person in this community is My irreplaceable daughter. Do you say well the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist? Then, let us pray it together:

    “Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, truly present in the Holy Eucharist, I consecrate my body and soul to be entirely one with Your Heart, being sacrificed at every instant on all the altars of the world and giving praise to the Father, pleading for the coming of His Kingdom. Please receive this humble offering of myself. Use me as You will for the glory of the Father and the salvation of souls.

    “Most Holy Mother of God. Never let me be separated from Your Divine Son. Please defend and protect me as Your special child. Amen.”

    As her Guardian Angel had told her, a cross-shaped wound, similar to that of Sister Agnes, appeared in the right hand of the statue of the Blessed Virgin, and blood started to flow.

    On August 3, 1973, the First Friday of the month, Sister Agnes received the second Message from Mary:

    “My daughter, My novice, do you love the Lord? If you love the Lord, listen to what I have to say to you. It is very important. You will convey it to your superior.

    “Many men in this world afflict the Lord. I desire souls to console Him to soften the anger of the Heavenly Father. I wish, with My Son, for souls who will repair, by their suffering and their poverty, for the sinners and ingrates.

    “In order that the world might know His anger, the Heavenly Father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. With My Son, I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the Father. I have prevented the coming of calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him and form a cohort of victim souls.

    “Prayer, penance, and courageous sacrifices can soften the Father's anger. I desire this also from your community, that it love poverty, that it sanctify itself and pray in reparation for the ingratitude and outrages of so many men. Recite the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist with awareness of its meaning; put it into practice: offer (whatever God may send) in reparation for sins. Let each one endeavour, according to her capacity and position, to offer herself entirely to the Lord.

    “Even in a secular institute, prayer is necessary. Already souls who wish to pray are on the way to being gathered. Without attaching too much attention to the form, be faithful and fervent in prayer to console the Master.”

    It was on Saturday, October 13, the anniversary day of the last Apparition of the Virgin Mary to the three children of Fatima, that Mary gave to Sister Agnes Her third Message, the most important and serious one:

    “If men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the Bishops and the priests.

    “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    “The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of My sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them.

    “...Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able to still save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in Me will be saved.”

    The last Sunday of May, 1982, during the Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, Sister Agnes was completely cured from her deafness.

    Approval of the local Bishop

    After having himself been an eyewitness of the events, and having carefully investigated them for years, Most Rev. John Shojiro Ito, Bishop of Niigata (the diocese Akita belongs to) declared the events of Akita, Japan, to be of supernatural origin, and authorized throughout the entire diocese the veneration of the Holy Mother of Akita, in a long message which he ordered to be read in every parish of his diocese on Easter Sunday, April 22, 1984.. He said: “The Message of Akita is the Message of Fatima.”

    Approval of Rome

    Bishop Ito went to Rome a third time in June of 1988 to seek the opinion of the Holy See. “I was worried because of the seriousness of the Message,” he said. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reassured Bishop Ito that he had acted properly, and gave definitive judgement on the Akita events and Messages as reliable and worthy of belief.
     
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  12. Some obsessions are magnificent. Catholics are obsessed with reverence for The Sacred and Immaculate Hearts. These arose from private revelation and visions. The world is now full of images of Our Lord and Our Lady with their Hearts exposed for all to see. May we never grow tired of this obsession.
     
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  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I'm feeling maybe I've been a bit harsh with Dolours after seeing two posts speaking appreciatively of her! I think this may be connected with differences in the way male and female minds work! I've never been married so I think I don't understand ladies very well. :D
     
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  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I would add conversion to your list, FS. Most apparitions are about bringing souls back to belief and the practice of the faith.
     
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  15. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Few, few so very few have even heard, much less studied our Blessed Mothers messages sent from heaven. I don't think for a minute that out Lord feels it is a "fixation" to read of and speak of Mary's messages of love and admonition of the Father's plans. The Mother of God forum, of all places, where hundreds view every day is the best place to spread heavens messages loud and clear. With an open heart, those visiting MOG will read, study, pray and hopefully spread what God's plans expressed by his loving mother is telling us.

    Far greater is our need to hear and spread heavens messages on the MOG forum than to use it as a sound board against our pope and church. The confusion regarding these two areas would not be a point of contention had the faithful been taught and applied heavens messages for our time of conversion, repentance and prayer.
     
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  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    “If men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the Bishops and the priests."
    I forget which website I saw it on but they stated that the Sign left by Son is the Eucharist, that is incorrect. The Sign left by Son is the cross, the Eucharist is not a sign it is of Christ himself. Therefore, the Blessed Mother is saying that we will no longer have the Eucharist available to us if this occurs.
     
  17. Of course it was not just the tears of the statue that convinced Bishop Ito. For years the entire phenomena was subjected to rigorous scrutiny and advice and witness from many quarters and surrendered in the prayer and contemplation of the good Cardinal. As for the statue putting Mary before the cross - one must remember that it was based on the Image of The Lady of All Nations/ Mother of All Peoples. To my way of think Alita was thus sure confirmation that Amsterdam was authentic. We Catholics have always believed in the efficacy of going through Mary to Jesus. It is the cross of Jesus that confers and completes the true meaning of this statue. It is the cross that makes this statue different that makes it clear we are dealing with a new stage in the developememt of Faith. No other Image of Mary is depicted like this. She is the one to lead us into battle and She alone has been given charge of our rescue from the the storm that is gathering. As such She is no longer just Mary - She is The Lady of All Nations.
     
  18. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    I believe that you are saying that it is wrong to put the vision before the message which the vision is giving us, I think that is good advice if I am understanding you correctly. It may be the case for some people that the vision itself is a fixation but for very few. In my opinion a lot of the messages have never been widely distributed the way that should have been but I do understand some of the hurdles in doing that. As for MOG members, I think that many here I trying to help others get over the first hurdle which is to accept that the vision is from heaven.
     
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  19. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    :)

    So hard to address the mystical. It opens up so many Christian points.

    Good stuff

    May Gods Will be Done
     
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  20. Mario

    Mario Powers

    From the second message of Akita:

    I have prevented the coming of calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him and form a cohort of victim souls.

    Lord Jesus, I thank you for this cohort of victims and ask you to bathe them in Your Love! Accept the sacrifices and rosaries of the members of the MOG forum as an expression of our love for You and your Mother!:love: Maranatha!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
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