Discussion in 'Books, movies, links, websites.' started by padraig, Nov 9, 2016.
I continue to read Medugorje visionaries book with real delight and joy. Not only does it contain a host of new information but it just so well written with a limpid ,clear style that wants me to just keep turning the pages and not put it down and I can this for so few books.
I have read many books about Medugorje and have follwed events closely there since way back in 1981 hen they first started so I thought I knew a little bit about the phenomena. But Mirjana has certainly opened my eyes to things!
One thing that has most especially touched my heart is the great suffering these children underwent, but Mirjana in particualr from the Communist authorites. I thought it had been a case of been arrested just the once as St Bernadette was at Lourdes or the childrne of Fatima. But their persecution was a thousand times worse. They were arrested over and over again. Mirjana was kicked out of a top High School were she was a straight A student and subsequently had to leave college after been persecuted by the professors there. We are tlaking about a real martyrdom here. On top of that her family was realy given a very,very hard time. She went through a real Dark Night when Mary stopped appearing to her.
One of the priests , Father Jakov was arrested and imprisoned and given severe beatings. I would encourage anyone who does not believe in Medugorje in particular to read this book.
It is a book that will touch hearts and change minds.
It's good. I just finished reading it last week. It was very encouraging. I had no idea how much Mirjana had suffered. The part where she describes meeting St Pope John Paul in Rome and talking to him was very moving. Would anyone on the forum in the UK like me to send you my used copy ? I have finished with it now. If so, DM me.
Funny I have just gotten to the point where Mirjana had a persoanl audience with Pope St John Paul at Castel Gandolfo just a few miles to the south of Rome. He met her in his garden and said that , 'Medugorje is the hope of the world' Which is quite something.
Mirjana writes very beautifully about Our Lady for a while, quoting the saints and scripture but there is one form Pope St John Paul which made me sit up and take notice. The saint says that just as Mary leads us to the feet of Jesus so Jesus leads us to the feet of Mary. I had never ever thoguht of that before , that Jesus leads us back to Mary. It is quite beautiful.
Another quote she gives and which is quite gorgeous:
"We never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son."
--Saint Louis Marie de Montfort
For those who like to post on facebook here is a meme I made if you like to share.
I downloaded from Amazon free. I've read as far as the start of the war. It's beautifully written, a real page turner. I never realised how much she suffered.
Just imagine they talked to Our Lady constantly years face to face!
There is always a rpice in terms of the Cross. Great Crosses, great Crowns. I feel ,reading between the lines a kind of hard edge to heaven and the citizens of heaven. We must seek the Will of God in everything. In heaven they are like compasses they always, always always point to heaven . Here on Earth we say, 'Thy will be done'. But none of us ever mean that wholly, not when it comes down to it.
I notice that they got together and prayered for teh seventh secret to be mitigated and it was.. it seems t have been a very Great Chastisement. However Our Lady warned them never to pray for such a thing again as they were going against the Will of God.
THat is like ourselves at the moment . We cannot see the bigger picture, therefore we fail to accept...
This is puzzling to me.
My impression was that our Lady always asks us to pray, so that chastisements will be mitigated.
I went to see film on Medjugorje this week. One thing that really struck me was the visible pain of seperation she experiences when her apparition is over
I had to look this up too because I remembered it slightly differently.
On page 121 of the book is where Mirjana discusses this. When she got the seventh secret, she was alone with Our Lady and asked Her if it could be diminished. Our lady said "Pray", which Mirjana did with fervor, drawing everyone into the mission, including a prayer group. Eight months later Our Lady told her that by the grace of God, the chastisement was softened but she also told Mirjana that she should never again ask if any secret could be lessened because God's will must be done.
I didn't understand this to mean that we can't pray for this, but that Mirjana must not ask this of God through Our Lady.
Still reading the book. Mirjana is married now. They are living in their new house in Medugorje but are deeply in debt. Mirjana works as office administrator in in a Travel Agency in the village.
Mirjana told a story which I found very touching. One day a man whose family who had just been evisted with his family andwho had not a penny in the world came into Mijana's office. Mirjana at once handed over her months wages to the man. I was very touched by this on several levels . Fistly the sheer spontaneous generosity she showed. She was deeply in debt herself and yet gave her own months wages. Her husband, Marko when told went along with this. This was heroic. I admire it becuse if I give even a few pounds it causes me to sweat blood. But each of us must do as we can. One time a guy asked a very holy priest , 'Father how much should I give on the collection plate each Sunday?'. To which the priest replied, 'Give until it hurts a little'. Which is so wise. Well it takes very little to make me hurt. If I gave my months wages it would cause me to expire.
But I thought it was brave of Mirjana to share this. I think there is a natural proper reticense to sharing something like this, she went out on a limb and shared. I appreciate this.
But when we can see right before us a very great need it makes such a difference. One time , before my conversion I was in a pub, as I very often was , having a drink when a lady came in looking for her husband. She reminded me so much of her mother. The father was drinking his wages and the poor woman had no money to make dinner for her whole family. THe woman was crying as she told me this. I gave her all the money I had with me and asked her to wait as I rushed home to garner , beg steal or borrow all the dough I could gather. But when I got back to the bar the poor lady was gone. I was very upset. She had not waited and I had a pile of cash ofr her to see her through the week.
Immediate need sets our hearts on fire and I did not even pray back then. It is the same on the forum when we see some of the prayers of petition they go throguh the heart like a knife so how can we not respond?
I so admire people who are naturally generous. They remind me so much of God the Father in this. In this we most see the face of Christ.
this book is so heart felt, it's like having her next to you in conversation....I guess that comes from 40 years of conversations with the Blessed Mother
Just curious how you reconcile the number of messages deemed as heresy/modernism coming from them, which my understanding is why they still are not recognized and approved by the Catholic church and most (all?) traditional Catholic theologists despite requests for investigation. :shrug:
Perhaps you would illustrate some, 'Modrenist', messages and we could address them?
Not being recognised by the Church is not equivelanet to being condemned.
The appations in Medugorje began in 1981. For instance the Appartions at Laus , France only gained official approval in 2008 although the first apaprition was in 1664. About 350 years later. The CHurch had a reputaion of taking a very long time in approving or turning down such pehnomena. That does not presuppose that are not true.
I don;t want to fight the Medugorje battle over again. My usual response to people who question is simply to say, go and see for yourself.
Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.
However I am curious in this of the messages. Quote a message to me that you believe to be modernist and we will examine this together and see. Not to have a big row over it, but to look at it with an open and honest heart; not to win arguments but to seek the turth.
So go ahead post one the troubles you:
I might even get to spell Medjugorje right.
None bother me as I place no faith in these particular claims, but instead humble myself before God and place the direction of my heart with him, Jesus, and Mary. There are numerous websites that address/argue the various issues for those who either consider or choose to go there. Otherwise I have no aspiration to be omnipotent or all knowing WRT any other person's heart or intentions. That is soley the domain of God.
Our Lady's requests are simple and succint. Is She not our True Mother? Does She not direct us with the purest loving and caring intention on how we should devote ourselves to the pure salvation of her Immaculate Heart with our souls? Should we not respect and obey these words to ease the terrible sorrows we have all caused Her and our Brother Jesus above all our other feeble interests and pursuits?
Our Lady of Akita's Three Messages to Sr. Agnes Katsuo Sasagawa:
July 6, 1973
The first message:
Sr. Agnes heard a voice coming from the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the chapel where she was praying. "My daughter, my novice, you have obeyed me well in abandoning all to follow me. Is the infirmity of your ears painful? Your deafness will be healed, be sure. Does the wound of your hand cause you to suffer? Pray in reparation for the sins of men. Each person in this community is my irreplaceable daughter. Do you say well the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist? Then, let us pray it together: "Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, truly present in the Holy Eucharist I consecrate my body and soul to be entirely one with Your Heart being sacrificed at every instant on all the altars of the world and giving praise to the Father, pleading for the coming of His Kingdom." Please receive this humble offering of myself. Use me as You will for the glory of the Father and the salvation of souls." "Most holy Mother of God, never let me be separated from Your Divine Son. Please defend and protect me as Your Special Child. Amen."
Augustus 3, 1973
The second message:
"If you love the Lord, listen to what I have to say to you. It is very important; you will convey it to your superior. Many men in this world afflict the Lord. I desire souls to console him to soften the anger of the heavenly father. I wish, with my son, for souls who will repair by their suffering and their poverty for the sinners and ingrates. In order that the world might know his anger, the heavenly father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the father. I have prevented the coming of calamities by offering him the sufferings of the son on the cross, his precious blood, and beloved souls who console him forming a cohort of victim souls. Prayer, penance and courageous sacrifices can soften the father's anger. ... Even in a secular institute, prayer is necessary. Already souls who wish to pray are on the way to being gathered together. Without attaching too much attention to the form, be faithful and fervent in prayer to console the master."
October 13, 1973
The final message:
"You have still something to ask? Today is the last time I will speak to you in a living voice. From now on you will obey the one sent to you (Father Yasuda) and your superior. My dear daughter, listen well to what I have to say to you. You will inform your superior. As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither Priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms that will remain for you will be the Rosary and Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the Bishops, and the Priests. “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
In 1982 the Divine Intervention of Our Lady's Promise made itself known when Sr. Sasagawas' affliction of deafness was cleansed and healed.
To our new member 'DevotedToOurLady' - are you posting from New Zealand??
I would love to travel to the beautiful land of New Zealand some day, but no, I live in the United States in the Dallas, Texas metroplex area.
My heart goes out to NZ regarding the recent difficulties of the earthquakes there. May the grace and love of God be with you during these difficult and trying times.
Oh ok. Your posting style reminds me of someone, more so with your profile pic depicting Our Lady of Akita
A wonderful book!
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