Discussion in 'The mystical and Paranormal' started by Advocate, Oct 16, 2017.
Just starting a thread on speculation as to the order of events, not their dates
One thing I have been curious about lately is the "Triumph of Revolution", The Pope going to Moscow, and The Warning. I found some interesting things.
Bl. Pope Pius IX - “There will come a great sign that will fill the world with awe. But this will occur only after the triumph of a revolution during which the Church will undergo ordeals which are beyond description.”
So, this prophecy indicates that a "triumph of revolution" precedes a great sign. Is the sign being referred to here The Permanent Sign as was spoken of at Garabandal? If so, then we know that The Warning Precedes The Great Sign.
And then we have this statement from "The Finger of God" by Albrecht Weber:
“If you are not allowed to tell me the exact year of the Warning, perhaps you could tell me approximately when it will happen.”
“Yes it will be that time when the world will most need it.”
“When is that?”
“When Russia will unexpectedly and suddenly overrun and overwhelm a great part of the free world. God does not want this to happen so quickly. In any case the Warning will come when you will see that Holy Mass cannot be celebrated freely anymore; then it will be that the world will most need the intevetnion of God”
“The pope will go to Russia, to Moscow. As soon as he returns to the Vatican, hostilities will break out in different parts of Europe.”
[The source for this information was also requested. Mr. Weber responded: "Conchita said this in a long conversation at her house on November 14,1965."]
I just found some insight as to what that revolution might be in the book "The Bridge to Heaven" by Michael Brown
Servant of God Maria Esperenza - “the yellow races will stand up, and that’s very serious and I’m very afraid, because they would like to rise up. We are living difficult times right now, and I expect an ‘earthquake’ in Venezuela. It will begin here. There will be a revolution in general that will make people rise up against injustice. A very hard moment will come… Russia may act in a surprise way.”
The things you speak of were also mentioned in Saint Maria Faustina's Divine Mercy revelations. Worded differently. But I always felt the same message and warning which is to be reconciled with God. The time of Mercy is not forever, and we are promised an amnesty if we go to confession and receive Holy Eucharist worthily on the Sunday after Easter, now known as Divine Mercy Sunday.
Jesus first comes as Divine Mercy. Then He will come as the Just Judge. The Just Judge will bring souls back by way of just punishment for sins and transgressions against His Awesome Holiness and Majesty. The storms and natural disasters feel like just punishments to me. And we have to remember Jesus warned in the Gospels not to think those who are caught up in disasters are necessarily more culpable that the rest of us. We need to be more vigilant and take heed of the warnings these disasters are conveying to a sinful world. Lord have Mercy on us all. Especially those who have lost their lives without time to prepare their souls.
I don't remember reading about Blessed Pius IX and a prophesy about a revolution not to mention a Triumph of a revolution.
The only Triumph I am aware of is the Triumph of Immaculate Heart of Mary. And that holds a promise of a period of Peace. God knows we could do with that now if only God would permit that longed for Triumph.
As for revolution. I don't know about you; but does not all the chaos in the Church and the world right now not strike you as a revolution. Things seem to be revolved into chaos and confusion everywhere. What we need is a counter revolution to bring us back to a sane and decent society. Maybe the Warnings will be the wake up call we need to bring back sanity, even for the sake of the little children being born into this crazy world we have around us.
I agree with you from what I have read, that the Warning will precede the Permanent Sign spoken of at Garabandal.
But do tell us more about a Triumph of revolution spoken by Bl. Pius IX. News to me.
The fact that Italy and Europe will be invaded by Russia and subject to revolutions has been mentioned by so many Mystics it is hard to know where to start. I agree the Warning will come at the point where we are just getting set to annihilate ourselves. This is in fact the whole thrust of the Fatima massage, that Russia is the stick to beat us with.
Anyway here are two Italian mystics who I believe to be authenticate and are on the same script
But do tell us more about a Triumph of revolution spoken by Bl. Pius IX. News to me. [/QUOTE]
Well I do not know much more than you. According to the Garabandal Info and Answers thread by Glenn, he states on page 9 of that thread:
"GREAT NEWS ! The Blessed Mother must have been listening in. Out of nowhere , author Thomas Fahy called me today to talk. This very topic came up ! Tom confirmed to me, that when he interviewed Albrecht Weber in 2006 for research for his book "Suddenly and Unexpectedly", Albrecht told him that when the Pope returns from Moscow " there would be a revolution at the Vatican", and involving Northern Spain,Italy & France, from the advance of " Communism ". "
and all of this, this "revolution" takes place before The Warning and Miracle and Permanent Sign
but I think that there are much bigger events, larger in scope and severity after The Warning, Miracle and Permanent Sign.
Thank you for posting these ideas, it is an interesting discussion.
It does appear that what Thomas Fahy stated matches up with what you have from Bl. Pope Pius IX if the "great wonder/sign" is the permanent sign expected at San Sebastian de Garabandal on the day of the Miracle.
This is the prophecy from Bl. Pope Pius IX contained in the book from Rev. R. Gerald. Culleton The Prophets and Our Times (Tan Books and Publishers 1941) p. 206
Pope Pius IX (1878)
Since the whole world is against God and His Church, it is evident that He has reserved the victory over His enemies to Himself. This will be more obvious when it is considered that the root of all our present evils is to be found in the fact that those with talents and vigor crave earthly pleasures, and not only desert God but repudiate Him altogether. Thus it appears they cannot be brought back in any other way except through an act that cannot be ascribed to any secondary agency, and thus all will be forced to look to the supernatural...
There will come a great wonder, which will fill the world with astonishment. This wonder will be preceded by the triumph of revolution. The church will suffer exceedingly. Her servants and her chieftain will be mocked, scourged, and martyred.
Here are some links related to Maria Esperanza which might be of interest,
The following link is 12 years old and some of the "players" have obviously changed since then but I think it is still interesting if you have the time,
Another thought concerning the second part of the prophecy you listed above
"The church will suffer exceedingly. Her servants and her chieftain will be mocked, scourged, and martyred."
I think it is possible that this part refers to what happens AFTER the Warning and Miracle.
I think that the third secret of Fatima, the prophecy of St. Malachy, and others are all the same.
Brother John of the Cleft Rock(1340) “Prophecy for Today” by Edward Connor.
“Toward the end of the world the Pope with the Cardinals will have to flee Rome under trying circumstances to a place where he will be unknown. He will die a cruel death in this exile. The sufferings of the Church will be much greater than at any previous time in her history.”
Pope Saint Pius X (d. 1914) “Prophecy for Today” by Edward Connor. P. 39
“I saw one of my successors by name fleeing over the corpses of his brethren. He will flee to a place for a short respite where he is unknown, but he himself will die a cruel death”
Part of the Third Secret of Fatima
"And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions."
Prophecy of St. Malachy
“In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church”
I think that this part refers to the final sufferings that the church and the world must pass through before the Triumph of The Immaculate Heart and the era of peace to follow
“There will reign Peter the Roman who will feed his flock amid many tribulations”
The phrase “Peter the Roman” refers to the Pope, for every Pope is a successor to the apostle Peter. It is the job of every Pope to “feed his flock” metaphorically speaking, by way of teaching and by way of example. By way of doctrine and also by discipline. Also, Peter the Roman might be the emphases here because it is during this Popes reign that a schism begins to unfold. Hence the name given to this Pope emphasizing His authority as successor to the Apostle Peter. But, the "tribulations" mentioned here might be the events leading up to The Warning and Miracle i.e. schism, and a "revolution", and other disasters yet to come. Pay attention to the next line in this prophecy.
“After which the seven hilled city will be destroyed”
This is most likely referring to Rome. Remember the Third Secret of Fatima " the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step" Also notice that is says "After which" meaning after those little tribulations does the destruction of Rome occur. But "after which" might mean the Pope after Francis. At this point it is unclear which Pope dies a martyr.
“And the dreadful Judge will Judge the people”
I think this part refers to the judgement God has handed down during this time, that humanity deserves the Tribulation. Also, I think it refers to the particular judgement of many people at this time, for many people die during the first part of the tribulation.
I think that there is supposed to be a man-made tribulation which is referred to as the Minor Chastisement before the Warning and the Miracle. Then, after the Warning and the Miracle there will probably be a Chastisement from God which I think will happen after people follow the Antichrist. After all of this, Christ will return for the final judgment.
I think that the following prophecy, “There will reign Peter the Roman who will feed his flock amid many tribulations” may refer to the Holy Pope who will reign during the era of peace which will occur after the Warning and the Miracle but I believe that many prophecies state that there will still be tribulation for awhile.
You could be correct that the following prophecy occurs after the Warning and the Miracle, "The church will suffer exceedingly. Her servants and her chieftain will be mocked, scourged, and martyred." but I think if that is the case it would be soon after they occur. I think that this should proceed the era of peace. Although, I do think that we may be experiencing some of this prophecy currently, in some parts of the world Catholics in great have experienced all of this in the past few years.
It's very difficult to figure it all out.
May God bless you.
Ok, I guess my line of thinking was that if God does not send The Warning and Miracle first the general population would not necessarily realize that subsequent punishments are from God. I guess it seemed logical to me that God would offer repentance and healing via the Warning and Miracle first before he allowed the man made part of the tribulation and the subsequent part of the tribulation that is entirely from God. I was also relying on on the prophecies of Divine Mercy
Divine Mercy in My Soul The Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska
P. 332-333 number 848
“Speak to the world about My Mercy... It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My Mercy.”
So, this prophecy seems to be a confirmation that the Warning and Great Miracle precede the punishments. And, speaking about Our Lord’s Mercy is a sign of the end times. For after The Warning but before the punishments what will many people want to know?-How they can be forgiven by the mercy of God.
P. 563-564 number 1588
“Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy.”
So I guess my thinking was that there will be many bad things that will happen between now and the Warning, but all of that would be the world coming to the worst it could be. Then comes The Warning and Miracle, but these invitations to repentance and healing will be rejected by many people, and then that is what leads to the Minor Chastisement culminating with the Three Days of Darkness.
It's almost impossible to imagine our Church here in the West having to go underground... on that note, my brother-in-law who is a priest, has a good friend, a fellow priest, who has bought a farm in preparation as a refuge... But I believe all these things will happen quite quickly after the 'warning' as the antichrist who will reveal himself then, will know how short his time is and react violently. I'm thinking that the present storm will worsen as time goes on and erupt exponentially after the warning.
Check out Campanions of the Lamb in Paradise, Mi. They are a refuge in a very remote part of the U.P., living off the grid. A Priest started it, I need to get there for a retreat.
Advocate, What you state could be the case.
PS- There is a good discussion going on in relation the sequence of possible future events on the Garabandal thread today, you may find it helpful.
So the next thing I started to think about is, it is evident that God gives messages to his people via private revelation but only a little bit each time. For God did not tell the children at Fatima about The Warning or The Miracle. That was meant for the children at Garabandal and so forth. Well, if that is the case the next logical place to look is Medjugorje.
Now I know there are great differences of opinion on this matter and that is not what this thread is about. For the purposes of this thread we are going to assume it is true.
Ok, so we know that Mirjana has the ten secrets that are meant for the world. Now she made a startling remark about the Her third secret.
"We know the third secrets relate to a great sign. Our Lady say's the great sign will be left at the place of the first visitation site known as “Apparition Hill.” This sign will be visible and permanent. It is said the great sign will be so wondrous, even non-believers will not be able to deny it. However, we do not know what this sign will be, or when it will occur. Mirjana says the great sign will command attention. She adds: “Most of the secrets are depressing, but they must not instill fear in us. Our Lord made me understand that Mary is with us. If we accept Her as Our Mother, God as our Father and Jesus as our Brother, this family will not fail us.”
Well, that sounds awfully familiar. It sounds like the permanent sign mentioned at Garabandal. Perhaps a Permanent sign will be left at both Medjugorje and Garabandal. But, if Mirjana's third secret is a permanent sign what are the first two? Is it possible that one of the first two secrets is The Warning, same as Garabandal?
So, if secret number 1 or 2 is the Warning and secret number 3 is the permanent sign that leaves seven secrets left. Is it possible that the last seven secrets of Medjugorje relate to the seven seals of Revelation?
The seventh seal is divided into trumpets, it is interesting to note what Scripture says about the fourth trumpet:
"When the fourth angel blew his trumpet, a third of the sun, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them became dark. The day lost its light for a third of the time, as did the night."
I think we are in the 1st tribulation, which will climax with the Warning. After the Warning there will be a short pause (not an era of peace), before the Antichrist manifests himself through counterfeit miracles, which will be very attractive to a world in dismay. For those that do not repent and accept Christ they will become slaves of the Antichrist. For those that do repent they will all unite in the one true Church, which the AC and his minions will persecute for 3.5 years till the 3 day's of darkness, which is the climax of the 2nd tribulation. Then the long awaited Era of Peace, Second Coming and the the Reign of the Divine Will . The end of the world is a long way's off.
I don't agree with this sequence of events but that's ok, because our predictions are based on prophecy and some things are conditional.
I will say this though, the world never ends, "world without end, Amen". The world as we know it, well that is another story.
Recently, I started reading Desmond A. Birch's book, "Trial, Tribulation and Triumph: Before, During and After Antichrist". This book has helped me greatly. I am providing an abbreviated timeline that Birch states in this book which I think that member Advocate agrees with (?):
1. The Minor Chastisement will occur if not enough people convert by turning to prayer, sacrifice and penance, it will be mostly a man-made tribulation:
the church will be afflicted by heresy and schism
civil wars break out in France and Italy at the same time, a sign that the minor chastisement has begun
this spreads to general wars resulting in famine and pestilence
civil wars break out in most of the world, total chaos, including in England
earthquakes, tidal waves, floods and other natural disasters
Moslems will cause great trouble for the Church and Europe in general
an army of Russians will invade Western Europe, just when everyone thinks this is impossible
the Pope flees Rome with several Cardinals and is found cruelly murdered
a man who will be later known as a great saint will be elected as Pope near the end of the minor chastisement
the new pope will have great influence on the acceptance of a new great leader, a Great King, by the French
this Great King will lead his army to a victory in Cologne and a final victory in Westphalia against Russian and Prussian forces, it will be apparent that Christ through the intercession of his Blessed Mother took direct miraculous intervention in this victory
at some point the Great King will chase an invading Moslem army back to the Holy Land
near the end of the minor chastisement God sends the Three Days of Darkness
2. The Age of Peace the time of the renewal of Christian culture in the West; the time of the Great King and the new Pope
the Great King establishes peace and civil justice in the world; protects the Church; and defends the poor
the new Pope calls for the greatest ecumenical council in the history of the Church
the world is spiritually and materially prosperous as never before and many Jews, Mohammedans, heathens and heretics will enter the church
eventually this increased prosperity causes many people to grow lax in the faith; wars and bad economic times break out again
after the death of the last Holy Roman Emperor, the Great King, ten kings divide up his empire (Birch states there is a possibility that this division of the empire occurs after several successors of the Great King and this is dependent on the grace of the people)
3. The Major Chastisement - Antichrist the precursor for the Antichrist is the False Prophet, during the time of the Antichrist the Two Witnesses will preach to the people against the Antichrist and the Jews will convert during this time also.
the ten kingdoms of the Roman Empire will be dismantled by an evil leader, the Antichrist, three of the ten kings will not follow the Antichrist
the Antichrist begins his rise to power at around the age of thirty and after he rises to total power his bestial persecution of the church lasts 3.5 years
the Antichrist then kills the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem, their bodies lay in the streets for 3.5 days until to everyone's amazement they are resurrected by God
the Antichrist will unsuccessfully attempt to ascend to heaven and Saint Michael will cast him down to his death
4. The Four Last Things Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell; when Jesus comes in glory to judge the living and the dead.
* Birch does, of course, state that some of these things are conditional.
When the Garabandal's seers refer to the great tribulation I believe that this is the same as the Minor Chastisement or at least a portion of it is. Looking at Birch's timeline is makes sense to me that the Warning and the Miracle would occur during the Minor Chastisement. When exactly, I am not certain.
May God bless you.
Separate names with a comma.