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Discussion in 'Coffee House' started by Dean, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Me, neither.
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    We already know what will happen. Our Lord and Our Lady have already told us.

    Our Lady...
    ''In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

    None of this has happened.

    Our Lord,

    Himself confided to her that He would not convert Russia unless the consecration were done, “Because I want My whole Church to recognize that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, so that it may extend its cult later on, and put the devotion to this Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.” Sister Lucy has explained that because Russia is a well-defined territory, the conversion of Russia after its consecration to the Immaculate Heart would be undeniable proof that the conversion resulted from the consecration and nothing else. The establishment in the world of devotion to the Immaculate Heart would thus be confirmed by God Himself in the most dramatic manner.

    This certainly hasn't happened either.
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Is that it?

    The era of peace has come and gone?

    And I didn't notice it!

    I was so looking forward to it!
    SgCatholic and Mac like this.
  4. josephite

    josephite Powers

    The following was all taken from the thread....."pope Francis to meet patriarch-kirill.

    Joe Crosier [who is a guest now whatever that means] says..........

    While the evidence suggests to me that, despite protests from Church authorities, the Consecration of Russia as requested has not been done, we still have the assurance that it will be done albeit late. Some think this late consecration has been done. I am not so sure. With today's technology it would be simple to email or even fax every bishop and simply ask them to agree to a consecration of Russia in union with the Pope to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Perhaps this agreement will be confirmed in Russia and the Consecration will be done during the Pope's visit to Moscow together with the Orthodox Bishops and this will give the desired (by heaven) public recognition that the Triumph really will belong to Mary. Perhaps this Consecration will facilitate the Aviso which is a major stage in Her Triumph. These are just some of my thoughts and am sure they are not original. They may even be rubbish but just remember Our Lady of Lourdes made her appearances at a rubbish dump.....the worst kind.. ...for hospital waste. Hopefully She will not stray too far from my rubbish dump of a head. She may even help me clean up the mess.:rolleyes::)

    My response........

    If what you say is correct.......then how long will this period of peace last and what will it look like? Will for example Isis be a problem? or will China and North Korea be a problem? Will abortion cease? Will pornography still be a problem? Are all peoples and countries going to welcome this triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

    If so then we won't need the Chastisment. And that would be wonderful!

    However I believe the 1984 consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was accomplished by St JP11 and the college of Bishops around the world just as sister Lucia had testified and I also believe we have had that period of peace and now we await the warning and Miracle and chasitisment. The world is going to be at its worst just as the Garabandals seers have predicted. And the world at its worst does not sound like the period of peace promised by Our Lady at Fatima.

    I also believe that the reign of the Immaculate Heart of Mary which will reign beside Our Lords Sacred Heart will come after the Chastisment and then there will be not 'just be a period of peace' but true and lasting peace!

    These are my thoughts from my very own garbage dump.:cool:
    You don't own all garbage dumps Joe!;)

    In a following post;

    Our Lady at Fatima stated.......

    "If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecution of the Church. The good will be martyed, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be destroyed...But in the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, Russia will be converted, and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world".

    When Our Lady mentions the peace she promised after the consecration of Russia

    she clearly states that it is a 'period of peace' and not the reign of Her Immaculate heart;

    to me this means it is only an interim or temporary period of peace, not the lasting true peace that will come when Her Immaculate Heart Triumphs and at that time satan will be chained in hell, I believe, according to revelations.

    Whenever I have stated on the MoG forum that I believe the 1984 consecration of Russia was late but was accomplished according to Sister Lucia, I am bombarded with....."there’s been so much evil in the world how can you believe the world has had a 30 year period of peace, etc", but did Our Lady say that satan would not be active..... No.... she just promised a period of peace to the world after the accepted consecration.

    In your post above you suggest that the consecration of Russia may be accomplished soon. If we look at the prophesies of Our Lady at Akita and at Garabandal the Warning, Miracle and Chastisement of the entire world will mean that a period of peace will be hard to squeeze in!

    especially as evil will still be very active, I think, and according to many Catholics on the MoG forum the promised period of peace means that evil will not be active in the world at all!

    To me this is a misnomer because if that were true the triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart would have been consummated at the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart, but she did not say nor indicate that the Consecration of Russia would consumate the reign Of Her Immaculate heart! It is but a stepping stone, to the reign of Her Immaculate heart in my opinion!
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    davidtlig likes this.
  5. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Dang, I must have blinked too. These poor people who believe this had no expectation of Mary's Triumph to be recognized by every human being alive. Is this really what people who know Fatima messages expected? For the Triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart and the era of peace to have been fulfilled without the world realizing what God intended to do through his mother? Nope, it hasn't taken place, but when it does God's mother will be known world wide as the cause of the era of peace through her Triumph over evil.
    HeavenlyHosts and SgCatholic like this.
  6. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Josephite, I believe you have managed to capture the crucial elements of this topic in your post.

    The promise was for a period of peace after the Consecration was made. Sister Lucia explains in the short section in the video I posted how people have misunderstood what the 'period of peace' meant. The overnight collapse of Soviet Communism was indeed the miracle achieved through the 1984 Consecration.

    Secondly, I think you are spot on pointing out that the triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart has to be recognized as quite separate to the 'period of peace'.

    My own view of the future is that the Warning will bring back many to faith but that the return will not be sufficient to prevent a major chastisement. But after the chastisement will come the triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.
    josephite likes this.
  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Robert Moynihan's latest newsletter provides further support to the view expressed in the earlier post on this thread (at http://motheofgod.com/threads/russia.10523/#post-171251 ) that Russia is indeed converting to a real Christianity. Here is what Mr Moynihan (who has frequent contact with Russia) reports:

    Nicholas in Russia

    An extraordinary religious event occurred in Moscow yesterday.


    The relics of St. Nicholas (photo above), the Christian saint more revered than any other by the Russian Orthodox people, arrived in Moscow from Bari, Italy, where they have been kept for more than 1,000 years.

    They were carried to Russia by a delegation led by Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, the "Foreign Minister" of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    The relics will remain in Russia for more than two months, in Moscow and, after July 12, in St. Petersburg.

    It is expected that, during the next 10 weeks, several million ordinary Russians will stand in lines for hours to venerate the saint's relics.

    What does this tell us about Russia?

    Many in the West (and many even in Russia), have expressed grave doubts about an alleged "spiritual revival" in Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 -- 26 years ago.

    They say the revival is in some way fraudulent, a fake, sponsored by a cynical, un-believing state power (the post-Soviet government now led by former KGB-chief Vladimir Putin). The Russian state is alleged to believe that it can use the appearance of a revival of religious faith for its own sinister purposes.

    Are the doubters correct?

    Is the religious renewal of Russia, the construction of an average of three churches a day for the past 26 years, somehow a fraud, a fake?

    I have argued for 18 years, since 1999, that the revival, the renewal, of religious faith in Russia is profoundly authentic.

    At the same time I perceive the force of the counter-arguments, and the heavy weight of the counter-evidence, ranging from the widespread recourse to abortion to the embrace by many younger Russians of Western secular, "post-Christian" values.

    Into the midst of this debate come the relics of St. Nicholas.

    And the reaction of the Russian people to the relics is, to me, an additional piece of evidence in a large mosaic suggesting that the return to religious faith in Russia is real, though occurring under the profound weight of both the Soviet (1917-1991) and post-Soviet (1991-present) time.

    A Gentle Breeze

    I sat in an unstable motorboat sailing across the wide Volga River near Kazan in 2001 to visit an island where hundreds of Christians had been executed. All that remained was a field of grass.

    I saw the return to Russia of the holy icon of Kazan, in August 2004, after it had been kept for 11 years in the private chambers of Pope John Paul II, who wished to carry it back to Russia himself, but was unable to.

    I saw the building of a cathedral in Kazan which stands where there was once a tobacco factory.

    I saw the return to Russia of the mortal remains of St. Elizabeth Federovna (whose sister was the Empress Alexandra, the wife of the last Tsar), from the Garden of Gethsemane, also in 2004. She was executed by the Bolsheviks in 1918, on the day after her sister, her husband and five children were also executed.

    I saw a Russian choir come to Rome in 2007 to sing of the passion of Jesus Christ on a stage where the entire back wall was an enormous icon of Christ.

    I saw the same choir come to America in 2007 in December to sing of the birth of Jesus Christ at Christmastime. They sang in the Catholic National Shrine in Washington, in a church in New York, and in Memorial Chapel at Harvard in Cambridge -- in the same Harvard Yard where Alexander Solzhenitsyn gave the Commencement Address in 1978.

    I saw the Italian laywoman, Immacolata Solaro del Borgo, carry relics of saints to Kazan in 2009, despite old age and many physical ailments, surrounded by hundreds of ordinary Russians, some of whom wept as they saw her pass by carrying her gifts.

    I have watched as dozens and hundreds of young scholars have begun to study in the new theological academies of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    And I have listened as many Russian believers have expressed their concern that the West has abandoned the faith we once held as our most precious treasure.

    The silent dignity of the Russian people as they venerate the relics of St. Nicholas moves me deeply.


    josephite, Byron and Dolours like this.
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Reading through the latest posts here I just had some random thoughts.

    If the 1984 consecration was accepted, perhaps we were given a period of peace in relation to how well we responded to the call of Heaven. Meaning, we didn't respond very well at all, so perhaps our period of peace was not as stunning as it might have been if the consecration was done in, say 1929 when it was asked for. If we are dating the "timeclock" from Pope Leo XIII's vision in the 1880's, then 1984 is pretty last minute. And perhaps not even naming Russia, etc. added to the lack of a stunning period of peace. Heaven may have been generous in giving us as much as we got.

    Also, is there anything that says that the period of peace and the conversion of Russia to Catholicism have to be absolutely in lockstep with each other time-wise?

    I think most of us probably agree that the fall of the U.S.S.R. in 1991 along with the explosion of the Soviet naval base in the mid-80's were pretty amazing occurrences we could definitely link to the consecration of 1984. Christmas day 1991 was the last day the hammer and sickle flew over the Kremlin. Anyone who lived through that period remembers how surreal it was.

    I don't have any answers, just food for thought...
    josephite, AED, Byron and 3 others like this.
  9. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Compare the respect shown here for the relics of St. Nicholas by Russians who value their Orthodox heritage:

    with these darlings of the Western media:

    The lyrics of their anti-Putin "song" are listed beneath the video on Youtube. Does anyone remember CNN (the Democratic Party's mouthpiece) heaping praise on those women for their hatred of Putin during the Western-backed demonstrations against his election?
  10. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    If Stalin had known what the Moscow of the 21st century would be like... I almost cried of joy watching this.

    AED, Dolours, Byron and 1 other person like this.
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Here is part 1 of Oliver Stone's 4 part documentary on Putin:

  12. Don_D

    Don_D Archangels

    Its bitter irony that the darlings of the western media who had such admiration for the USSR now have bitter hatred for Russia since it's return to Orthodoxy. Coincidence?
    Byron, AED and Dolours like this.
  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Parts 2 and 3:

  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Why More Than a Million Russians Have Lined Up to See a Piece Of the Rib of Saint Nicholas

    They have come to pray for the health of loved ones. They have come to ask for help to pass a tough exam, or to just get by in hard times. But mostly, they have come to be part of a once-in-a-millennium spiritual event: Saint Nicholas has come to town.

    DAVID FILIPOV | 01 JULY 2017
    Photo: Sputnik/ Grigory Sysoev

    Since relics of Russia’s most beloved saint were brought to Moscow on May 21, more than a million people have waited in lines lasting as long as 10 hours to spend just an instant at the gilded ark that holds one of his ribs.

    This mass act of devotion provides a snapshot of how important the Orthodox Church has become to Russians’ contemporary sense of identity.

    Lines to see the saint Russians call “the miracle worker” have stretched up to five miles from the giant, onion-domed Christ the Savior Cathedral, a reconstruction of a cathedral demolished by the Soviets in 1931.

    Some waited to pray for a miracle to Saint Nicholas, whose life inspired the legend of Santa Claus. But for many, the arrival of the relics, on loan for the first time from the Italian city where they rested for 930 years, was in itself a miracle worth witnessing.

    “It’s important to be close to the grace of Saint Nicholas,” said Denis Knyazyev, 32, who drove four hours from his home west of Moscow to stand in line for Saint Nicholas last week. “All saints are special, but this is the one most dear to us.”

    What they see at the ark is an icon of Saint Nicholas under a panel of bulletproof glass, with a crescent-shaped opening in the middle through which the bone is visible. As priests and burly security guards look on, a choir chants a harmonious prayer that echoes through the cavernous, ornate cathedral. But the music is drowned out by the stentorian instructions of volunteers in fluorescent green vests.

    They warn worshipers to cross themselves before they reach the ark and to have their prayers ready, to avoid backing up the line. As soon as the faithful bend to kiss the glass, a volunteer grabs them by the shoulders and nudges them, usually lightly, toward the exit. Those who linger get a special shove and an order to move on. Another volunteer wipes the glass with a cloth.

    But if this brusque treatment bothered anyone, it did not show. People coming out of the cathedral on a recent Friday expressed something resembling a combination of bliss over what they had seen and relief that they had survived the ordeal.

    “We were so afraid we wouldn’t make it,” a pregnant woman said in tears, as her husband comforted her.

    Danila, a 14-year-old Muscovite, said he had “a magical feeling.” His mother, who like many of the people who visited the relics did not give her name to an American reporter, added that “it was like God had heard me.”

    More than 70 percent of Russians identify themselves as Orthodox Christians, more than double the number at the time of the 1991 Soviet collapse. Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has aligned his vision for his country as a bastion of conservative values with that of the Russian Orthodox Church, visited the relics the day they arrived in Moscow.

    But many Russians consider themselves only “partially religious,” said Natalya Zorkaya, a researcher for the Levada Center, Russia’s independent pollster. “The interest in the relics represents a desire to become part of the process, to participate in an event organized not just by the Orthodox Church but also by the state.”

    Russia is slowly starting to come out of a recession, and people frustrated by low living standards or corruption-ridden government are always looking for somewhere to turn. About 2 million wrote letters to Putin for his annual “Direct Line” call-in show this month to ask for things such as higher salaries, better roads and improved health care.

    But people go to see Saint Nicholas not just because they are frustrated and hoping for a miracle that Putin can’t give them. The experience really appears to make them feel like they are part of something bigger.

    Zorkaya, the pollster, agreed, saying, “This is a manifestation of a certain state identity with religious coloring.”

    The government-linked VTsIOM polling agency found that 10 percent of visitors to the relics ask for something more specific than good health for themselves and loved ones. One of those was Ruslan, 20, a law student who said that he had come because “I’m in the middle of exams and I hope it goes well.” Another woman who rushed by quickly said she was praying “to get by in times like these.”

    Russians have stood in lines by the hundreds of thousands to witness religious relics . More than 3 million people saw a belt thought to have belonged to the Virgin Mary when it came to Russia in 2011.

    But Saint Nicholas is special, said Maria Korovina, head of the Orthodox Church’s media center for special events, because of the role he plays in Russians’ lives — and the way these relics got here.

    “For 930 years, no one has seen them,” she said. “This is as though Saint Nicholas himself has come to Moscow.”

    Nicholas, who died in A.D. 343, was the bishop of Myra, which is now in southern Turkey. One legendary attribute that led to the story of Santa Claus was his habit of giving gifts in secret.

    Believers say his remains produce a liquid called manna, or myrrh, said to have healing powers. In 1087, Italian sailors spirited the bones to Bari, Italy, where the remains have been kept in a crypt ever since.

    The decision to remove a rib and send it to Russia was the result of a historic meeting last year between Pope Francis and Russian Orthodox leader Patriarch Kirill, the first such encounter since the 11th century Great Schism that divided Christianity.

    The remains will be taken to St. Petersburg on July 12 and returned to Italy at the end of the month.

    On a recent Sunday evening, as the line meandered along a fenced-off sidewalk on the Moscow River embankment, through well-guarded police checkpoints and past well-stocked food kiosks and portable toilets, people wrote down prayers for the health of their loved ones to while away the hours.

    Some fretted over whether they would get in before the cathedral closed for the night. But there was no need to pray for a miracle. The doors stay open until the last worshiper in line has made it inside.

    Natalya Abbakumova contributed to this report.


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