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Odd Day

Discussion in 'Coffee House' started by padraig, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    What do you all think of the following:

    Pius XII himself said he was the "last Pope"

    Jean Guitton was a noted French Catholic philosopher and theologian (1901-1999). According to a book by Fr. Luigi Villa, Guitton wrote in L'Osservatore Romano, October 19, 1960, that Pius XII himself had said that he was the "last pope." Following are excerpts from Fr. Villa's work, Anche John XXIII beato? (John XXIII "Beatified" too?), published in June 2000:

    Wrote Jean Guitton (Pantheist and Bergsonian), friend of Giovanni Battista Montini, "Pius XII knew it, he himself said he was the 'last Pope,' the last link of a long chain. And yet in those years of the 1950's, the Church was thriving. But Pius XII knew an unprecedented crisis was in the making, 'in the very bosom of the Church,' as Pius X had already said. And that came about, in fact, with the election of John XXIII. Modernism exploded violently, in spite of Humanae Generis, issued by Pius XII in 1950. Jacques Maritain shared this view: "The modernism of the time of Pius X, compared with the modern neo-modernistic fever, was but a mere hay-fever." In fact, with Pope John XXIII the situation was reversed. The Progressives popped out from everywhere.

    Pope Pius XII

    . . . John XXIII presently thought of appointing new Cardinals. Obviously, the first, whom he personally dictated, was Monsignor Montini, although he knew that Pius XII had kicked him out of the Vatican, and wanted him excluded from the Conclave, and for that reason he had refused him the purple habit. And we are still suffering from the consequences of John XXIII's action.

    That too is a clear indication that John XXIII, far from having been a Pope of transition, was a real reformer and transformer, such as the Church had never known since the days of the Counter-Reformation. A new revised Church, today called "Conciliar," (quod dixit Cardinal Benelli).

    ⍏ ⍏ ⍏ ⍏

    Fr. Luigi Villa's book can be downloaded at the following link: http://www.traditionalcatholic.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/John-XXIII-Beatified.pdf
    Don_D likes this.
  2. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    Thank you for the link. I have just begun reading the translated book Fr. Villa wrote regarding Pope Paul VI. It is hard to believe that no one else came forward but him and this was so many years ago. No wonder we find ourselves in the state we are in.

    Here is the link to this other book. Well worth the read.

    Mary's child likes this.
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I am sure Pope Pius XII did not proclaim himself the last Pope. This is a sedevacantist argument, not a Catholic one. Even if he did personally consider himself the last Pope (which I'm sure he didn't) it wouldn't matter. He would have been mistaken.

    It is possible in some way he may have felt we were in the End Times (which I believe he did make statements to that effect) and made some reference to that in his speeches and writings.

    Perhaps he may have said something to the effect that "Will I be the last Pope?" but surely he never made a proclamation that the line of Popes ended with him.

    To go against the idea that we have had valid Popes since Pope Pius XII is to go against the infallible teaching of Vatican Council I which states that we will have perpetual successors to Peter until Christ returns.

    That is not to say there could not be short vacancies or even anti-popes. There have been interregnums in Church history of up to 4 years or so between popes, but an extended vacancy is out of the question. For if we haven't had a valid pope for almost 70 years then the line of valid Cardinals ended long ago and we would have no way to elect a new pope.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  4. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    It always seems that these things come out after a person has died. I must say that I am not very fond of that.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding but we have so many messages from Our Blessed Mother, she wouldn't tell us that Pope Pius XII was the last pope. Hmmm.

    What about the following verse,

    Matthew 16:18 (DRA)
    18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    I find that reading directly what the popes have stated to be helpful. There is a lot of information from the popes on the Vatican website and some of it you will need to translate but it is interesting especially if you want to understand a little bit about a particular pope. I have only done this more recently and only read a small fraction of what is available. I am just making a suggestion. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htm

    When you look at the entire history of the Church, it has hit some very rough spots in the past. Of course, we must be closer to the Second Coming then we ever have been. Should there be a "rewind" to a time when mankind had better morals, I don't think that anyone on this site would argue with that. Was Pope Pius XII the last pope, I would say definitively that would be a NO.

    I think that for instance when Blessed Pope Paul VI stated, "the smoke of Satan entered the temple of God from some fissure" this was a warning. Was it heeded, well the answer to that is NO also.

    May God bless us all and keep praying the Rosary as we have been told to do.
    Seagrace, Mary's child and Praetorian like this.
  5. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    You bring up another important point Carol. Our Lady has made many prophecies concerning these times and she has often made reference to the Pope(s) who would reign during these times. She would not have called an anti-pope or some other pretender to the throne "Pope".
  6. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    All of this is true. I wonder , when these things in the past happened was the remainder of the clergy also abandoning the doctrine, tradition and deposit of the Faith? Or were they coming forward to step into the gap?
    When did we begin to see these things simply no longer protected by the Pope? The one man who Christ left in charge of His church with a single mission. To feed and protect His sheep.
  7. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    SgCatholic likes this.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I was praying over these things and last night I believe my prayer was answered.

    On the night shift last night while working I watched a film on Amazon Prime, 'The Gospel of St John'. It was really excellent and stuck very,very closely to the text.

    But the part that true my attention was that after the Resurrection of Lazarus the Jewish Leaders had a meeting to decide on what to do about Jesus.

    Caiaphas the High Priest said,

    'It is better for one man to die than the the whole Nation be lost'.

    But there is the key part. St John comments that the Holy Spirit spoke through the High Priest in Prophesy. He spoke through the High Priest even though he was wicked to the very core.

    So it is with Popes as with High Priests he can use them no matter how wicked they may be. He has in the past, He can do so now and no doubt He will in the future ; no matter how rotten the core they may turn out to be!!

    So I found this very, very reassuring. :)
    Byron and Mary's child like this.

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