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New chaos and confusion over "Amoris Laetitia"

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by catechist, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member


    Asmodeus as depicted in Collin de Plancy's Dictionnaire Infernal.

    Asmodeus (/ˌæzməˈdiːəs/; Greek: Ασμοδαίος, Asmodaios) or Ashmedai (/ˈæʃmᵻˌdaɪ/; Hebrew: אַשְמְדּאָי‎‎, ʾAšmədʾāy; see below for other variations) is a king of demons[1] mostly known from the deuterocanonical Book of Tobit, in which he is the primary antagonist.[2] The demon is also mentioned in some Talmudic legends; for instance, in the story of the construction of the Temple of Solomon. He was supposed by some Renaissance Christians to be the King of the Nine Hells. Asmodeus also is referred to as one of the seven princes of Hell. In Binsfeld's classification of demons, each one of these princes represents one of the seven deadly sins (Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride). Asmodeus is the demon of lust and is therefore responsible for twisting people's sexual desires, as seen in the book of Tobias especially.

    It is said in Asmodeus; Or, The Devil on Two Sticks that people who fall to Asmodeus' ways will be sentenced to an eternity in the second level of hell.[3]

  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Asmodeus is bascially the devil of bad temper. He is a Prince or senior devil and seems to work by breaking the peace and so relationships. He frays round the edges.
    Booklady likes this.
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I heard a nice quote from Catherine Emmerich the German mystic. She had a vsion of a crowd of Bishops who sat at though in a fog and blinded. I beleive this is an exact understanidng of what is going on in the Church at the moemnt. As St Paul said:

    1 Corinthians 2:15

    Spiritual Wisdom
    …14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.…

    The real reasonw hy Cardinals and Bishops and others are being decieved by Satan and the dmeons in residence in the Vatican at the monet, such as the Prince of Hell Asmodeous is that do not pray enough or in a state of mortal sin. They can no longer tell good from evil and are blind shepherds.

    Many lay Catholics on the other hand do pray and go to mass and confessionf requently and so can see.

    I remeber when Humanae Vitae was declared , for instance both my parents cheering and laughing.

    The Canadian Bishops, on the other hand threw it out at once. Lay people should be listened too; we were told this in fact in the Vatican 2 Document , 'Lumen Gentium'.
    Booklady and Mario like this.
  4. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    This question is for Janet, DavidT, anyone. It is hypothetical. I am of Polish descent. Divorced and remarried and going on a honeymoon to Europe. When we get to Poland I will not be able to receive the Eucharist. As we travel to Vienna Austria, I will be welcome to receive Christ's body and blood. In Rome at the vatican, Papa says come on down. We fly back to Chicago and Cupich says of course. However, we live in the Rockford diocese and we can not ever receive the Eucharist. Is this an accurate description of AL?
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Janet can correct me if any of this reply is incorrect but as I'm online at the moment, I'll attempt a reply. Your hypothetical case presumably doesn't involve any time spent discerning whether the original marriage was valid or not. So the answer to your question is, no, you are not free, canonically, to receive Holy Communion in any of the places you mention.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Well, he's certainly been very active in families that I know of late, including my own, unfortunately. We need a thread on concrete steps that families must take to thwart him.
    Booklady likes this.
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The Promises of the Sacred Heart of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary

    (1) "I will give them all the graces necessary in their state of life.

    (2) I will establish peace in their homes.

    (3) I will comfort them in all their afflictions.

    (4) I will be their secure refuge during life, and above all, in death.

    (5) I will bestow abundant blessings upon all their undertakings.

    (6) Sinners will find in my Heart the source and infinite ocean of mercy.

    (7) Lukewarm souls shall become fervent.

    (8) Fervent souls shall quickly mount to high perfection.

    (9) I will bless every place in which an image of my Heart is exposed and honored.

    10) I will give to priests the gift of touching the most hardened hearts.

    (11) Those who shall promote this devotion shall have their names written in my Heart.

    (12) I promise you in the excessive mercy of my Heart that my all-powerful love will grant to all those who receive Holy Communion on the First Fridays in nine consecutive months the grace of final perseverance; they shall not die in my disgrace, nor without receiving their sacraments. My divine Heart shall be their safe refuge in this last moment."

    Booklady and Mario like this.
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    This is evasion David. Of course you know the question Picadillo is asking.
    So what if he had just spent a decade discerning? And had decided his marriage was null.
    No one is allowed to decide this for themselves. That is what an annulment proceeding is for.

    The question Picadillo was asking was will there be different policies on reception of the Holy Eucharist in different dioceses?
    I don't know the answer to that as it hasn't happened yet, but that cannot be good for the Church in any sense if it does happen. We are Catholic, meaning universally we hold the same truths.
    There can be only one truth.
    Booklady, Harper, Dolours and 3 others like this.
  9. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    Thank you Praetorian. Of course I assumed that according to AL and the most liberal diocese that my first marriage was null and void. What a can of worms the pope has opened and it can only lead to universal communion, like the protestants. This is the definition of apostasy. Correct me if I am wrong DavidT, Janet, or anyone.
  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I never like to speculate on what might be and I don't like to say anything negative about the Pope. Whether I agree with him or not I have the utmost respect for the position he holds. He is the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Some may consider me too cautious, but I am waiting to see if this "each diocese can decide for themselves who receives Holy Eucharist" actually becomes policy or if it fails.

    That being said, I despise this kind of evasive answer that David gave. It is modernist speak through and through.
    Say yes if you mean yes and no if you mean no.
    He is very intelligent. He knew very well what you meant but sidestepped the question.
    Why? Because on some level I would guess he knows there is something dodgy about answering yes.
    In time I have no doubt he will see the light, he is my brother in Christ and I care for the good of his soul.
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    What extraordinary people you are!! Picadillo asked a fairly straightforward question which I answered as accurately as I could without evading anything. What I apparently failed to do was answer what Picadillo had meant to say :rolleyes: And I am then accused of evasion, modernist speaking etc etc. Poor Pope Francis doesn't stand a chance with such an attitude in some of his critics.

    Nevertheless, I will try to answer the question that I think Picadillo is asking. If, over a period of time you had, together with a good priest, discerned that your first marriage had not been valid according to the Church and your conscience, then with the agreement of your priest, it might be possible and appropriate to receive Holy Communion (in any diocese). You can't fool God. If you actually thought your first marriage was valid then it doesn't matter what the priest said,
  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    So there’s your answer Picadillo. If you are divorced and remarried without an annulment and you want to receive Holy Communion anywhere in the world, just drive to a diocese where the bishop will allow you to and talk with a priest there. No need to worry about what your local bishops’ guidelines are for proper reception in your diocese when you go home. Maybe he is too “old fashioned” and "stuffy". All worried about "rules" and doing things "correctly". Couldn't get an annulment? Not to worry.

    (For anyone with a sarcasm deficiency who may read this post in the future, I am not recommending diocese jumping to find a priest who will give you Holy Communion. If you are living in a state of adultery that would be very damaging to your soul and a great affront to Our Lord)

    I think the key phrase in David’s response is “You can’t fool God” That is about all he wrote that I agree with.
    picadillo likes this.
  13. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    I don't have to go to confession because that is between God and me. I go directly to God. You know you can't fool God. ............Where does this madness end??????????????
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Hey, doesn't this exist already?
    I think it has a name...
    Oh yeah, Protestantism.
  15. Harper

    Harper Guest

    About conscience, this is from the Catechism. It talks about formation of conscience, which is guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church. This is a reason why Church teaching always must be clear!


    1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

    1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

    1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55


    1786 Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.

    1787 Man is sometimes confronted by situations that make moral judgments less assured and decision difficult. But he must always seriously seek what is right and good and discern the will of God expressed in divine law.

    1788 To this purpose, man strives to interpret the data of experience and the signs of the times assisted by the virtue of prudence, by the advice of competent people, and by the help of the Holy Spirit and his gifts.

    1789 Some rules apply in every case:

    - One may never do evil so that good may result from it;

    - the Golden Rule: "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."56

    - charity always proceeds by way of respect for one's neighbor and his conscience: "Thus sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience . . . you sin against Christ."57 Therefore "it is right not to . . . do anything that makes your brother stumble."58


    1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

    1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

    1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

    1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

    1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

    The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61
    Ed Kleese likes this.
  16. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    It's easy to mock but your conscience and how you treat it is how God will judge us. Having a word with a priest that tells you what you want to hear is an insult to God and your conscience.

    I'm sorry to say you both have made your minds up on this topic so why bother 'asking questions'? You can persuade yourself about anything but your conscience will come to warn you eventually. Pope Francis is leading us to God. You can chose your own way if you wish - protestantism did you mention?
  17. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Thanks for this. It has given forum to my own prayers and supplications for protection over my family.
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Anyone with a strong devotion to Jesus Christ present in the Holy Eucharist has to be anguished and dismayed that this pope is encouraging sacrilegious Communions. No, that does not lead to God. It leads to Protestantism. Or worse.

    Wake up!

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