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Poem of the Man God

Discussion in 'Books, movies, links, websites.' started by mothersuperior7, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. This holy priest is about to be beatified and here is what he wrote on the Poem of the Man-God (he approves). I have read so many negatives but this is certainly a positive and also Bishop Danylak's essay regarding it certainly has to be taken into consideration. He UNDERSTANDS WHAT IS GOING ON. There are MANY visionaries and books and writings which have been supressed and we must research them and realize this.
    http://www.bardstown.com/~brchrys/Gablegra/Allegra4.htm

    http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/MariaValtorta/M%20A%20R%20I%20A.htm
     
  2. Carmel333

    Carmel333 Archangels

    I have read the books, and the only real problems I had with
    her was her book on the Second Coming. She says that
    there are other planets with human life, and
    in approved apparitions, Mary has said that there
    are NOT any extraterrestrials......so! Until I read
    the last part, I thought the books were a good
    way to meditate on Jesus life. Although, I don't
    think I would ever read them again. There are much
    better sources to read about Jesus and Mary's life
    and I have been reading those instead.
     
  3. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    There are two major problems with the books (which I have read). 1. Jesus is the God Man and not the Man God and
    2. When seances were all the rage after the loss of life in WW1, the Church specifically stated that genuine 'automatic writing' (which was a means by which 'mediums' claimed to communicate with the dead) was to be regarded as being of demonic origin. It would be very strange if God chose to communicate in this way after His Church had specifically stated that it was not to be treated as being from a benign spiritual source.
     
  4. which approved apparition said that? I know there are many more dimensions.

    Vatican Holds Conference on Extraterrestrial Life

    by NICHOLOS WETHINGTON on NOVEMBER 10, 2009

    [​IMG]
    Though it may seem an unlikely location to happen upon a conference on astrobiology, the Vatican recently held a “study week” of over 30 astronomers, biologists, geologists and religious leaders to discuss the question of the existence of extraterrestrials. This follows the statement made last year by the Pope’s chief astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, that the existence of extraterrestrials does not preclude a belief in God, and that it’s a question to be explored by the Catholic Church. The event, put on by the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, took place at the Casina Pio IV on the Vatican grounds from November 6-11.
    The conference was meant to focus on the scientific perspective on the subject of the existence of extraterrestrial life, and pulled in perspectives from atheist scientists and Catholic leaders alike. It was split into eight different segments, starting with a topics about life here on Earth such as the origins of life, the Earth’s habitability through time, and the environment and genomes. Then the detection of life elsewhere, search strategies for extrasolar planets, the formation and properties of extrasolar planets was discussed, culminating in the last segment, intelligence elsewhere and ‘shadow life’ – life with a biochemistry completely different than that found on Earth.
    Speakers at the event included notable physicist Paul Davies and Jill C. Tarter, the Director of the Center for SETI Research. Numerous astrobiologists and astronomers researching extrasolar planets also were in attendance to give lectures. The whole series of speech abstracts and a list of participants is available in a brochure on the Vatican site, here.



    Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/44713/vatican-holds-conference-on-extraterrestrial-life/#ixzz25Y0c2jRL
     
  5. Pope Benedict XVI's astronomer: the Catholic Church welcomes aliens

    Highly evolved extra terrestrial lifeforms may be living in space and would be welcomed into the church - "no matter how many tentacles", one of the Pope's astronomers has said.

    [​IMG]
    Brother Guy Consolmagno is curator of the Pope's meteorite collection Photo: AP Photo/Plinio Lepri

    [​IMG]
    By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent
    4:16PM BST 17 Sep 2010
    [​IMG]

    The senior Vatican scientist, Brother Guy Consolmagno, said that he would be delighted if we encountered intelligent aliens and would be happy to baptise them.
    His pronouncement opens up the possibility of space missionaries heading out to the stars to convert aliens to Christianity.
    Speaking on the eve of addressing the British Science Festival, Dr Consolmangno said he had no problem with science and religion co-existing together.
    But he dismissed Creationism and claimed that the revival of “intelligent design" – the controversial theory that only God can explain gaps in the theory of evolution – was “bad theology".
    Dr Consolmango is one of a team of 12 astronomers working for the Vatican, said the Catholic Church had been supporting and funding science for centuries.
    He said he was "comfortable" with the idea of alien life and asked if he would baptise an alien, he replied "Only if they asked".
    "I’d be delighted if we found life elsewhere and delighted if we found intelligent life elsewhere," he said.
    “But the odds of us finding it, of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it - when you add them up it’s probably not a practical question.
    “God is bigger than just humanity. God is also the god of angels.”
    He said the characteristics synonymous with having a soul - intelligence, free will, freedom to love and freedom to make decisions may not be unique to humans.
    “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has has a soul,’ he said.
    However machines were unlikely to be smart or human-enough to have souls.
    Dr Consolmango, 57, the curator of the Pope's meteorite collection, is a trained astronomer and planetary scientist at the Vatican’s observatory.
    He worked as a scientist in California for 15 years before turning to the church.
    He said "intelligent design" had been "hijacked" by religious fundamentalists.
    "The word has been hijacked by a narrow group of Creationist fundamentalists in America to mean something it did not originally mean at all.
    "It’s another form of the God of the gaps," he said.
    'It’s bad theology in that it turns God once again into the pagan god of thunder and lightning.’
    The phrase 'Intelligent Design' was centuries old and described the idea that God could be discovered in the laws of space and time and the existence of human reason..
    The Vatican was 'very aware' of what was going on in the world of science, he added.
    The Pontifical Academy of Science, of which Stephen Hawking is a member, kept the senior cardinals and the Pope up-to-date with the latest scientific developments, he said.
    The discovery of aliens would raise huge theological problems for the Roman Catholic church that would make the debate over women priests, clerical abstinence and contraception pale into insignificance.
     
  6. FROM POEM OF THE MAN GOD---Jesus comments on John's REVELATION. The meaning of 'Babylon'. Human knowledge compared to supernatural knowledge. Jesus speaks of other lives in the vast universe. Jesus says those who are not dishonest have their dwellings in Heaven ready.

    Jesus says:
    "I told you one day (dictation of June 19, 1943) that the eternal envious one seeks to copy God in all God's manifestations.
    "God has his faithful archangels. Satan has his. Michael--God's witness-has a hellish imitator; and so does Gabriel--God's strength.
    "The first beast, on coming out of the sea--who with a blasphemous voice has the deluded proclaim, 'Who is like the beast?'--corresponds to Michael. Vanquished and wounded by the latter in the battle between God's hosts and Lucifer's, at the beginning of time, healed by Satan, he feels deathly hate towards Michael, and love, if love can be spoken of among the demons--but it is better to say 'absolute subjection'--for Satan.
    "A faithful minister of his accursed king, he uses intelligence to do harm to the descendants of man, God's creature, and to serve his master. Limitless, measureless force is used by him to persuade man to cancel out My sign on his own, which horrifies the spirits of darkness. Once it is removed, by sin which takes away grace, the luminous chrism upon your being, the Beast can approach and induce man to worship him as if he were a God and serve him in crime.

    "If man reflected on the kind of subjection he gives himself to by wedding sin, he would not sin. But man does not reflect. He looks at the moment and the joy of the moment, and, worse than Esau, he exchanges God's fatherhood for a plate of lentils.
    "Satan, however, does not use only this violent seducer of man. No matter how little man reflects, in general, there are still too many men who, not out of love, but out of fear of punishment, do not want to sin seriously. And then the other Satanic minister appears, the second beast. In the guise of a lamb, he has the spirit of a dragon.
    "It is the second manifestation of Satan and corresponds to Gabriel, for he announces the Beast and is his strongest force: the one that dismantles without seeming to and persuades with lying sweetness that it is right to follow in the Beast's footsteps.
    "It is useless to speak of political power and of the earth. No. If anything, you can apply to the former the name of humanPower and to the latter that of human Knowledge. And if Power by itself produces rebels, Knowledge, when it is only human, corrupts without producing rebellion and leads a boundless number of initiates to perdition. How many are lost through mental pride causing them to scorn the Faith and kill thesoul with the pride which separates them from God! For if I will reap the harvest of the earth on the last day, there is already a reaper in your midst. And it is this spirit of Evil, who cuts you down and doesn't turn you into ears of eternal grain, but into straw for the dwelling places of Satan.
    CONTINUED ON THE NEXT ENTRY
     
  7. "One, one science alone, is necessary. I will repeat a thousand times: to know God and serve Him, to know Him in things, to see Him in events, and be able to distinguish Him from his adversary so as not to fall into perdition. Instead, you are concerned about increasing human knowledge to the detriment of superhuman knowledge.
    "I do not condemn Knowledge. Rather, I am pleased that man should deepen the insights he has gradually been building up by knowledge, so as to be able to comprehend increasingly and admire Me in my works. I have given you intelligence for this. But you must use it to see God in the law of the star, in the formation of the flower, in the conception of a being, and not use intelligence to violate life or deny the Creator.
    "Rationalism, Humanism, Philosophism, Theosophism, Naturism, Classicism, Darwinism--you have schools and doctrines of all kinds and are concerned about them all, no matter how much Truth is distorted or suppressed in them. You do not want to follow and deepen knowledge of the school of Christianity alone.
    "A natural resistance, moreover. In deepening knowledge of religious culture, you would be obliged either to follow the Law--and you do not want to do so--or to confess openly that you want to trample upon the Law. And you don't want to do this either. You thus do not want to become learned in supernatural Knowledge.
    "But, poor fools! What will you do with your little schools and your little words when you have to take My examination? You have extinguished the infinite light of true Knowledge in yourselves and have believed you are illuminating your souls with substitutes for light, just like some poor madmen seeking to put out the sun by making a lot of little lamps into a new sun. But even if mists hide the sun, the sun is always in My firmament. But even if with your doctrines you create mists concealing Knowledge and Truth, Truth and Knowledge always exist, for they come from Me, Who am eternal.
    "Seek true Knowledge and you will understand Knowledge as it should be understood. Free your souls of all the artificial superstructures and lift up the true Faith therein. Like spires of a spiritual cathedral, Knowledge, Wisdom, Intellect and Fortitude and Humility and Continence will bloom thereupon, for the true sage knows not only what is humanly knowable, but knows what is hardest of all: how to master himself in the passions of the flesh and make his lower part the pedestal to lift up his soul and launch his spirit towards the Heavens, to meet Me, whocome and am in all things and who love to be the true and holy Master of My brothers and sisters." CONTINUED ON NEXT ENTRY
     
  8. Later, Still on August 22

    Jesus says:
    "The seven last plagues correspond to the seven peels of thunder not described (in the dictation of Aug. 20). As always, they are figurative descriptions wherein reality is not totally excluded, however. I will explain to you what I deem appropriate to be explained to you in them.

    "The first is the ulcer.
    "Beginning with the times of Moses I punished creatures who had committed unforgivable sins against Me with disgusting diseases. The body of the sister of Moses, Mary, was covered with leprosy for having spoken badly about my servant, Moses. How can the same-and even worse-fail to happen to those who speak ill of their God? Leprosy--or whatever kind of ulcer--spreads more and more because more and more you have spread your sins against God and against the admirable work of God that you are.
    "When you wrap yourselves in lust, don't you perhaps think you are committing a sin against God? Well, you certainly are, for you profane your bodies, where the spirit resides to receive Me, the Supreme Spirit. And how far is man's lust going, when carried out with a cold, deliberate will? It is best not to examine closely this abyss of repugnant human degradation. I tell you that certain animals were called unclean, but man has already surpassed them, and will surpass them even more, and if a new animal could be created, obtained by crossing monkeys with serpents and pigs, it would be even less unclean than certain men with the appearance of man, but with an interior more lascivious and repellent than the filthiest animal.
    "As I told you, mankind is splitting increasingly. The spiritual portion, as scanty as can be, is ascending. The carnal portion, extremely numerous, is descending. It is descending to a frightful depth of vice. When the time of wrath has come, mankind will have reached the perfection of vice.
    "And would you like the inner stench of their dead souls not to ooze out and corrupt the flesh, worshipped more than I and used for all forms of prostitution? And as the ulcers will be provoked by you, so you will fill the sea and the river waters with blood. You are already filling them with your slaughters, and the inhabitants of the waters are diminishing, killed by you, contributing to your hunger. You have trampled upon the gifts which God has given you for your material needs to such a point that earth, sky, and waters are becoming your enemies and deny you the fruits of the earth and the inhabitants of the waters, rivers, forests, and air.
    "You kill. You even kill. You trample on the law of love and forgiveness. You shed your brothers' and sisters' blood, and especially the blood of the good, whom you persecute precisely because they are good. Be careful, though, that God will not one day force you to satisfy your hunger and your thirst with the blood you have shed, in contrast to My order of peace and love.
    "You are rebels against the laws I have given you; rebels against you are the stars and planets which have until now given you light and heat as you needed, obeying the rules I have indicated out of goodness towards you.
    "Repugnant illnesses as a mark of your vice, blood in the waters bearing witness to all the blood you have wanted to shed--and in the midst of it there is mine--fire from the sun to give you a foretaste of the eternal embers awaiting the accursed, darkness to warn you that darkness awaits whoever hates the Light--all of this to lead you to reflect and repent.
    "And it will be of no use. You will go on plummeting. You will go on making your alliances with evil, preparing the way for the 'kings of the East--that is, for assistance from the Son of Evil.
    "My angels seem to be the ones that are bringing the plagues. In reality, you are. You want them, and you shall have them.
    "Having become dragons and beasts yourselves, by having wedded the Dragon and the Beast, you will give birth to unclean beings from your corrupt insides: the absolute demoniacal doctrines which by performing false prodigies will seduce the powerful and drag them into battle against God. You will be so perverted that you will take what is a hellish creation to be heavenly prodigies.
    "Maria, now I will take your hand to lead you to the most obscure point in John's book. The annotators of it have exhausted their capacity in many deductions to explain to themselves and to the multitudes who the 'great Babylon' is. With a human view, to which the jolts left by desired events or by events taking place were not unconnected, they have given the name of Babylon to many things. CONTINUED IN NEXT ENTRY
     
  9. "But how is it that they have never considered that the 'great Babylon' is the whole Earth? I would be a very small and limited God the Creator if I had created only the Earth as an inhabited world! With a beat of My will I have brought forth worlds upon worlds from nothing and cast them as luminous fine dust into the immensity of the firmament.
    "The Earth, about which you are so proud and fierce, is nothing but one of the bits of fine dust rotating in unboundedness, and not the biggest one. It is certainly the most corrupt one, though. Lives upon lives are teeming in the millions of worlds which are the joy of your gaze on peaceful nights, and the perfection of God will appear to you when, with the intellectual sight of your spirits rejoined to God, you are able to see the wonders of those worlds.
    "Isn't the Earth really the great harlot that has committed fornication with all the powers of earth and hell, and haven't the Earth's inhabitants prostituted themselves--bodies and souls--just to triumph during the earthly day?
    "That is certainly the case. The crimes of the Earth have all the names of blasphemy, as the Beast does with whom the Earth and its inhabitants have allied themselves just to triumph. The seven sins are like a horrendous ornament on the head of the Beast, who transports the Earth and those of the earth to the pastures of Evil, and the ten horns, a metaphorical number, serve to demonstrate the limitless acts of wickedness committed just to obtain, at any cost, what his ferocious covetousness wants.
    "Isn't the Earth really soaked with the blood of the martyrs, inebriated by this holy liqueur, which, having been drunk by its sacrilegious mouth, has changed therein into a filter for accursed drunkenness? The Beast that carries it-the compendium and synthesis of all the evil done from Adam on just to triumph in the world and in the flesh-draws behind him those who by adoring him will become king for an hour of an accursed kingdom. You are kings as children of God, and it is an eternal kingdom. But you become kings for an hour of an accursed kingdom when you worship Satan, who can only give you an ephemeral triumph paid for at the price of an eternity of horror.
    "The Beast, John says, was and is not. At the end of the world that is the way it will be. He was, because he has really existed; he is not because I, the Christ, will have defeated and buried him because he will no longer be necessary, then, for the triumphs of the world (on a typed copy the writer adds at the foot of the page in pencil: "After the defeat of the Antichrist and the desrtuction of Babylon.")

    "Isn't the Earth seated on the waters of her seas and hasn't she made use of these to do harm? What has she not made use of? Peoples, nations, races, boundaries, interests, food, expansions--everything has been of use to her to fornicate and carry out enormous homicides and betrayals like that of Judas. Her own children, nourished by her with the blood of sin, will accomplish God's vengeance upon her by destroying themselves, bringing themselves, bringing the sum of the crimes against God and against man to the perfect number which demands the thundering of My 'Enough!'
    "In that hour the blood of the martyrs and prophets, steaming with a smell pleasing to My throne, will seethe, and the clods of the earth which have gathered in the moans of those slain out of hatred for Me and received their last shudders will cast forth a loud cry made up of all those holy moans and will tremble with anguished convulsion, shaking men's cities and homes, where there is sinning and killing, and filling the vault of the Heavens with a voice calling for Justice.
    "And there will be Justice. I will come. I will come because I am Faithful and Truthful. I will come to bring Peace to the faithful and holy Judgment to those who have lived. I will come with My name, whose meaning is known to Me alone and in whose letters are the main attributes of God, of whom I am Part and Whole. CONTINUED IN NEXT ENTRY
     
  10. "Write: Gesu: Grandeur, Eternity, Sanctity, Unity. Write: Cristo: Charity, Redemption, Immensity, Sapience, Trinity, Omnipotence (of God summarized in the name of the Word made man). And if you think some attributes are missing, consider that Justice is comprehended in holiness--for whoever is holy is just; Royalty, in grandeur; and Creation, in omnipotence. In My name the praises of God are thus proclaimed.
    "A holy name whose sound terrifies the demons. Name of Life that give Life, Light and Strength for whoever loves and invokes you.
    "Name which is a crown upon my head (writer notes: "in the period of peace preceding the judgment") as the victor over the Beast and his prophet, who will be taken, driven down, submerged, and buried in the liquid, eternal fire whose corrosive ferocity is inconceivable for human sensation.
    "It will then be the time of My Kingdom on Earth. There will thus be a truce in the demoniacal crimes so as to give man time to hear the heavenly voices again. Once the power unleashing horror has been taken out of the way, immense spiritual currents will come down like waterfalls of grace, like rivers of celestial waters, to speak words of Light.
    "But as, over the centuries, they did not gather in the isolated Voices, beginning with that of the Word, which speak of Goodness, so men will be deaf, still deaf--except for those marked with My sign, My most beloved friends set on following Me--deaf to the voices of many spirits, to the voices similar to the sound of many waters which will sing the new canticle to guide the peoples to meet the Light and, above all, Me: the Eternal Word. When the last attempt has been made, (writer notes: "The attempt at peace after the punishments, at spiritual evangelization") Satan will come for the last time and will find followers in the four corners of the earth, and they will be more numerous than the sand of the sea. "O Christ! O Jesus, who died to save men! Only the patience of a God could have waited so long, done so much, and obtained so little without withdrawing his gift from men and having them perish long before the hour indicated! Only My Patience, which is Love, was able to await you, knowing that, like sand filtering through a very fine sieve, some rare souls would come to glory, in contrast to the mass that is unable and unwilling to filter through the sieve of the Law, Love, and Sacrifice to arrive at Me.
    "But in the hour of My coming, when, in the role of God, King, and Judge, I will come to gather together the chosen and curse the reprobate, hurling them there, where the Antichrist, the Beast, and Satan will already be eternally, after the supreme victory of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Victor over Death and Evil, to these chosen ones, who have been able to remain 'alive' in life, alive in the spirit, awaiting our hour of triumph, I will give possession of the heavenly dwelling, I will give Myself unceasingly and measurelessly.
    "Aspire to that hour, Maria. Call it and call Me with all the strength of your spirit. Here I am, already coming when a soul calls Me. Together with the Beloved One, who from the Earth saw the glory of the Lamb, the Son of God, the glory of his and your Jesus, with every beat of your heart say, 'Come, Lord Jesus."'
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    CONTINUED IN NEXT ENTRY
     
  11. I (Maria Valtorta) am just a tatter, a poor little tatter. All that remains to me is a soul immersed in sweetness.
    In dictating to me, Jesus has me understand that when He says "Earth," He means the "world," taken not as a globe of dust and waters, but, rather, as a union of persons. I don't know if I am able to explain properly. When He says "Earth," He means, shall I say, a moral entity, and when He says, "earth," He simply means a planet composed of turf, mountains, and waters. The former is blameworthy; the latter is innocent.
    That is why He can say without contradicting Himself that the blood of the martyrs has become venom for the Earth, which has drunk it (in its inhabitants) with sacrilegious wrath and shed it (in its governing powers) with a blasphemous abuse of temporal power, whereas the earth-globe, rotating in ethereal space, has respectfully drunk and lovingly received the blood of the martyrs and their convulsions in agony and presents the former and the latter to the Eternal, maternally and mercifully asking that they not be shed and suffered for nothing and that justice may be done to them.
    I am happy to have received the direct explanation from the Book which I like so much, but, in human terms, I assure you (Fr. Migliorini, her spiritual director) that I am a wreck. I seem to be an empty thing, squeezed out. I no longer have anything inside after having had so much.
    In these days, crushed by the loud voices sounding inside me, I couldn't stand human noise, and there has been so much of it around me! I have suffered very much, caught between life's ordinary fetters and the Master's supernatural demands.
    Well. Now it's done. And I now say, "A little rest--otherwise Jesus' poor little scribbler will split apart like a machine that's been overused." Now it's yours for the copy. But, when you bring me the text, bring me this notebook back, too. I have less trouble correcting if I have the manuscript in front of me. Otherwise, how can I remember and add the missing words? Who can remember them? I'll give it back to you afterwards.
    There is still more to be said, however.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    CONTINUED IN NEXT ENTRY
     
  12. LAST ENTRY--

    Jesus says:
    "Before closing this cycle there is something to be said about the two resurrections.
    "The first begins when the soul separates from the body and appears before Me in the individual judgment. But it is only a partial resurrection. Rather than a resurrection, it could be called the liberation of the spirit from the sheath of the flesh and the spirit's waiting to rejoin the flesh so as to reconstitute the living temple created by the Father, the temple of man created in the image and likeness of God.
    "A work in which one part is missing is incomplete and thus imperfect. Man as a work, perfect in his creation, is incomplete and imperfect if not joined together again in his different parts. Destined to the Kingdom of light or the dwelling of darkness, men must eternally be in one or the other with their perfection as flesh and spirit.
    "The first and second resurrection are thus spoken of. But observe.
    "The one who has killed his spirit with an earthly life of sin comes to Me, in the particular judgment, with a spirit that is already dead. The final resurrection will cause his flesh to take on again the weight of the spirit so as to die with it completely. Whereas the one who has overcome the flesh in earthly life comes to Me, in the particular judgment, with an alive spirit that, on entering Paradise, increases his mode of living.
    "Those being purged are also 'alive! Sick, but alive. When healing is obtained in expiation, they will enter the place which is Life. In the final resurrection their spirits, alive with my Life, to which they will be indissolubly united, will take on the flesh again to make it glorious and live with it totally, just as I live with it.
    "That's why the first and second death are spoken of and, consequently, the first and second resurrection. Man must arrive at this eternal possession of the Light--for in Paradise you possess God, and God is Light--by his own will, as by his own will he wanted to lose the Light and Paradise. I give you help, but the will must be yours.
    "I am faithful. I have created you free, and I leave you free. And if you consider how worthy of admiration this respect by God for man's free will is, you can understand how right and proper it would be for you not to abuse it by doing evil therewith, and how right and proper to maintain your respect for, gratitude towards, and love of the Lord God.
    "To those who have not acted dishonestly I say, 'Your dwelling in Heaven is ready, and I ardently desire that you should be in My Blessedness.'"

    [​IMG]
    Written by Maria Valtorta. From THE NOTEBOOKS 1943, August 22.
    http://valtorta.org
     
  13. Carmel333

    Carmel333 Archangels

    I still cannot and would not recommend them. I read them before I had found out that the Church had banned them. I also found Jesus to be quite a different person in them than I experienced. In the Poem books, He was angry and discusted most of the time, and in my experience, He was loving, merciful, a little angry, humble, had a great sense of humor, and just undescribebly majestic. When I read St Faustina's Diary, St Teresa of Avila, and other Saints accounts of Him, I found Him to be like I had experienced Him. I didn't feel like Maria's accounts of His feelings and treatments of people, to make my "heart burn within me" as the Gospels and the Saints accounts of Him. Also I am a little afraid of anyone who knows "better" than the Catholic Church, who Jesus promised would be our guide back to Him. If you really want some deep spiritual food, try St Catherine of Sienna's Dialogue with God the Father. Just my humble opinion.
     
  14. I respect your opinion on this Carmel. I however have found the books incredible and believable. I found Jesus to be so loving and giving. I could barely read a story without crying and my children still remember the sweet stories of Analeah, the little girl who died and came back and later gave her life to Jesus after the Crucifixion as a virgin and she then died of Joy! My spiritual Father Bishop Danylak wrote the defense of the Poem and Maria Valtorta. It is interesting the intrigue and conspiracy against those visionaries and victim souls that those within and outside of the Church would seek to silence. I say this knowing it as a fact. Throughout time this has happened and of course, in time they were justified and the darkness that sought to hide them was brought to light. Bishop Danylak has spent considerable amounts of time, and knowing that he was in Rome for many years and knows many, many holy Marian Priests and Bishops and Cardinals who agreed with him, he felt it necessary to write the defense.

    WHO is this you are speaking of? Bishop Danylak??

    In 1947, Fr. Migliorini, OSM, together with Valtorta's future theological censor, Fr. Conrad Berti, OSM, his confrere in the Servites of Mary, succeeded in having the first complete Italian typescript of The Poem of the Man-God submitted to the then reigning Pope Pius XII, for his evaluation. After personally reading the Work and acquainting himself with Valtorta's Visions and Dictations, Pius XII granted a special audience to both Fathers Migliorini and Berti and their Prior, Father Andrew M. Cecchin, OSM, on February 26, 1948. At that audience, he directed them to publish the Work without omitting anything, not even the explicit assertions reporting "Visions" and "Dictations":
    Publish this work as it is. There is no need to give an opinion on its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not: whoever reads it will understand.
    [These days] we hear of so many visions and revelations. I am not saying that all of them would be true, but there can be some of them that are authentic.
    Because of its obvious importance as an endorsement of the authenticity of Valtorta's Work by the Supreme Head of the Church, recent critics of the Poem now attempt to impugn this Papal audience as a "fabrication" of its promotional literature. The fact that the Pope did grant this audience, however, is historically documented. Indeed, no less a personage than Edouard Cardinal Gagnon, writing to the Maria Valtorta Research Center from the Vatican on October 31, 1987, referred to Pope Pius XII's action as:
    the kind of official Imprimatur granted before witnesses by the Holy Father in 1948.
     
  15. http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/MariaValtorta/inDefense.htm

    Original Article Published in "A Call to Peace, August/September 1992, Vol. 3, No. 4, published monthly by the MIR-A-CALL Center, 1515 North Town East Blvd., Ste 138, Mesquite, TX 75150
    written by The Most Rev. Roman Danylak
    [​IMG] Several months ago Fr. Philip Pavich, OFM, an American Croatian Franciscan priest stationed in Medjugorje, sent a circular letter to the Medjugorje fans, questioning the purported visions of Maria Valtorta and the subsequent book - The Poem of the Man-God, published in English in 5 volumes (10 volumes in Italian). Eventually, I became aware of a plethora of similar views by a variety of authors, priests, concerned Catholics, conservative faithful, and not only radical or liberal Catholics, who would reject such visions and revelations out of hand. My initial reaction to this long circular letter was one of apprehension. I went back to the sources: the text of The Poem of the Man-God, in the Italian original and the English translation, to their extensive introductions, foot-notes and appendices, to the decree of the Sacred Congregation for Doctrine of Faith on the abolition of the index of forbidden books; and especially the sections that caused Fr. Pavich such concern. I reviewed once again the major work of Fr. Gabriel Roschini: The Virgin Mary in the Writings of Maria Valtorta.
    Reflecting on the areas of concern in the light of the difficulties raised by Fr. Pavich, and the plethora of writers to Catholic newsletters or weeklies, like The Wanderer, it soon became evident to me that all the reservations of Fr. Pavich and other articlists stem from their interpretation of the hearsay comments and interpretations of the episodes in The Poem of the Man-God, and especially their misreading of the notice that the first edition of The Poem had been placed on the index of forbidden books. Not one of these writers, however, took it upon himself to study the decree, and still less to study in depth The Poem of the Man-God, and the statements of scholars and Church authorities and the good things that reputable theologians had to say about The Poem of the Man-God.
    I shall address myself to the major issues at length. The above-mentioned writers were not even aware of the considerable literature of the fifties, the favorable statements of the contemporaries of Maria Valtorta, and especially the theological study and scholarly commentary of Fr. Corrado Berti, a Servite theologian, to the second Italian edition of Il Poema dell'Uomo Dio -- The Poem of the Man-God.
    The principle objections of the censors, that had placed The Poem of the Man God on the index of forbidden books, were that the publishers of the first edition purporting to present private visions and revelations, had not submitted the work to prior ecclesiastical censorship, which is true. Further they accused the book of archaeological and geographical biblical inaccuracies, bad theology, foppish sentimentalism, etc., etc. Two Servite theologians, Fr. Corrado Berti, who prepared a scholarly theological and scriptural commentary to the second edition of The Poem, and Fr. Gabriel Roschini, a noted Mariologist, the author of The Virgin Mary in the Writing's of Maria Valtorta, attest to the orthodoxy of the Catholic faith, the factual accuracy of the descriptions of the biblical geography described in The Poem, and the profundity of theological insight in these writings. Fr. Roschini availed himself of the writings of Valtorta for his course on Mariology in the 1970's, and his course notes became the basis for his final and definitive book on Mariology, The Virgin Mary in the Writings of Maria Valtorta. Initially Fr. Roschini had been very standoffish to the writings of Valtorta. He had a change of heart, overcame his initial reserve, to discover an immense treasury of insight into the mystery of Mary. He comments in the introductions of this, his last book on Mary (p. 21 in the English translation).
    We read: "on January 6, 1960 the Osservatore Romano published an article about Il Poema dell 'Uomo Dio as well as a stern censure against it. Yet that same article frankly admitted that we can find in this work "lessons in Marian Theology which shows a complete knowledge of the later studies by present day specialists on the matter... These theological lessons are written in the very terms which a professor of our days would use..." And in a footnote, Fr. Roschini adds that these officials were not even aware of Pope Pius XII's declaration of February 26, 1948, during the special audience he had granted Fr. Berti and two witnesses Fr. Andrea M. Cecchini, Prior, and Fr. Romualdo Migliorini (all three theologians). (Cf. Osservatore Romano, Feb. 27, 1948) -- with the commendation: "Publish this work as is. There is no need to give an opinion on its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not." CONTINUED

     
  16. The subsequent editions, though likewise printed without the Nihil Obstat, were published after the index had been abrogated. But Fr. Pavich was aware only of the hearsay comment of Fr. T. Pervan to a statement attributed to Cardinal Ratzinger. Unfortunately, neither Fr. Pavich nor Fr. Pervan indicate their sources for this reference to the alleged statement of the Cardinal. Other writers also mention a response of Cardinal Ratzinger to queries of Cardinal Siri of Genoa; yet none provides accurate references, so that the readers could evaluate for themselves the thrust of Cardinal Ratzinger's response, if such there were.

    In reply to these objections I will simply quote and comment the text of the new decree and the public giving of notice of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, published In Acta Apostolicae Sedis of 1966. I introduce the English translation of the Latin text of both documents, so that the readers may see for themselves the thrust of these two documents.

    The decree that abrogated the index of forbidden books, distinguishes between those books that were placed on the index because of their objectionable moral, theological and anti-ecclesial character, and other literature, as writings on private revelations or purported visions that were published without prior approval of ecclesiastical authorities. The intense wish of Maria Valtorta, who disclaimed any personal authorship of The Poem of the Man-God other than that she was called to be an amanuensis or recording secretary -- claiming that the writings were a gift from the Lord -- was that the Church should approve this work. One of her greatest crosses, was that this approval was never obtained, even though the final edition of the entire corpus of The Poem was published in compliance with the new rules established by the Holy See. Nor was she herself responsible for the first, nor for that matter the subsequent, publications. This was the work of zealous friends who wanted to share a good thing with the world.

    There was and is nothing morally, theologically or scripturally objectionable, nothing that is contrary to Church teaching or opposed to the authority of the Church, in Valtorta's works. This was the conclusion of the several authorities that I have adduced, as well, also, of the censors of her works who were responsible for the article in the Osservatore Romano of 1960. CONTINUED
     
  17. Secondly, Fr. Pavich takes issue with the title of the book: The Poem of the Man-God inferring that Christ should be more properly called the God-Man. I wish to refer to the work of Saint Alphonsus Ligouri on "The Passion and the Death of Jesus Christ." I quote from the 1983 English edition of the 1927 translation by Rev. Eugene Grimm, CSsR., which I have at hand. It will not be difficult to correlate the translation with the original work of Saint Alphonsus. Quoting from Saint Augustine, St. Alphonsus reverses the words of St. Augustine, 'Deus-Homo' , and writes: "Nothing is more salutary than to think daily on what the Man-God has endured for us." (p. 159). This name of Christ, the Man-God apparently is common Italian usage, L'Uomo-Dio'. Cardinal Pietro Parente, one of the foremost Italian theologians before and during Vatican II, a Secretary of the Holy Office under Card. Ottaviani, in his article on the Incarnate Word in Euntes Docete (1952) titles his treatise "Unità ontologica psicologica dell 'Uomo-Dio"; this expression is often found throughout his writings on Christology.
    Fr. Pavich claims his own authority as a former seminary professor for his personal views, yet herejects the authorities adduced by the editors of The Poem, men reputed not only for their ecclesiastical scholarship, but for their authority in the Church. I shall cite only a few: Cardinal Augustine Bea, Archbishop Carinci, secretary of the Congregation for Saints, Mons. Ugo Lattanzi, Prof. Camillo Corsanego, consistorial advocate for the causes of saints; Frs. Corrado Berti, Romualdo Migliorini, Gabriel Roschini, all theologians or canonists and professors at Pontifical universities, and others. (Cf. Poema dell'Uomo Dio. 1986 edition, vol VII. appendix pp. 1865-1871; and vol X, note 65, pp. 369-370, for list of authorities supporting work of Maria Valtorta, and for a critical evaluation of the biblical and theological competency of her writings).
    I have studied The Poem in depth, not only in its English translation, but in the original Italian edition with the critical notes of Fr. Berti. I affirm their theological soundness, and I welcome the scholarship of Fr. Berti and his critical apparatus to the Italian edition of the works. I have further studied in their original Italian the Quaderni or notebooks of Maria Valtorta for the years from 1943 to 1950. And I want to affirm the theological orthodoxy of the writings of Maria Valtorta.
    Fr. Pavich alludes to two specific areas of concern. Firstly, the words of the Blessed Mother uttered in childhood: "I would also like to be a sinner, a big sinner, if I were not afraid of offending the Lord... Tell me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?" (Poem.. I, p. 40. English translation). I seem to remember a similar comment by Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus. Her profound understanding of the Infinite Mercy of God which finds joy in forgiving sinners. And perhaps not too far from this is the plea of St. Paul: "I have great sadness and continuous sorrow in my heart. For I could wish to be anathema from Christ for the sake of my brethren who are my kinsmen according to the flesh..." . (Rom. 9:3)
    For me, Our Lady, with the wisdom of a child, is seeking to express her profound insight, as a child, into the infinite mercy and compassion of the Redeeming God, whose greatest joy is to forgive the repentant sinner. Whether she actually said such words or not, we'll never know for sure, barring another vision or revelation.
    The second refers to the apparently harsh response of Christ to His Mother, who brings His attention to the lack of wine and the subsequent changing of water into wine in Cana of Galilee. According to Maria Valtorta, Christ indicates that subsequent translators of Scripture omitted a key word. The words of Christ to His mother should read, according to Maria Valtorta: "Woman, what is there still between Me and you?" (John 2:4). The Italian original: "Donna, che vi e più fra me e te?" Various translators translate in various forms the enigmatic "Quid mihi et tibi, mulier?" in the Latin Vulgate, or the original Greek. The commentaries of the eastern Fathers and the western Doctors of the Church on these words fill many pages. The comment of Christ, according to Maria Valtorta (Poem, I, p. 283), implies that the word still (più) was omitted by many translators. This would imply a correction to the text of Scriptures as we possess them, or the suggestion that the original Greek text may have included the Greek word for "più." I was unable to consult a wider variety of sources to the Greek manuscripts, to find manuscripts with this still or "più." Fr. Pavich takes exception to these words attributed by Valtorta to Christ. Scripture scholars will have to address themselves to the textual issue. Be that as it may, the explanation provided in The Poem of the Man-God is more satisfactory than the reams of writings of theologians and even the Fathers of the Church for centuries, not to speak of the offensive interpretations of Protestantism, as if Jesus were putting His Mother in her place. Fr. Roschini makes his own the interpretation of Maria Valtorta:
    This regards Jesus' response to His Mother at the wedding in Cana: "Woman, what is that to Me and to You?" Maria Valtorta quotes this passage as follows:
    "What is there still between Me and You?" The adverb "still" has been added. Valtorta writes as follows: "Jesus explains the meaning of the sentence to me. 'That "Still," which is omitted by many translators, is the keyword of the sentence and explains its true meaning. I was the Son, submissive to My Mother, up to the moment when the will of My Father told Me, that the hour had come when I was to be the Master. From the moment My mission started, I was no longer the Son submissive to My Mother, I was the Servant of God. My moral ties, with My Mother, were broken. They had turned into higher bonds, all of a spiritual nature. I always called Mary, My Holy "Mother." Our love suffered no interruptions, neither did it even cool down, nay, it was never so perfect as when I was separated from Her as by a second birth and She gave Me to the world and for the world, as the Messiah and Evangelizer. Her third sublime mystical maternity took place when She bore Me to the cross in the torture of Golgotha, and made Me the Redeemer of the world.

    .."What is there still between Me and You?" Before, I was Yours --only Yours. You gave Me orders, and I obeyed You. I was "subject" to You. Now I belong to My Mission. Did I not say: "He, who lays his hand on the plow and looks back to bid farewell to those who are staying, is not fit for the Kingdom of God?" (Lk 9:6 1-62) I had laid My hand on the plow not to cut the ground with the plowshare, but to open the hearts of men and sow there the word of God. I was to take My hand away from the plow only when they would tear it away to nail it to the Cross and to open with My torturing nail My Father's heart, out of which forgiveness for mankind was to flow.

    That "still," forgotten by most, meant this: You were everything to Me, Mother, as long as I was only Jesus of Mary of Nazareth, and You are everything in My spirit; but since I became the expectant Messiah, I belong to My Father. Wait for a little while and once My mission is over I will be, once again, entirely Yours. You will hold Me once again in your arms, as when I was a little child, and no one will ever again contend with You for your Son. Your Son will be considered as the disgrace of mankind; My mortal remains will be thrown at you, to bring on You the shame of being the mother of a criminal. After this you will have Me once again, triumphant, and finally you will have Me for ever when you are triumphant in Heaven. But now I belong to all these men. And I belong to the Father, Who sent Me to them'..., (Poema II, p.76). CONTINUED
     
  18. Whatever the truth about the word "still" may be, one thing I do agree with Fr. Pavich on is that these writings, like all accounts of private visions and revelations, remain in that category of private revelations; and the same holds true of all the writings of Maria Valtorta, as with the words and writings and testimony of other visionaries. And we are getting more and more of them. They must all be submitted to the authoritative judgment of the Church, which alone can judge with authority of their authenticity for the faithful. "Videant auctores. Videat Ecclesia."

    But at the same time I wish to underline that the history of the Church is a constant witness to these eruptions of Divine Mercy into the course of human and Church history, through the authoritative utterances of the Magisterium, the writings of mystics and saints, and also in a special way of visions and apparitions from heaven. Why should they stop now, especially when the world has entered into a crisis situation it has never experienced before? Fr. Roschini reviews the theological principles of private revelations, and establishes sound criteria by which we can discern their authenticity. I have included as a supplement the important points that he makes. I refer the reader to his extensive analysis given in his book on The Blessed Virgin Mary in the Writings of Maria Valtorta.


    Thirdly, the critics are disturbed by the accounts of Christ's intimacy with His Mother, and His personal relations to the women of the Gospel. I wish to remind the reader not only that we bear our treasures in earthen vessels; but also that we have forgotten what it means to be real men and real women in the state of original justice. Experiencing our fragility we have surrounded ourselves with so many caveats and precautions, or [else] have given ourselves to our animal sinfulness. Jesus is true God and true man, the very epitome not only of humanity but of manhood. His was a holy and wholesome relationship to womankind. I shall end these reflections with the words of Christ himself, according to Maria Valtorta (The Poem of the Man-God, vol 5, pp. 947-948), according to the vision and words she received April 27, 1948):

    I came... to reinstate in their truth the figures of the Son of Man and of Mary: true children of Adam by flesh and blood, but of an innocent Adam. The children of the Man were to be like us, if our First Parents had not depreciated their perfect humanity in the sense of man, that is of a creature in which there is the double nature, spiritual, in the image and likeness of God, and the material nature --as you know they did. Perfect senses, that is, subject to reason even in their great efficiency. In the senses I include both the moral and the corporal ones. Therefore total and perfect love both for Her spouse to whom She is not attached by sensuality, but only by a tie of spiritual love, and for Her Son. Most loved. Loved with all the perfection of a perfect woman for the Child born of Her. That is how Eve should have loved; like Mary: that is, not for what physical enjoyment her son was, but because that son was the son of the Creator and out of obedience accomplished at His order to multiply the human race.
    And loved with all the ardor of a perfect believer who knows that Son of Hers is not figuratively but really the Son of God. To those who consider Mary's love for Jesus too affectionate, I say that they should consider who Mary was: the Woman without sin and therefore without fault in Her love towards God, towards Her relatives, towards Her spouse, towards Her Son, towards Her neighbor; they should consider what the Mother saw in Me besides seeing the Son of Her womb, and finally that they should consider the nationality of Mary. Her Hebrew race, eastern race, and times very remote from the present ones. So the explanation of certain verbal amplifications, that may seem exaggerated to you, ensues from these elements. The eastern and Hebrew styles are flowery and pompous also when commonly spoken. All the writings of that time and of that race prove it, and in the course of ages the eastern style has not changed very much.
    As twenty centuries later you have to examine these pages, when the wickedness of life has killed so much love, would you expect Me to give you a Mary of Nazareth similar to the superficial woman of your days? Mary is what She is, and the sweet, pure, loving Girl of Israel, the Spouse of God, the Virgin Mother of God cannot be changed into an excessively morbidly exalted woman, or into a glacially selfish one of your days.

    And I tell those, who consider Jesus' love for Mary too affectionate, to consider that in Jesus there was God, and that God, One and Triune, received His consolation by loving Mary, Who requited Him for the sorrow of the whole human race, and was the means by which God could glory again in His Creation that gives citizens to His Heavens. And finally, let them consider that every love becomes guilty when, and only when, it causes disorder, that is, when it goes against the Will of God and the duty to be fulfilled.

    Now consider... did Mary's love do that? Did My love do that? Did She keep Me, through selfish love, from doing all the Will of God? Through a disorderly love for My Mother, did I perhaps repudiate My mission. No. Both loves had but one desire: to accomplish the Will of God for the salvation of the world. And the Mother said all the farewells to Her Son, and the Son said all the farewells to His Mother, handing the Son to the cross of His public teaching and to the Cross of Calvary, handing the Mother to solitude and torture, so that She might be the Co-Redeemer, without taking into account our humanity that felt lacerated and our hearts that were broken with grief. Is that weakness? Is it sentimentalism? It is perfect love, O men, who do not know how to love and who no longer understand Love and Its voices!

    And the purpose of this Work [The Poem] is also to clarify certain points that a number of circumstances has covered with darkness, and they thus form dark zones in the brightness of the evangelic picture, and points that seem a rupture and are only obscured points, between one episode and another -- indecipherable points -- and the ability to decipher them is the key to correctly understand certain situations that had arisen and certain strong manners that I had to have, so contrasting with My continuous exhortations to forgive, to be meek and humble: a certain rigidity towards obstinate, inconvertible opponents. You all ought to remember that God, after using all His mercy, for the sake of His own honor, can also say "Enough" to those who, as He is good, think it is right to take advantage of His forbearance and tempt Him. God is not to be derided. It is an old wise saying.
    CONTINUED
     
  19. In concluding this somewhat lengthy exposition, I want to share some of my personal experiences. Notwithstanding various claims to the contrary, theologians of authority, Scripture scholars, who have studied The Poem, confirm the accuracy of Valtorta's descriptions of place, geography, her accurate knowledge of the Holy Land, etc. And we must remember that Maria Valtorta did not have the health nor the opportunity to study or to correlate her observations. Reading the five volumes in English or the ten volumes in Italian, I was overwhelmed by her mastery not only of poetic composition, but of details, of personages, of the events in the Gospel story. I find significant confirmation of the many characters of apostles, disciples, penitents, etc., mentioned not only in Scripture, but in the liturgical and patristic tradition of the Church in the Byzantine tradition. Her characters are not imaginary, as I suspect of the characters of the narration of another visionary and mystic, Catherine Emmerich**, but real people, whose identity is confirmed by the Fathers and the liturgical feasts of the Byzantine Church. I am sure we would also find similar confirmation in the patristic tradition of the West. I am less acquainted with this latter I leave to more competent authorities this field of investigation. We further find in the accounts of Maria Valtorta answers to many of the scriptural questions that have been hashed and rehashed by Scripture scholars and theologians for centuries, because of the apparent contradictions of the Resurrection accounts of the synoptics and the Gospel of St. John.
    [​IMG]


    Lastly Maria Valtorta presents one of the most vivid, beautiful, living and convincing images of the living Jesus that I have ever encountered. Many readers have found a deeper understanding of their faith and a more profound understanding of the canonicaI scriptures of the New Testament. The Poem of the Man-God merits serious study.


    I strongly urge that all the critics obtain and study The Poem of the Man-God (order info.), reading it in its entirety, and not relying on cursory impressions or the rehash of other critics. They will find in it, I am sure, the peace and joy, the deeper and more intimate knowledge of Our Divine Savior and His Blessed Mother that I and countless other readers, around the globe, have found.

    **...At the time of the beatification of Catherine Emmerich in 2004, the Vatican position on the authenticity of the books produced by Brentano was stated by Father Peter Gumpel, who was involved in the study of the issues for the Congregation for the Causes of the Saints: "It is absolutely not certain that she ever wrote this. There is a serious problem of authenticity".[7][8][6] According to Gumpel, the writings attributed to Emmerich were "absolutely discarded" by the Vatican as part of her beatification process.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich)
     
  20. Carmel333

    Carmel333 Archangels

    I too enjoyed the books, but as I said, they are since 1958 condemned by the Church, and I must be obedient to the Church as part of my Rule. Perhaps that will be lifted someday as it has been in other cases like Faustina. In the meantime her followers are being disobedient by publishing, soliciting, and selling the books, and that is what I was referring to.
     

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