Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Blizzard, Oct 4, 2017.
The Church has been falling apart for some time - so one cannot just blame the internet --
It is actually coming close to the point where it is embarrassing to be a Catholic -- the divisions are so profound and the lack of clarity from the top it is reminiscent of the Anglicans.
The present leadership of the Church should write a book 'How not to run a Church'.
No it is not just the internet; indeed. To blame it all on the internet would be like blaming a storm on the little people. Nevertheless Factionalism, which St Paul warns about is a big danger. People taking sides kinda for the sake of taking sides, rather like a football match is a huge danger as is that of people with fixed agendas.
The correct term for a papal resignation in canon law is PROPERLY MANIFESTED.
You seem aware of the requirement.
My position is that it is irrational for any thinking observant individual to accept that Pope Benedicts resignation has been properly manifested.
Quite clearly it has not because Pope Benedicts continues to wield several important components of the office of papacy.
This was confirmed by his spokesperson archbishop Ganswein when he publicly stated that Benedict was operating an expanded Petrine ministry.
There can only be one Pope not two.
So what is the true position?
When serious doubt surrounds an issue the traditional catholic response is to always adopt the safer course.
The safe and sure course from my perspective is that Pope Benedicts resignation was defective and he therefore remains the valid Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
Can you be a committed Catholic and not have a fixed agenda?
I do not think you can.
A catholic without a fixed agenda is like a person trying to carry water in their two hands with all fingers open.
There are core beliefs and dogmas that must be adhered to for any Catholic and they are " the fixed agenda"
The heretics in the Vatican and elsewhere are seeking to erode and destroy core catholic belief especially concerning the sacrament of matrimony.
This movement to destroy the sacrament of marriage is led by Fr. Bergoglio SJ.
His published statements and writings placing co- habitation on a par with marriage , his insults to the majority of Catholic marriages when he described them as invalid, and now his final assault on the sacraments of marriage ,Eucharist and confession by permitting adulterers receive Holy Communion all place this man in the forefront of heretics inimical and dangerous to the catholic faith.
Yesterday you said you didn't want to argue anymore and "I rest my case".
I assumed you meant you were done spouting this garbage on the forum.
If you're not done I will just write up a canned response to your "Anthony's Truth Magisterium" and post it after all of your posts since you are a one-trick-pony.
This is how is starts everyone...
People may wonder why I so stridently post rebuttals to the "Benedict is Pope" argument. The above sentence is the reason. I have seen this on many forums. It starts with calling the Pope "Fr." or some other seemingly innocuous insult. Soon people will be calling him "Frankie", then a clown, then all sorts of horrible derogatory names will be thrown around regularly. The whole thing quickly becomes very un-Catholic.
This stuff grows like weeds. If not plucked out this will become just another one of the many venemous Pope-hating websites.
The more things like this are allowed to be posted the more it will attract like-minded posters and then we will be swamped with rude, aggressive, know-it-all's posting the most horrible things.
I for one will be outta here if that happens...
Amazingly, this question still remains: Who knew what and when did he know it?
Most on here would probably agree greatly with much of what you have said. I would say, "be patient". You may be right, Anthony, but time will tell. Until then, if you have the grace to be a Christian of Faith and wisdom within Christ's Catholic Church, stay put.
Francis may be Pope. Benedict may be Pope. Many on here can agree that Francis is at best a terrible, terrible, terrible Pope. But wait. Just wait. We do not know everything. We may suspect much, but be patient.
Pray, pray, pray the Rosary, be hopeful, be thankful that you have the insight to detect heresy when it's spouted, and just be patient.
We don't know yet, and we can't know. You may well be right, Anthony, but just hang on, and be patient. *If* Francis is an anti-Pope, and that's a big "if", time will tell.
Yes. I think you are right. We standing slippery slope. It will take all our courage, constant prayer and an undeserved shower of grace to keep our footing.
If everyone will forgive my resorting to literature this reminds me of the character of Iago in Shakespeare's Othello. At the end of the play Othello looks to see if he has cloven hooves for feet !! he is a chilling fiendish implacable villain and many scholars say he might indeed be intended to be Satan.
He worked on everyone in the play to destroy them. The weak and worldly he tempted through vices but the virtuous he tempted through virtue! Yes the good fell by an excess of what would ordinarily be goodness but in excess it destroyed them. For those who love truth and who love God and His Church the dismay and anger spring from a virtuous sense of justice. From a desire to defend Christ's teachings and the Eucharist. But--taken to excess it becomes contempt and even spite all the time being justified. Thus our own souls are endangered. We are in a precarious place. We MUST maintain charity and respect for each other but also for prelates and for the Holy Father. "The earnest prayer of a righteous man availed much". Let's PRAY everyone. Like we have never prayed! There are traps being set.
Anthony's Truth, I honestly don't think you have thought through the nonsense you are spouting out in your posts.
You are accusing Holy Grandfather Benedict XVI of taking part in some sort of deception of the entire Catholic Church. That is the only way I can describe how your garbage comes across. And what kind of thinking from a nobody on the internet ignores the reality that there are a great number of Holy, Faithful, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests out there praying and begging Almighty God to come to the Rescue, and get the Mystical Body of Christ safely past the crisis we all recognise.
We hear plenty about the 'fallen' clergy, no need to state the case; but the ones who are most talked about are like terrorists, and we should not define the Church by those who make the headlines and the gossip columns around the internet and in the media because of their infamy..
Accusing other Catholics of papal worship or whatever derogatory insult you choose, to trash their respect for whoever Jesus Christ has permitted to lead His Mystical Body in this time; and do not share your venom. Out of your mouth comes vile filth. God only knows what is in your heart.
You need to learn to Trust Jesus, unless you have been appointed Just Judge....There certainly would not be any hope of mercy coming from a kingship with you in the Throne. I will continue to stay with Jesus, and keep watch and pray.
I was hoping to come in and read what the college of Cardinals topic might mean. But not found what I hoped.
You are very confused.
I have not addressed your "arguments" because I don't need to. Francis is the Pope. No amount of "evidence" you can produce will change that. You have been given no authority to dethrone Popes.
As to your comment that I am a "Pope-worshiper" you obviously have not read the forum for very long. I know very well what is going on in the Church and I have fought long and hard against it. The point you are missing is that there are more ways than one off of the Barque. One of those ways is Modernism. Another is Apostasy. Still another of them is to reject the Pope entirely.
To accept that Pope Francis is the Pope does not mean I endorse every utterance that leaves his lips. That is ridiculous and I have never once even hinted at that.
You proceed from false assumptions. I am not fighting for Modernism. I am fighting against you and others leaving the Church!
"Where Peter is there is the Church!"
Is there a triple like button!
I am not leaving the church.
I have identified serious problems that I see and issues with the papacy.
The papacy is not the core of the Catholic Church .
The incumbent ,on whom we differ is , another mortal who must suffer judgement and death like all of us.
I ,thank God , am not responsible for the ghastly mess into which Pope Benedict plunged the church in Feb 2013, nor is it my responsibility to fix it.
I do feel a responsibility to draw attention to problems with the papacy as I see it.
That makes people uncomfortable when I draw conclusions that upset the mainstream.
However at the end of the day I can not hang about whilst a tiny coterie of heretic theologians and cardinals etc wreck the church in collusion with an individual calling himself a pope about whom I have valid genuine doubts concerning not just his intellectual orthodoxy as a catholic but also has orthodoxy as a Christian.
I understand your concern to maintain church unity and cohesion etc and rest assured that I have made no final decisions on anything.
The problems remain and I see no solutions other than the one I have already proposed .
It is not possible to follow or trust a catholic man who has become a heretic.
That is the kernel of the problem.
Praetorian you will not be out of here. If you leave you leave a vacuum. Nature fills vacuums with the opposite. We need more defenders defending. So you are not allowed to leave .
The CCC states he is Pope until he steps down. He stepped down. He allowed a new election to happen. Do you have that little faith in the great Pope Benedict that you think he would damage the Church on purpose?
Thank you Dean that is very kind
I actually had a similar thought when I went to work this afternoon. Abandoning the fight really isn't an option anymore. We are all being tested right now.
three thumbs up.
Agreed, Praetorian your words speak volumes for the truth. Thank you for protecting the faithful from falling off the band wagon into the mud. You are a true warrior for Christ's one true church.
It's good to hear that you are not leaving the church.
There have been problems with Papacies in the past and the Church has survived and we have been insured that it will continue to survive.
I don't think this "ghastly mess" is Pope Benedict's fault by resigning, it is certainly not your fault nor any one person's fault but something that we have probably been on track to happening for a long while.
What is the one solution that you have already proposed?
May God bless you.
Separate names with a comma.