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Pope: “It is the Communists Who Think Like Christians”

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, Nov 11, 2016.

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  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Socialism as well as communism has been consistently condemned by all recent popes until now:

    http://www.tfp.org/tfp-home/catholic-perspective/what-the-popes-have-to-say-about-socialism.html

    It can never be a 'valid' form of government. Every society under socialism or social democracy is led to moral and economic ruin. Just look around you.
     
    little me likes this.
  2. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I understand what you are saying here, Fatima, but we need to understand that Pope Francis is trying to wake people up to some degree so that they begin to seriously think about their faith.

    I believe that people would not get confused about what Francis is saying if they listened only to him or read his words directly instead of listening to his critics who present what the Pope says in a distorted view. There seems to be little recognition that the devil is constantly at work whispering in our ears negative interpretations of everything the Pope says.
     
    Don_D and Jeanne like this.
  3. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Or it leads many of us to study our faith.

    :)



     
    a wee one likes this.
  4. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Wee one and Joe are friends...we one seems to value Joe's input.

    I am not a reader of hearts :) but I do remember some threads were they posted at the same time.

    :)


     
  5. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Hmmm...I am not convinced by that fact.
    Would be good if a wee one answers the question himself.
     
  6. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Joe writes more abtrusive then we one. Joe is easily poked and becomes agitated.

    We one is more calm in his postings.

    Just my observation.

    Brother al
     
  7. a wee one

    a wee one Angels

    Well, Joe and I are separate individuals. Anyone can search a forum member's posts here and find that I have posted very little while Joe has posted much. Yes, infrequently, we had posted on the same days. As I have mentioned on another thread, I've mostly been a reader, not too often a poster. (I first came several years ago at the suggestion of MS7, a dear friend who happens to live in my state in the US. I hope that's OK to note. I sincerely don't know all the etiquette concerning anonymity here but I don't think she'd mind that I acknowledge this fact.) As I continued to visit this site, something that caught my attention was Joe's consistent defense of His Holiness. In my view, Joe, after doing his own solid research, exhibited the ability to comment with both head and heart engaged. That's a dynamic way to express. I especially respect and admire Joe for his defense of Pope Francis because he's done so in the face of such such virulent criticism concerning the words and ways of our Holy Father. Perhaps my praise of Joe is a reflection of my disbelief that he's been booted from the premises. It doesn't make sense to me.

    I admit, I sometimes shake my head at some things Pope Francis has said. However, as I've stated previously, I completely trust Christ's Promises concerning His Vicar and His Church. This is the foundation from which I view any Pope. I then do my own research concerning the quotes of Pope Francis, digging deep for the full story and intent. I have noticed, there are many publications online which do nothing but criticize the Pope. That's what I call a publication with an axe to grind, rather than a resource for seeking truth. I intentionally do NOT read ONLY those articles. And this is the reason I don't comment much. It takes time to do good research, striving to get to original sources. The following article is a perfect example of how important it is to do careful research in a world filled with many voices contradicting each other. The contents of the article, in my mind, should close this thread for the truth is there is no conclusive proof that the title of this thread reveals a real, verified "quote" from Pope Francis. (The emboldened text is my own emphasis. I do not accuse anyone here of intentionally causing the destruction of the Church. But the reality that these things can happen certainly makes me take pause.)

    I often think we will not fully understand all the wonders God is accomplishing in Pope Francis until we can view this papacy in some hindsight. For now, I think of the original Peter who fished all night catching nothing. It was Jesus Who urged Peter to cast his net on the other side and Voila! The nets burst open with an abundant catch. I have no doubts whatsoever that the Holy Spirit guided the Conclave of 2013. He was invoked. Then Jesus, acting in His Vicar, has again asked Peter to cast his net on the other side, in a different way, not negating but building on the foundation of the splendid, edifying, clarifying, erudite writings of Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict. I believe sooner rather than later we shall all be praising and thanking God for what He is accomplishing in Pope Francis.

    [​IMG]
    NEWSBLOGSSUBSCRIBEDONATE
    Previous PostNext Post
    Latest Pope-Scalfari 'Interview' Again Written From Memory

    Posted by Edward Pentin on Saturday Nov 12th, 2016 at 6:21 PM
    Director of a semi-official Vatican news site says interview in which the Pope is supposed to have said "communists think like Christians" was not recorded.
    [​IMG]

    Eugenio Scalfari’s latest “interview” with Pope Francis in the left-leaning Italian daily La Repubblica was, like all his previous ones, not recorded but written from memory, it has been reported.

    According to Luis Badilla Morales, director of the semi-official Vatican news aggregator, Il Sismografo, the Pope met Scalfari for 40 minutes on Nov. 7. The interview was published on two full pages of the newspaper on Nov. 11, as well as in L’Osservatore Romano.

    But as in the case of other such meetings (Sept. 24, 2013, July 13, 2014, and Nov. 1, 2015), “it was not recorded,” Badilla confirmed. “It wasn’t even a conventional interview, with questions and answers. The reporter did not formally request an interview. He asked for a personal meeting.”

    In the latest exchange, Francis was supposed to have told the Italian atheist and communist Scalfari that “it is the communists who think like Christians”, and that the battle against inequality “is the greatest evil that exists in the world.” When asked about Donald Trump, the Pope allegedly replied: “I do not pass judgment on people and politicians, I simply want to understand the suffering that their approach causes the poor and excluded”.

    Badilla said Scalfari, who co-founded La Repubblica, had “again constructed ‘the interview’,” basing it on “his memory and his knowledge and, of course, not on recorded content.”

    He added that it is “very clear” that the quotes of the Pope “don’t belong to the language he uses and of course to his theological training, especially when referring to the words of Jesus.”


    In light of this, Badilla said “some were surprised to find this ‘interview’ also on the pages of L'Osservatore Romano, which the public interpret as the anointing of officialdom.”

    The semi-official Vatican newspaper published the full text of 92 year-old Scalfari’s recollection in today’s Italian edition. In 2013 it also published the first highly controversial ‘interview’ the Pope gave Scalfari, then removed it from the website, republished it, and then removed it again.

    Badilla said the issue of publishing Scalfari’s unrecorded and unnoted meetings with the Pope is a “sensitive” one because “words and thoughts attributed to the Holy Father” in which he “takes positions or makes arbitrary statements” are “without foundation”.

    Writing in La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana, Riccardo Cascioli went further, saying it is “hard not to feel discomfort, even bitterness” in reading these ‘interviews’. He observed that Scalfari’s “crime” in reporting this and other meetings with the Pope without recording them has been repeated, as well as relaying telephone calls the Pope has made to him“to explain this or that”.

    “Now, after three years, we have to admit — though the misconduct remains with Scalfari — that this is a modus operandi of Pope Francis. As he has shown in recent weeks, first with the meeting with the Lutherans in Lund and then now with the popular movements in the Vatican, he has made it a habit to call or meet Scalfari on occasions of important meetings of his pontificate to explain the meaning of the event and its global scope, well aware that the founder of La Repubblica will report it in his newspaper.”

    Before the Oct. 31 Lund meeting commemorating the Reformation, Francis called Scalfari to allegedly say that the brotherhood of all religions and the unity of all Christian churches is the goal as all believe in one God.

    Cascioli stressed that the discomfort “is not in the familiarity that the Pope has established with one of the Italian champions of secularism. On the contrary, it is beautiful this ability to establish human relationships with those who are far away. But it is at least curious, if not annoying, that the faithful should read about what the Pope thinks about the Church and his vision of Christianity from Scalfari.”

    But what is more disconcerting, Cascioli continued, “is the fact that the multiplication of [papal] interviews, statements, press conferences” are creating a magisterium that is “affirmed” through the reporting of the “mainstream press.”

    “This becomes a cause of scandal in the literal sense of the term,” he said. “It disorientates and confuses many Catholics, also because these sentences are then used and abused” by those whose purpose is “the destruction of the Church.”

    “Just think what Scalfari deduces from the words of the Pope, and how the same La Repubblica treats ecclesial events,” Cascioli said.

    This article originally contained a mistranslation of the Italian word "supporto". It has now been corrected. My apologies for the error.
     
  8. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Plausible deniability. Preternaturally cunning.
     
    picadillo likes this.
  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Thanks for this NCR article, wee one, because I hadn't seen its report mentioned elsewhere.
     
    a wee one likes this.
  10. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    Easy to stop. This pope is not stupid. Stop giving interviews.
     
    DeGaulle, SgCatholic and Dolours like this.
  11. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    When searching for something else, I came across this piece about the newly elected Superior General of the Jesuit order, Fr. Arturo Sosa: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/10/exclusive-marxist-revolutionary-new.html#more Curious about him because it was pretty obvious that he was the Pope's preferred candidate, I couldn't find much background until now so I set aside what I had been doing to read about. The body of the article contains a link to a .pdf document written by Fr. Sosa about Christianity and Marxism. It's written in Spanish. Are there any Spanish speakers here who would be kind enough to read it and give us a synopsis in English? http://gumilla.org/biblioteca/bases/biblo/texto/SIC1978402_64-67.pdf I know that Fr. Sosa is not the Pope, but I'm reminded of the old saying "show me your company and I'll show you what you are".

    It's no harm to bear in mind that the left/right divide in Latin America can be quite polarised where everything and everyone is portrayed in stark black and white terms with no grey or middle ground. From my very limited knowledge of Venezuela, Chavez wasn't the sharpest tool in the box (all those oil reserves and no refinery) but neither was he all bad because he did try to improve people's living standards. The Rorate website not being renowned for being a fan of Pope Francis, it would be helpful to get another opinion on Fr. Susa's article.
     
  12. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    That to my ears sounds evasive.
    Let me ask again. Are you and Joe Crozier the same person posting under different names? Yes or no?
     
  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    :ROFLMAO: No wonder you are suspicious of Pope Francis, SgC!! Have you ever thought of becoming a prosecuting barrister? :)
     
  14. a wee one

    a wee one Angels

    No, SgC, I am not Joe Crozier posting under this name. I clearly stated I live in the US and it is well known that Joe lives in NZ. But I do take it as a great compliment that you would think I'm Joe. And I wonder whatever would be the problem if I was Joe? We all gain access to posting on MoG through the same channels. There is no back door. One need only register and begin posting. As far as I know, members have never been asked to check with Padraig before posting or to check with him before reapplying for membership as was suggested by someone in response to my question of why Joe was suddenly silenced.

    It is not wrong to create a name that is not your actual name. Screen names abound here. While I presume that Joe is no Angel, even Angels employ this strategy especially when its purpose is to do God's will. The Archangel Raphael, no less, identified himself as a relative whose name was Azarius. He revealed his true identity only when his mission was complete. Joe's mission is to defend and protect Pope Francis, as far as he is able, from calumny and detraction. He believes that God's will for him includes a duty of care to support the Pope, to promote his teaching and to help others understand when they are confused. Most recently, Joe reapplied through the usual channel by registering and then began posting. He was allowed to post until he expressed support for Pope Francis. He was then immediately silenced. If someone is to be terminated surely they should be given a just reason and surely other members who support Pope Francis on this Catholic forum would wish to know this.
     
  15. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Wow, it seems that you know Joe C very, very well indeed!
     
    BrianK likes this.
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Wee One, I mean no disrespect and I have nothing against Joe, but if you have this big of a problem with the way Padraig runs this site perhaps you should take it up with him in a private message.

    This has often been referred to as Padraig's "living room". Joe was not "silenced" for supporting Pope Francis. There are plenty of others who post much support for the sitting Pontiff and are not thrown off the site. Joe was initially thrown off the site for an incident with Padraig, I remember it but don't want to go into all of the details. If you want to search the forums for it I am sure it is still there. And yes, people have had to ask Padraig's permission to come back on the site once removed from it, you don't just join and post again whenever you want once thrown off. This is Padraig's site. He pays for it. It is not a government owned entity free for all.

    Padraig had said that at some point (perhaps Christmas) Joe could come back, but Joe would not wait and has snuck back on the site several times. To me that shows disrespect, which was why he was thrown off in the first place, not because he likes the Pope.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
    BrianK and SgCatholic like this.
  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I think you owe Padraig an apology.
     
    BrianK likes this.
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