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Pope: “It is the Communists Who Think Like Christians”

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, Nov 11, 2016.

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  1. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    What did Garabandal say about communism?


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    Pope: “It is the Communists Who Think Like Christians”

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    Pope: “It is the Communists Who Think Like Christians”
    [​IMG] Steve Skojec November 11, 2016 0 Comments

    During this week where Americans have been distracted by the unexpected upset of a presidential election that could very well change the course of our collective future, Pope Francis has been busy making political statements of his own.

    In yet another interview with Eugenio Scalfari (see our standard rebuttal to “you can’t trust Scalfari!” here), this exchange was reported to have taken place:

    You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?

    It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom”. [emphasis added]

    One of the most hotly contested criticism of Pope Francis is that he is ideologically aligned with Marxists. We’ve covered some of the connections before, so I won’t rehash them here. What seems fair to say is that this is the most direct admission yet that Francis identifies his program of social justice as something compatible with Communism – itself an intrinsic evil.

    [​IMG]
    Pope Francis receives a crucifix fashioned into a communist hammer and sickle from Bolivian president Evo Morales.

    Of course, this seems all of a piece. On the eve of the US Presidential election — which featured the most pro-abortion candidate for the presidency in this nation’s history — Francis was busy meeting with his friend Emma Bonino, Italy’s most famous and prolific abortionist. They got together to talk about the migrant crisis, something so close to his heart that he not only overlooks Bonino’s crimes and calls her one of Italy’s “greats”, he also used it to take a swipe at then presidential candidate (now president-elect) Donald Trump, saying:

    Christians should not give into the temptation to build walls, even in the face of “hateful and cowardly attacks,” a reference to global terrorism.

    “Dear Brothers and Sisters,” he said, “all walls fall.”

    When Francis was asked directly by Scalfari what he thinks of Trump, he responded:

    “I do not pass judgment on people and politicians, I simply want to understand the suffering that their approach causes the poor and excluded”.

    Today, the theme of migration arose yet again, as it was reported that Francis will infuse a refugee theme into the Vatican’s nativity display:

    Measuring an astounding 55 feet wide, the Nativity scene will feature 17 figures dressed in traditional Maltese attire as well as replica of a “luzzu,” a Maltese boat.

    The boat, the Vatican’s governing office said, “not only represents tradition – fish and life – but also, unfortunately, the realities of migrants who in those very waters sail on makeshift boats to Italy.”

    On matters that should, it seems, be at least as close to the heart of the pope as the plight of refugees, there have instead been bizarre developments over the past few days. Jan Bentz of LifeSiteNews reports that under new papally-approved statutes, members of the Pontifical Academy for Life “will no longer be required to sign a declaration that they uphold the Church’s pro-life teachings.” The Academy is also expanding its focus to protection of the environment.

    “The Academy has a task of a prevalently scientific nature, directed towards the promotion and defense of human life (cf. Vitae Mysterium, 4). In particular, it studies the various aspects that relate to the care of the dignity of the human person at the different ages of existence, mutual respect between genders and generations, the defense of the dignity of each single human being, the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates material and spiritual value, with a view to an authentic ‘human ecology’, which may help to recover the original balance of Creation between the human person and the entire universe (cf. Chirograph, 15 August 2016).”

    Bentz comments:

    The surprise is the inclusion of the word “gender” instead of the more specific and less loaded word “sex,” as well as the consideration of the quality of a human life in a dependent relation with the “entire universe.” This leaves the door open to all kinds of modern trends, such as elevating animal life to equal standing with human life, or putting the idea of a sociological gender before the natural sex of a person. At the same time, the ambiguous “original balance of Creation” is introduced, which needs further theological exposition in order not to be mistaken for a pagan idea of the cosmos.

    And in a new interview included in a book that collects Francis homilies and addresses from his time as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires from 1999 to 2013, Francis’ views on the Mass are brought to light:

    Asked about the liturgy, Pope Francis insisted the Mass reformed after the Second Vatican Council is here to stay and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.”

    In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”

    Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.

    “And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

    The question of how closely Francis aligns himself with Communist ideology will no doubt continue to be debated. His priorities as the leader of the Catholic Church, however, have become increasingly clear.

     
    DeGaulle, Beth B and picadillo like this.
  2. Heidi

    Heidi Archangels

    W.T.F. My mouth was literally hanging open as I read this! Crazy. Quite different from JPII's view of communism! Makes me wonder what Pope Emeritus Benedict must be thinking when he heard about this.
     
    DeGaulle, picadillo and Byron like this.
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    If I had any hair to pull out I would be pulling it all out.
     
  4. Byron

    Byron Principalities

    Why oh why? What could he possibly be thinking?
     
    DeGaulle and picadillo like this.
  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

     
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  6. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I think what the Holy Father is meaning would be about how the communist idea of everything being shared is how we as Christians should be thinking.

    I wonder how much he understands communism. Years ago I worked with a woman who was a communist. She told me that Jesus was the first communist. I went to see my then parish Priest and asked him to tell me how this can be.
    The Priest said to me. The difference between communism and Christianity is under communism you are forced to share. Under Christianity you are invited to share. And you are sharing with a good heart and a good will for Jesus sake. You are not punished for failing to share more that you feel able to do with a good heart.

    The reality seems to me to be, that communism stole the message of Christ and put themselves in the place of Christ; then imposed by force their will on the people. I don't need to write about how much of a failure that turned out to be, not to mention the corruption in those who had power over their fellow men. That is all history. The question is, have we learned a lesson from history. It sometimes feels like the Church is enforcing a sharing mentality on those who may not be at that stage in their spiritual journey. I don't think we are all born with this gift. Unless we are saints from childhood. Just a thought.

    I wonder how people in the south Americas view communism. After all it would be the Germans and Poles who had first hand knowledge and experience of what it meant being so close to Russia. And indeed other countries who were swallowed up by Russia and it's communist ideas.
     
    picadillo and Carol55 like this.
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I don't know whether this comment that is said to have been "reported" is true or not. What I do know is many will try and twist what Pope Francis has said to cause other to disrespect/hate him. I am not saying he did not say this, but I will refuse to comment on hearsay, as it could be false and I am not into breaking the 8th commandment of God's.
     
    Don_D and Jeanne like this.
  8. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    If they are not it doesn't seem the pope cares. He keeps using this guy to get out his message so I think we have to take it for what it is. When he says something that is not catholic, his vatican spinners come out and "make it orthodox". Either he stops or we have to believe Scalfari as he is the pope's preferred mouthpiece.
     
    Dolours likes this.
  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It is often like tryin to catch smoke. I think this is quite deliberate. I think politicians call this, 'Deniability'. You , 'Plant' a story then stand back and see how it takes. If there is an upraor you just deny it or prune it a little. If the outcry is too big you just kill it by denying it altogether. Of course to do such a thing on a regular basis you would need the cooperation of the , 'Source'

    Smoke and mirrors. Sad. A bad way to do things. But I will not go into this, this whole Pontificate has made me so very,very sad indeed. But I'll not go on about it.
     
  10. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    “It is the Communists Who Think Like Christians”

    I'd like to think that this quote from Papa is an example of "something" lost in the translation.... but .... considering his other words-n-actions these past few years ...!!?? :( Reds don't think like Christians they think like dictatorial godless Socialist lovers of wealth-n-political power. Show me in the past 100 years where that was NOT the case be it Leninist/Stalinist, NAZI or Maoist Socialism. Oh!!! ... in their early stages of power/$$$ Grabbing they speak of fairness, brotherhood, share the wealth and "Love" for the ideals of Jesus but in short order it's tyranny, pampered elites-n-miserable populace and persecution of Religion 'cause they believe that The State is god!!
    Now!! Ya don't have to believe me! Check out the International News on Venezuela, Cuba, China, Vietnam , NK ...... and/or pick up a History of the 20th Century!
    Maybe??! ... Perhaps Papa was speaking of True Communists? The only place where I know that has worked for any considerable time is in religious Monasteries/Convents?

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!!
     
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  11. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    From Cardinal Zen: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vaticans-illusions-about-chinese-communism-1478215875
    “Pope Francis has no real knowledge of communism,” the cardinal laments. He blames Francis’ experience in Argentina, where military dictators and rich elites did evil while actual or accused communists suffered trying to help the downtrodden. “So the Holy Father knew the persecuted communists, not the communist persecutors. He knew the communists killed by the government, not the communist governments who killed thousands and hundreds of thousands of people.” (In China it was tens of millions.)

    “I’m sorry to say that in his goodwill he has done many things which are simply ridiculous,” the cardinal says of the pope. These include his approaches to both China and Cuba, the other communist state he has courted at the apparent expense of human rights. But still he’s the pope, so even if he signs a bad deal Cardinal Zen says he won’t protest once it’s done.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

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  13. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Stop being so sanctimonious and condescending. He has expressed this sentiment for years.

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN0F40L020140629

    Pope says communists are closet Christians

    Sun Jun 29, 2014


    (Reuters) - Pope Francis, whose criticisms of unbridled capitalism have prompted some to label him a Marxist, said in an interview published on Sunday that communists had stolen the flag of Christianity.

    The 77-year-old pontiff gave an interview to Il Messaggero, Rome's local newspaper, to mark the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, a Roman holiday.

    He was asked about a blog post in the Economist magazine that said he sounded like a Leninist when he criticized capitalism and called for radical economic reform.

    "I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the center of the Gospel," he said, citing Biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy.

    "Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian'," he said, laughing

    Since his election in March 2013, Francis has often attacked the global economic system as being insensitive to the poor and not doing enough to share wealth with those who need it most.

    Earlier this month, he criticized the wealth made from financial speculation as intolerable and said speculation on commodities was a scandal that compromised the poor's access to food.

    (Reporting by Philip Pullella; Editing by Stephen Powell)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  14. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Dear God....what are we to think?
     
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well at least he is being very open and honest about his beliefs. I wonder in his innocence though if he has any idea at all how very offensive many people will find these point of view?
     
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It won't go down well for those still under the Red Heel and in places like Eastern Europe ; has he no idea at all of the hurt he is causing?
     
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  18. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    They didn't steal it. The Church, via priests who embraced Communist ideology, handed it to them gift wrapped.

    The NCR had a review of the EWTN documentary about Saul Alinsky http://www.ncregister.com/blog/joseph-pronechen/unmasking-the-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing

    The comments beneath the article are very interesting. I recommend that you read them (they are ordered with the most recent comment at the top) and note that Alinsky's staunchest defender is a priest who even attempts to put Alinsky in the same category as Lech Walesa. One poster relates her experience of missionary work in South America where a priest described himself as a Communist Christian. The most accurate description of what priests of a certain vintage did to harm the Church is that they supplanted the second greatest Commandment with the first greatest Commandment. God help us but it appears that such priests have gained control of the Church and are seizing the opportunity of this papacy to frantically incorporate their agenda into Church teaching - an agenda they had been implementing at pastoral level and in Catholic education institutions, including seminaries, for decades without official Church sanction.
     
  19. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    image.jpeg


    http://www.ewtn.co.uk/news/holy-see...mmunists-criticises-youth-who-love-latin-mass

    Pope praises Marxist Communists, criticises youth who love Latin Mass
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    Pope Francis has given two more contraversial interviews during which he praises communists on the one hand, and on the other he criticises young Catholic who love the Latin Mass.

    In his latest interview with the Eugenio Scalfari, the communist editor of La Repubblica, Pope Francis expressed praise of Marxist communism:

    Eugenio Scalfari: You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?


    Pope Francis: “It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom".

    In an interview with Fr Antoni Spadaro, the progressive editor of Jesuit journal, La Civiltà, Pope Francis criticsed young Catholics for their love of the Latin Mass:

    Asked about the liturgy, Pope Francis insisted the Mass reformed after the Second Vatican Council is here to stay and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.”

    In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”

    Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.

    “And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

    Comment

    It is perplexing that Pope Francis praises Marxist Communism which is an extremely rigid ideology that established a network of gulag prisons to punish and kill dissenters; while at the same time, he criticises young Catholics who praise God and celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist through the Latin Mass. Marxism uses violence to coerce adherence to its principles and objectives, while the only power of the Latin Mass is the attraction of beauty and truth of a liturgy that has been celebrated for 2,000 years. It must be very disheartening for young Catholics, who are faithful and committed to living by the faith, to be criticised by the Holy Father because of their devotion to celebrating the Mass as their forefathers for hundreds of years. And at the same time, they hear him praising Marxist Communism that resulted in the deaths of millions of people and the ruthless persecution of the Church. It would be understandable for them to ask the heartfelt question, "Holy Father, what have we done wrong?"
     
  20. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"


    15056301_315643608822825_5675183825160324143_n.jpg
     
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