1. Welcome to Mother of God Forums - A place dedicated to the Mother of God. Please feel free to join us in prayer and sharing. Please Register to start posting.
    Dismiss Notice

Pope Francis’ envoy confirms official Medjugorje pilgrimages allowed

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by sparrow, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. sparrow

    sparrow Archangels



    Pope Francis’ envoy confirms official Medjugorje pilgrimages allowed

    by Jesús Colina | Aleteia News | Dec 07, 2017 | original article

    "The devotion of Medjugorje is allowed. It’s not prohibited, and need not be done in secret,” confirmed Archbishop Henryk Hoser of Warsaw-Praga, Poland, now some months after being sent to Medjugorje by Pope Francis to evaluate not the veracity of the apparitions, but the state of the pastoral care being provided to the thousands of pilgrims who flock to the site every year.

    [​IMG]Formerly, pilgrimages to the site were not to be organized by official Church groups, though the faithful could make them privately or through other organizations. Now, the stance on officially-organized pilgrimages will open.

    “My mission is precisely to analyze the pastoral situation and propose improvements,” the archbishop told Aleteia, about his assignment at the shrine in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which has attracted millions of people since Marian apparitions reportedly began there in 1981.

    “Today, dioceses and other institutions can organize official pilgrimages. It’s no longer a problem,” explained the archbishop, speaking to us from his residence in a Warsaw neighborhood. “Pope Francis recently asked an Albanian cardinal to give his blessing to the faithful present in Medjugorje,” he added.

    “I am full of admiration for the work the Franciscans are doing there,” the Polish prelate reported. “With a relatively small team—there is only a dozen of them—they do a huge job of welcoming pilgrims. Every summer they organize a youth festival. This year, there were 50,000 young people from around the world, with more than 700 priests.”

    [​IMG]“There is a massive number of confessions. They have about 50 confessionals, which are not enough. These are very deep confessions,” he said.

    “This is a phenomenon. And what confirms the authenticity of the place is the large amount of charitable institutions that exist around the sanctuary. And another aspect as well: the great effort that is being made at the level of Christian formation. Each year, they organize conferences at different levels, for various audiences (priests, doctors, parents, young people, couples …)”

    “The decree of the former episcopal conference of what used to be Yugoslavia, which, before the Balkan war, advised against pilgrimages in Medjugorje organized by bishops, is no longer relevant,” he said.

    [​IMG]There are other cases of locations of apparitions, like Kibeho, in Rwanda, where the diocesan bishop agreed to allow the devotion, and then continued the analysis for the recognition of the apparitions.

    The archbishop revealed that the conclusion of the Commission for the analysis of the apparitions of Medjugorje, which Benedict XVI had entrusted to Cardinal Camillo Ruini, appears to be favorable.

    “What I find touching is that all the seers have turned to family life,” Archbishop Hoser reflected. “In our day and age, the family is of enormous importance. All of them have a family. Those who were teenagers at the time, are already grandmothers; 37 years have passed!”

    “But this decision will have to be made by the pope. The file is now at the Secretariat of State. I believe the final decision will be made,” concluded Archbishop Hoser.
    Patty and Sam like this.
  2. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    As so often, the above report was somewhat misleading. Archbishop Hoser has now clarified the situation with an interview with the Italian news site, Il Giornale :

    Monsignor Henryk Hoser, Archbishop Emeritus of Warsaw-Prague, speaks to Il Giornale after the clamour aroused by his words on the "Medjugorje cult which is now authorized". From the Vatican it is said that Pope Francis did not give any instructions on Medjugorje but the delegate of Bergoglio, sent to the small town of Bosnia-Herzegovina to "investigate" the pastoral situation and to know the needs of the faithful, specifies today that "the decree that he forbade bishops to organize pilgrimages is no longer active ".

    Monsignor, can you explain to us better?

    I can say that the Marian cult in Medjugorje is absolutely not forbidden, indeed! It is always accessible, because it is universal. You do not need any authorization, in short, to pray to Our Lady!

    You said that the old decree of the Episcopal Conference of Yugoslavia that before the war advised against the bishops organizing pilgrimages to Medjugorje is no longer in place. Is that so?

    I confirm, first that the pilgrimages were a rarity and during the war it was considered appropriate to proceed like this. That decree is no longer active ...

    So, for pilgrimages, how should one behave?

    We need to distinguish between worship and apparitions. If a bishop wants to organize a prayer pilgrimage to Medjugorje to pray to Our Lady, he can do it without problem. But organized pilgrimages to go there for the apparitions, we can not, there is no authorization to do it

    And why?

    Because the problem of the visionaries is not yet solved. They are working on the matter at the Vatican. The document is in the Secretariat of State and must be awaited. And of course we need a pronouncement from the Pope who was able to study the report of the commission presided over by Cardinal Ruini.

    Paolo Brosio in his latest book "The Pope and Medjugorje", also speaks of the presumed seers and their turbulent relationship with the diocese of Mostar. Did you meet them?

    Yes, to be precise, I met four of them ...

    How did you find them? What do you think?

    I found them well, but I can not talk about this, I'm sorry.

    And what did you find in Medjugorje?

    I must say that I found a correct cult, Christocentric, classic. I did not find strange or unknown aspects from the Church ...

    And the priests who arrive there how do they behave?

    They behave well I have to say, they hear confessions a lot. It is not a vacation place, there are no circumstances that can make us think that the priests go there to have fun.

    You mentioned an Albanian Cardinal who blessed the faithful in Medjugorje after having been authorized by the Pope.

    Yes, Cardinal Ernest Simoni, before going there, asked the Holy Father if he could do it, and Francis said he could absolutely go and bless God's people on his behalf.

    David Healy likes this.
  3. gracia

    gracia Angels

    Has there been any official word yet on whether the Medjugorje apparitions in and of themselves are approved?
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    You can go to an apparition site, but you can't go near the apparitions. It's a bit like saying you can go to a spring, but you cannot drink from the water.

    If you cannot, or won't say if the waters are poisoned or not, why would you encourage people to travel there?

    It's so bizarre.

    Clearly they recognise that the fruits are good (and the envoy has said as much himself) otherwise why encourage people to go there; but if the fruits are good, well then how can their source be tainted in direct contravention of the Words of Jesus, 'By their fruits you shall know them?'

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  5. pilgrim

    pilgrim Guest

    <<It's a bit like saying you can go to a spring, but you cannot drink from the water.>>

    Because the living water is not Mary but the Holy Spirit…

    <<If you cannot, or won't say if the waters are poisoned or not, why would you encourage people to travel there?>>

    The Holy See will not cut down the tree that produces good fruit, but the tree may need pruning at times.

    Allowing pilgrimages at diocesan level will encourage more priests to visit Medjugorje and help administer the sacraments. For at times there are just not enough Franciscan pastors to cope with the number of pilgrims.

    They dropped the net, and there were so many fish they could not haul it in... the other disciples came on in the boat towing the net and the fish... Simon Peter, who had practically nothing on, went aboard and dragged the net to the shore, full of big fish, one hundred and fifty three of them... Feed my lambs... Look after my sheep... Feed my sheep... John 21

    Ministers of God’s forgiveness offer a truly special welcome. A shrine is a house of forgiveness, where each person meets the tenderness of the Father who has mercy on all, excluding none. Those who approach the confessional do so because they are penitent, they regret their sins. They feel the need to approach. They clearly sense that God does not condemn them, but welcomes them and embraces them like the father of the prodigal son, in order to restore their filial dignity (cf. Lk 15:20-24). Priests who minister in the shrines must have a heart permeated with mercy; their attitude must be that of a father.

  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    This is to misunderstand true Marian Devotion. It is, in fact, a Protestant take on Marian Devotion, for Protestants have had this misunderstanding from the time of the Protestant so called, 'Reformation'. That Mary the Mother of God stand as an obstacle to God rather than a pathway. I am surprised and saddened to read this from someone who is a Catholic and I assume brought up in the Faith.

    This is not what the Catholic Church Teaches on Mary


    Why Pray to Mary ?

    Devotion to Mary leads us directly to her Son, Jesus

    We should all want to go directly to God. However, because we lack perfection in the virtues of faith, humility, obedience, and love, we therefore lack perfection in our desires and therefore, in our direction. God makes up for what we lack, however it is an arrogant assumption to assume that our understanding His way must be His way of overcoming this infinite distance between He and us.

    We must humbly search out to find His Way. All we need is Jesus, BUT we need ALL that He wills for us and that He does.

    Philippians 4:8
    “Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.”

    So, if we truly desire to go directly to God we must not ignore how He has manifested His goodness in creation. We must focus on not only Him but all He has accomplished through others. If we fail at this, we are not focusing on Him at all, but only our deluded perception of Him. All good things come God, because only He can provide the grace for something to be good.

    CCC 2007
    “With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator. Cf. CCC 2008

    CCC 299
    “Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: "You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight." 151 … only in a spirit of humility … Because creation comes forth from God's goodness, it shares in that goodness - "And God saw that it was good. . . very good" - for God willed creation as a gift addressed to man, an inheritance destined for and entrusted to him. On many occasions the Church has had to defend the goodness of creation, including that of the physical world.

    CCC 293
    “… St. Bonaventure explains that God created all things "not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to communicate it", 135 for God has no other reason for creating than his love and goodness … not for increasing his own beatitude, nor for attaining his perfection, but in order to manifest this perfection through the benefits which he bestows on creatures, with absolute freedom …

    1 Corinthians 12:20-21
    “But as it is, there are many parts, yet one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I do not need you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ‘I do not need you.’ ”

    God has built up in Mary’s Immaculate Heart a Super highway to bring us closer to Him

    It is not that a person goes to Mary first and then goes to God. Rather, a person needs to accept Jesus and have faith in Him as their Savior. He is truly God, and our only Savior. She is not. Jesus shows us how much he loves us all. And we read below how no one has done a better job of putting their in Jesus than Mary.

    Luke 1:41-45
    “Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.’ ”

    Therefore, He loves Mary tremendously because of her faithfulness. And He introduces us, the disciples whom He loves, to her. “Behold, your mother!” John 19:27. And He shows us how important she really is and how He wishes to work through her. Revelation 11:19 – 12: 1-5, 17. And then by getting closer to Mary we are enabled to get even closer to Jesus, to know Him better, and love and follow Him more devoutly and therefore more directly. It is worth noting that the only Apostle that persevered in following Jesus all the way to the Cross was the one who was strengthened by his walk with Mary. All the others abandoned him. Through Mary is the most direct way to get closer to Jesus.

    Pope Benedict XVI

    “Our Lady of the Rosary ... We are therefore asked to let ourselves be guided by Mary in this prayer, ancient and ever new, which is especially dear to her because it leads us directly to Jesus, contemplated in his Mysteries of salvation: joyful, luminous, sorrowful and glorious. In the footsteps of Venerable John Paul ii (cf. Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae), I would like to recall that the Rosary is a biblical prayer, interwoven with Sacred Scripture throughout. It is a prayer of the heart, in which the repetition of the Hail Mary directs the thoughts and affections to Christ …”
    [Pope Benedict XVI, Angelus, October 10, 2010]

    Pope John Paul II

    “Christ is the supreme Teacher, the revealer and the one revealed. It is not just a question of learning what he taught but of “learning him”. In this regard could we have any better teacher than Mary? From the divine standpoint, the Spirit is the interior teacher who leads us to the full truth of Christ (cf. Jn 14:26; 15:26; 16:13). But among creatures no one knows Christ better than Mary; no one can introduce us to a profound knowledge of his mystery better than his Mother.”

    [Rosarium Virginis Mariae by JPII, section 14]

    In the book Crossing the Threshold of Hope by John Paul II (in which the Pope is interviewed by Vittorio Messori who wrote the introduction [English edition, Jonathan Cape, 1994]), the Holy Father responded to a precise question from the interviewer.

    “Totus tuus. This phrase is not only an expression of piety, or simply an expression of devotion. It is more. During the Second World War, while I was employed as a factory worker, I came to be attracted to Marian devotion.

    “At first, it had seemed to me that I should distance myself a bit from the Marian devotion of my childhood in order to focus more on Christ. Thanks to St Louis de Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption” (pp. 212-213)
    See EWTN or Page 110 Here
    sparrow and gracia like this.
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    On May 13, 1981 there was an assassination attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II. He credited Mary with saving his life. He said one hand fired the shot, but another - Mary’s hand - guided the bullet, and spared his life. Exactly one year later he gave a homily at Mary’s shrine at Fatima. He said that the purpose of Marian consecration was so that she can lead us to the pierced side of Christ, the Fountain of Mercy.

    Homily at Mass in Fatima May 13, 1982.

    “Meaning of consecration

    8. On the Cross Christ said: “Woman, behold, your son!” With these words he opened in a new way his Mother’s heart. A little later, the Roman soldier's spear pierced the side of the Crucified One. That pierced heart became a sign of the redemption achieved through the death of the Lamb of God.

    The Immaculate Heart of Mary, opened with the words “Woman, behold, your son!”, is spiritually united with the heart of her Son opened by the soldier’s spear. Mary’s Heart was opened by the same love for man and for the world with which Christ loved man and the world, offering himself for them on the Cross, until the soldier’s spear struck that blow.

    Consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary means drawing near, through the Mother’s intercession, to the very Fountain of life that sprang from Golgotha. …

    Consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of the Mother means returning beneath the Cross of the Son. It means consecrating this world to the pierced Heart of the Saviour, bringing it beck 'to the very source of its Redemption. Redemption is always greater than man’s sin and the “sin of the world.” The power of the Redemption is infinitely superior to the whole range of evil in man and the world.

    The Heart of the Mother is aware of this, more than any other heart in the whole universe, visible and invisible.

    And so she calls us. She not only calls us to be converted: she calls us to accept her motherly help to return to the source of Redemption.”
    Pope John Paul II homily at Fatima May 13, 1982
    See EWTN or Vatican web site

    Saint Louis Marie de Montford showed how True Devotion to Jesus Christ is enhanced and most fully expressed when we go to Jesus while assisting ourselves of the help that Jesus wants to give to us through Mary. He summarized it well when he pointed out that there is no shorter way to Jesus than the route were we avail ourselves of God’s help that we receive through Mary. There is no easier road than the one with Mary. God works through her to help us grow more deeply in love with Him. There is no surer road to Jesus than the one through Mary. Understanding Mary helps us to understand who her Son is.

    Saint Maximilian Kolbe

    Do not be afraid to love the Immaculata (Mary) too much because we could never equal the love that Jesus has for Her, and His imitation is our sanctification. To approach the Immaculata is the easiest way to draw near to God. Wherever Thou dost enter, O Mary, Thou dost obtain the grace of conversion and growth in holiness. It is through Thy hands that all graces come to us from the most Sacred Heart of Jesus.

    Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 60, 62
    “Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men originates not in any inner necessity but in the disposition of God. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. It does not hinder in any way the immediate union of the faithful with Christ but on the contrary fosters it. 60

    “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

    “For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.” 62. Also see CCC 970

    Vatican II

    “Everyone should have a genuine devotion to her and entrust his life to her motherly care.”
    [Vatican II Council, 1965. Decree On The Apostolate Of Lay People - Apostolicam Actuositatem, 4 ]

    Pope John Paul II

    Christ is the one mediator between God and mankind: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” (1 Tm 2:5-7; cf. Heb 4:14-16). No one, therefore, can enter into communion with God except through Christ, by the working of the Holy Spirit. Christ’s one, universal mediation, far from being an obstacle on the journey toward God, is the way established by God himself, a fact of which Christ is fully aware. Although participated forms of mediation of different kinds and degrees are not excluded, they acquire meaning and value only from Christ’s own mediation, and they cannot be understood as parallel or complementary to his.
    [Encyclical Redemptoris Missio, 5]

    Matthew 18:20
    “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

    1 Corinthians 12:21
    “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I do not need you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ‘I do not need you.’”

    James 5:16
    “… pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.”

    sparrow and gracia like this.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Why in this place are there so many thousands and thousands of people looking to go to the Sacrament of Confession there and experienced Radical Conversion whilst in the rest of the world the Sacrament is abandoned?

    This being so , why would anyone would to place limits on such a spring of Life?
    sparrow likes this.
  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Recall, the Sacrament is Font of Mercy, it is also a Tribunal of God's Justice. Never forget this.


    Grace is free but it's not cheap , we were bought with the blood of the Lamb. It is perfectly possible that a person goes into the Sacrament with their sins upon them and walks right back out again in an even deeper state of sin being guilty of the sin of huge presumption upon the Mercy of God.

    Matthew 7:21

    "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    sparrow, AED and picadillo like this.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    You know I am very, very innocent in many ways. But the previous remark on Devotion to Mary being an obstacle to the Holy Spirit really stunned me there. There are times when the mouth drops opened and stays open. I have no TV and only read or look at really orthodox Catholic stuff. I generally avoid Secular stuff because it does not interest me. But this has led me to be living in some ways living a a bubble and I had no idea at all just how bad things have gotten.

    I came across an article there now in a Liberal Catholic Newspaper which also caused my jaw to fall open and to stay open.

    It's from the National Catholic Reporter and American modernist / Liberal paper and is basically a hatchet job.

    If anyone want to know how really bad things have gotten in the Church read this. This is the kind of people and ideas we are up against. They are asking for action to be taken against those who speak out and ask questions, they are asking for censorship.

    'I don't think that people are scandalized by the
    Pope. I think they are being told to be scandalized. I think there is a difference."'

    Cardinal Cupich

    What utter complete, total nonsense!


    'The bishops know that EWTN and the National Catholic Register both regularly highlight any and all news stories about resistance to the pope. It seems that, some weeks, if Cardinal Raymond Burke sneezes, Edward Pentin has to write a story about it — and always the same story: It was a truly orthodox sneeze, conformed to the unchangeable and irreformable intrinsic nature of a sneeze, a sneeze worthy of St. John Paul II. Yet there is Bishop Robert Barron doing ads for the Register and saying it presents "the Catholic perspective" — not "a Catholic perspective" but the Catholic perspective. Does the good bishop read it?
    In years past, the bishops would look into "problems" if LifeSiteNews or the American Life League accused someone, somewhere, of not upholding their interpretation of a Catholic's civic obligations. Remember the review of the Catholic Campaign for Human Development? Why was that necessary? Remember the kerfuffle over Catholic Relief Services? And the perpetual campaign against Catholic Charities? Will the bishops now concede that groups like LifeSiteNews and the American Life League and the Lepanto Institute can — and should — be ignored? That perhaps it might even behoove the bishops to make clear that these organizations do not speak for the Catholic Church.'

    Sigh. I need to calm down. My blood pressure. :D:D But its hard to read this stuff without getting angry
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    sparrow, gracia, AED and 1 other person like this.
  11. pilgrim

    pilgrim Guest

    <<I am surprised and saddened to read this from someone who is a Catholic and I assume brought up in the Faith.>>


    While he was at dinner in the house it happened that a number of tax collectors and sinners came to sit at the table with Jesus and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your master eat with tax collectors and sinners?” When he heard this he replied, “It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick. Go and learn the meaning of the words: What I want is mercy, not sacrifice. And indeed I did not come to call the virtuous, but sinners. Matthew 9 : 10-13

    It seems to me that this supposedly Catholic forum, dedicated to the Mother of God, thrives on protest... makes me wonder if the guy running it is as green as he makes out.

    But don’t be sad, weep not for me, but for yourself.

    Jesus could spot pretentious piety a mile off, even among women – and especially at the shared dinner table.

    Peace to all, men and women, of faith and no faith, the healthy and the unhealthy, the merciful and unmerciful, the angry and the peaceful, the judges, just and unjust, the hopeful and the hopeless, the needy and the unwanted, those troubled in mind, those troubled in body, and to all troubled souls in this world who are in need of the Doctor.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Are you making a point or trying to insult?

    I will respond to points made with points made.

    I will not respond to insults with insults.

    Make your point , if you have one; loose the insults and sarcasm if you expect a response.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  13. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    That's nice pilgrim, pick out one scripture quote and base your entire ideology on it. I am 58 years old, have always tried to live my catholic faith according to the traditional belief of Catholicism. As such I know that I am a sinner in need of constant repentence, a word by the way PF seems to be unaware of. I have never been insulted and bullied more in my life than I have by PF. In truth, I detest the man but not the office. Your response was an insult, common among PF and his supportters.
    AED likes this.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    My poor blood pressure.:D:D
    David Healy and AED like this.
  15. AED

    AED Powers

    Honestly what is pilgrim’s point? I can’t find a question in this post only a kind of diatribe. I am grateful Jesus can spot all our sins and foibles and our presumption. It would be very very scary if He could not. Of course we are all sinners on this forum! And so are you pilgrim. No insult intended. Just truth we all have sinned as scripture tells us. Praise God Jesus offers us a way out. As Ralph Martin says: Jesus says the way is narrow and few there are who find it. But lately it’s gotten twisted around. Now it is the way to heaven is wide and everyone is going there. And the way to hell is narrow and hardly anyone is going there. Except this is NOT what Jesus said!”
    He adds that we would do well to heed the words of Jesus. I agree. God bless.
    David Healy and gracia like this.
  16. pilgrim

    pilgrim Guest

    No response required. You chose to blitz and bury my initial response because you got angry.

    Do yourself a favour, and your blood pressure. Quit getting angry with people in the way you do.

    You come across as being so righteous all of the time and feign humility.

    I’m not here to argue the toss with you or anyone else. I simply offered an explanation on the latest development at Medjugorje. Nothing more, and then fire and brimstone was called down on me.

    But that’s your style and the colour of your character, catholic or not. Paisley Green. Bully boy. I know all about them – and how to deal with them.
  17. JAK

    JAK Principalities

    This conversation is none of my business, really, but your words are pretty shocking, Pilgrim. Too much for a Monday tea time.
    AED and gracia like this.
  18. padraig

    padraig New Member


    '...angry '


    '...feign humility.'

    '...fire and brimstone '

    '...bully boy'

    Get back to me when you have gotten a grip on yourself.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    'The justice of God is not served by the anger of man'

    St James.

    AED and gracia like this.
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member


    'Go to Medugorje but don't have anything to with the apparitions'

    is a bit like saying,

    'Go to a casino but don't have anything to do with the gambling'.

    It's quite clearly bizarre.

    AED and gracia like this.

Share This Page