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North Korea and Iran Threat Updates

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Carol55, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Carol, you said that the Catechism says "Jews will be converted prior to his (Antichrist) reign." And that is incorrect. Jews will convert at the end due to 2 witnesses described in (Rev 11: 3-13) who preach for a time and are then put to death by the Antichrist before they rise after 3 days. So, Antichrist is ruling in Jerusalem before the Jews convert. If Israel is to enter the New Covenant one day, St Paul tells us that they will not do so a few at a time, but as an entire nation. Which means we have quite some time to go, but now that Saudi Arabia is abandoning the Palestinians, things are moving faster. Israel does not seem like it may have to end up with 2 state solution after all. The help Israel needs from Saudi Arabia, not Rome is immense to the coming of Antichrist. If the Warning arrives soon, this miracle will bring mass conversion to the Gentiles and spread the Gospel to a universal dimension. And that will then unmask the Antichrist in Jerusalem.
     
  2. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Byron,
    I provided for you what you asked for in the Catechism and you tell me that it is incorrect. Please let the Church and EWTN know that they have it wrong.
    Honestly, I find this discussion to be futile.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  3. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Carol, I'm trying to help you. The Catechism never says prior to the Antichrist the Jews will have been converted. You did not show any evidence of this. Why not admit your mistake?
     
  4. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Byron, Please stop trying to "help" me. I have not made a mistake, thanks anyway.

    Can you provide evidence of what you have stated from our Catechism?
     
  5. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    The Conversion of the Jews at the End of Time
    Posted on May 18, 2013


    One of the signs that must precede the Second Coming of Our Lord and His final judgment is the conversion of the Jews as a nation. It is a confirmed as such by this passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church No 674 “The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old.”St. Paul echoes him: “For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? (Rom 11:15)”The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.

    What we can say is that their conversion is part of a mysterious design of Divine Providence which will bring to fulfillment the Covenant established and never revoked. The first chosen will be the last to accept the message of salvation offered by Jesus Christ. However, the way this occurs is distinctly different to the evangelization of the Gentiles. In his famous text De Consideratione, Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090–1153), writes about this mystery advising Pope Eugene III : “Granted, with regard to the Jews, time excuses you; for them a determined point in time has been fixed, which cannot be anticipated. The full number of Gentiles must come in first” (De Consideratione III/1, 2).

    By rejecting their Messiah,the Jews temporarily frustrated the will of God for them (Lk 7:30) bringing about Jesus’ prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and their dispersal throughout the world- an exile which has last some 2000 years, during which time the Gospel of God’s salvation has spread to a universal level. In a very real way. St. Paul describes this reality when he writes: “But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!” (Rom 11,11-12).

    Two passages from the New Testament relate the importance of the sequence of end times events (in a chronological sense from Pentecost) First in St Luke’s Gospel Jesus says “Jerusalem will be trodden underfoot until the age of the Gentiles is completely fulfilled.” (Lk 21:24) and then Later St Paul says “Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon a part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved…” (Rom 11:25-26). So what we discover is that there can be no mass conversion of the Jews until the Gospel has been spread to a universal dimension. This would also rule out a millennium era of peace in which a temporal Kingdom of Christ would come and transform the earth, because within that theory, the mass conversion of the Jews would have to happen as part of it, as well as the other mass conversion (which we are told only happens at the end of the world), and if the Jews were to reject this ” temporal Kingdom” then they would surely be destined to damnation because presumably they would no longer have invincible ignorance to rely on. This is obviously not the case .Scripture assures us that the Jews will convert at the end and due to the two witnesses described in (Rev 11: 3-13) who preach for a time and are then put to death in Jerusalem by the Antichrist before they rise after three days.

    So what of the Conversion of the Jews and are there any signs of it? In Heralds of the Second Coming, I have avoided any speculation on this point as there is no real evidence yet, but one aspect that cannot be discounted is the establisment of Isreal in 1948 and the return of the Jews to their homeland. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, the Papal Preacher, eloquently summarizes the importance of this momentous event “We know that God gave Israel the land but there is no mention of his taking it back again forever. Can we Christians exclude that what is happening in our day, that is, the return of Israel to the land of its fathers, is not connected in some way, still a mystery to us, to this providential order which concerns the chosen people and which is carried out even through human error and excess as happens in the Church itself? If Israel is to enter the New Covenant one day, St. Paul tells us that they will not do so a few at a time but as an entire nation, as ever-living ‘roots’. But if Israel is to enter as a nation, it must be a nation; it must have a land of its own, an organization and a voice in the midst of other nations of the earth. The fact that Israel has remained an ethnic unity throughout the centuries and throughout many historical upheavals is, in itself, a sign of a destiny that has not been interrupted but is waiting to be fulfilled” (from Christ, the Glory of Israel). (cited from newtorah.org)

    It is interesting that the great wars Jesus described in His Olivet Discourse (and understood by several popes are referring to the two world wars) paved the way (albeit through the terrible evil of the Holocaust) to the creation of the State of Isreal. It would seem that there is an eschatological significance linking these events, which at present is still in part a mystery hidden by Divine Providence. This explains why discerning the sign of the times is so important. We know God has not forgotten Isreal and never will. As Cardinal Ratzinger once pointed out, the Jews are always in the middle of the great events of history, it will be through their greatest ever-namely their final acceptance of Jesus as Lord and God that will bring about the crowning victory of Jesus against all his enemies. Finally, “God may be all in all” giving fulfillment to the great prayer of Jesus “Thy Kingdom come, thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven”. This will be the everlasting eschatological peace which the elect will inherit. Come Lord Jesus!





    This entry was posted in Uncategorized by stephenw. Bookmark the permalink.
    17 THOUGHTS ON “THE CONVERSION OF THE JEWS AT THE END OF TIME”
     
  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Byron, I am not even going to read this, it is from Stephen Walford and unless he is writing our Catechism I have no interest. Like I said, thanks anyway.
     
  7. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Carol, Israel has to be a nation before Jesus comes. Nowhere in the Catechism does it say that all Jews will convert prior to the Antichrist. I'm sorry you don't want my help, but if you are misinforming in this site it is our responsibility to set you straight. I feel it would be yours to set me straight too. After all we are speaking about Scripture. It's a discussion Carol. We all need each other's help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  8. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    He does quote the Catechism! Again, I personally went back to the Catechism, where does it say "prior to his (Antichrist) reign the Jews will have converted?" Nowhere Carol, nowhere.
     
  9. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Carol - the Catechisms quote - "full inclusion of the Jews" may not be interpreted as the conversion of all Jews. This is where you may be misinterpreting. Please read Walford's article. It really makes sense.
     
  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Byron, from the book God Speaks Will You listen messages www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org

    11/6/07
    "Many teach the antichrist will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false prophet and the Anitchrist. Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by an antipope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the mass taking place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the Romans. The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of the antichrist. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled".
     
  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Russia, Iran, Turkey and Syria have become best buddies. This say's allot.
     
  12. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Everyone alive will have known truth prior to the reign of the Antichrist and False Prophet. This will come about via the great Warning that so many Catholic messengers have been given in the past 50 + years. It is not hard to see this as the greatest gift of God's mercy before his adversary arrives. This way no one can say they didn't know truth. All will know absolute truth from the great Illumination of Conscience as Father Gobbi describes it. The choice will be ones final chance to serve God or Satan.
     
    Patty likes this.
  13. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Okay, yes, Fatima stay with me now. I agree with this message wholeheartedly. Thank you. Now just listen please. Of what I'm told by those in Israel today and that includes priests is that Roman Catholics are afraid that once the Israelis takeover completely they will abolish the sacrifice from our Churches. They will turn our Churches into somewhat museums. And with the help of Saudi Arabia, Palestine will be Jewish only. The end result will be a pact with only the Protestant movement in Israel. Why? Because the Evangelicals have always been pro modern Israel. Will it be a weak Pope, who is really an antipope, who will do a Protestant mass inside the Catholic Church in Israel? Anything is possible.
     
  14. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Byron, Imho, you have become both condescending and arrogant in your posts. I am not "misinforming in this site". I am posting from the Catechism and EWTN and you are posting from Stephen Walford; and you are stating that I am incorrect. So sad, so very sad.

    I hope you realize that Israel is a nation now and if there is a very big conversion that does not mean that Israel will no longer be a nation.

    Fatima, Turkey is not "best buddies" with Syria and recently, both Russia and Iran gave them a smack down and told them to cut the nonsense out involving the Kurds.

    Let's see if we can this thread back on track to the discussion of current events involving both North Korea and Iran, at the very least the Middle East. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  15. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Yes, the Warning will bring great conversion worldwide of the Gentiles, and that includes Jews too. But not all. The Gospel will be taught universally like never before. But not all the Jews in the land of Israel will have converted. I agree with Walford's assessment. The Jews in the nation of Israel will be immensely powerful during the time of the Antichrist that will rule in Jerusalem. It will be only after the rise of the 2 witnesses that all the Jews will finally convert and see the truth of Jesus Christ. Then Christ will come down and destroy the Antichrist. Does this make sense to you?
     
  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Byron, no one knows for certainty how it all transpires. How much more will God allow before the great warning? This is the only question that lingers for me. Sufficient credible messages have consensus that before the Antichrist and False Prophet come on the scene God will make sure that all humans on earth will know his truth and their personal sins. No one will go into the era of the Antichrist without having seen their souls in the light of God's truth. While there is more and more indications that the abomination of desolation coming ever more close, it will not take place until after the Warning.
     
    Byron likes this.
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    The conversion of the Jews will only occur via the Warning. They will convert along with all the other religions and Christian denominations separated from of the Catholic Church after the warning. Not all will accept the Warning and they will fall to the AC. Then the abomination of desolation will occur for 1290 day's. The 2 witnesses will only be teaching and bringing understanding to the truths of the Catholic faith after the warning to those who have accepted, but not fully understanding what they were given.
     
  18. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    I slightly remember Fr Gobbi mentioning that most of the Gentiles that will convert after the Warning will be Muslims, Buddhists, etc., but not the Jews. I may be wrong. I have to look that up. But you are the expert Fatima on Gobbi. Do you remember reading anything like that?
     
  19. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Father Gobbi speaks to this in the 'blue book' on pages 660-662, message 410. I will take it to anther thread.
     
  20. Byron

    Byron Archangels

    Why I'm asking is that I have always heard that after the Warning we will have a miracle and the chaos will calm down, and a peace will come about. How long that peace will last is anybody's guess. Fr Gobbi mentions the manifestation of the Antichrist as a person will come at the end of our period of theoretical and practical atheism. Which means today's period of denying God. So, he (Antichrist) comes after the Warning.
     

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