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Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by Paddy O Keeffe, May 21, 2015.

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  1. padraig

    padraig New Member



    Ignoring the apparitions in Medjugorje is unforgivable for Christians, says Rome’s leading exorcist who shakes his head at those who wait until the Church has ruled. Speaking of “betrayal” Fr. Gabriele Amorth also lashes out at bishops and priests for being indifferent to the fruits of Medjugorje.


    Fr. Gabriele Amorth (born 1925) was ordained a priest in 1954 and became an official exorcist in 1986. For about 20 years he served as chief exorcist for the Diocese of Rome. In 1990 he founded the International Association of Exorcists whose president he was until his retirement in 2000, now being honorary president for life. Throughout the years Fr. Amorth has embraced Medjugorje, and he has called the place "a great fortress against Satan"

    By willingly failing to pay attention to the Virgin Mary’s apparitions in Medjugorje, a great number of Christians have proven to be no different from pagans. Within this great number, both bishops and priests are included, the leading Catholic exorcist of the past 20 years said in a September 15 interview given to Radio Maria.

    Fr. Gabriele Amorth was speaking at the backdrop of the Virgin Mary’s message of August 25 when she said:

    “Dear children! Today I call you to pray and fast for my intentions, because Satan wants to destroy my plan. Here I began with this parish and invited the entire world. Many have responded, but there is an enormous number of those who do not want to hear or accept my call. Therefore, you who have said ‘yes’, be strong and resolute. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

    “How bitter, how bitter was the last message of Our Lady of Medjugorje, on August 25: ”Many have responded, but there is an enormous number of those who do not want to hear or accept my call’, Fr. Gabriele Amorth first commented.

    “Now look here; it is very sour, this balance. After more than thirty years! More than thirty years! Now if it is the pagans who don’t listen to Our Lady’s words, then that I can understand. But be you a Christian, it is not forgivable. Be you a Christian!”.

    Torrentum, hope and Miriam like this.
  2. Charity

    Charity Mercy

    thanks for sharing- your stories take me right back there
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I don't know if you experienced this Charity, but one unusual thing I noticed was this.

    People kept coming up to me and pouring their hearts out really. I don't know how else to put it. They kind of told me the secrets of their hearts and their problems. This could have been a bit heavy maybe, but not at all ,I found it a great grace.

    For instance there was one old lady in a wheelchair who was dying of cancer. She died a couple of months after coming back to Ireland. Her only son had died in her arms about a year before and her grief, was just terrible, terrible. like the Pieta. But on talking to me she revealed this huge fear of dying. But on the very last day before she went home, well I can only say she was laughing, there had been some huge kind of healing went on. I heard she had a good death.

    In this life it is hard to find someone who will simply listen. That's all, just to really listen. But out there everyone had a story and I think people were really listening. This is no small thing.

    Some people ask why if Mary is appearing at Medugorje why it is so important? After all we have the fulness of the Faith and the Sacraments.

    Well imagine you get a knock at a door and you peer out the window and who is standing at the door but the Blessed Virgin Mary with a crowd of friends from heaven. What would would you think , what would you feel? What would you do?

    Well I suppose what you would do is just about fall over backwards in joy delight and wonder, that's what you would do and hurry to open the door and welcome your guest in with utter delight and wonder.

    One thing you would not do is to hem and haw and close the door in her face.

    That's why it's important.

    Luke 2:7

    The Birth of Jesus
    6While they were there, the days were completed for her to give birth. 7And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

  4. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Thank you for your personal testimony. I have been to Medjugorje 15 times. My mother visited there in the early 80's and slept on someone's floor as there were no facilities there at the time. I personally have not witnessed extraordinary phenomenon but my heart has certainly experienced healing and consolation that I cant begin to describe. My 3 children have visited there and each has been converted by the experience and continue to live out their catholic faith which is at times difficult in the environment we find ourselves in. My son in law visited there with my daughter before they got married and since converted to the catholic faith and also lives out that commitment. I have many friends and acquaintances who have witnessed extraordinary things there but the one thing common to all is that they are a changed people who try their best to live as faithful Catholics.
    I await the commission and even if negative I in my heart know that our lives have been changed and enriched by Medjugorje and I will continue to believe and pray to Our Lady Queen of Peace. If Our Lady chose not to visit for the past 34 years I dont know where my faith would be because my faith has not been fed by the church in Ireland for many years.
    I think the fulfillment of all things is close so watch and pray and dont worry. God's Will will triumph.
    PotatoSack likes this.
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Torrentum, hope and Miriam like this.
  6. Bella, what you assert is misinformation. The bishops of Bosnia and Herzegovia asked Vatican (CDF) to take over the investigations, the Vatican spokeman Fr. Lombardi has said in 2010. He said: ...so the bishops of Bosnia and Herzegovina have asked the CDF to take over investigations, the Vatican spokesman explained.

    Read the whole article.
  7. Only God can create matter out of nothing! The devil can do a lot of things. Satan can fake bilocation by carrying his seer someplace quickly, but only God can allow someone to be in two places at the same time, as in the case of Padre Pio and Mary Agreda. He can turn the colors of the rosaries. Not a big trick. Would our Lady do such things? No.

    I have seen a list of miracles what the evil one can perform, but don't find it now. It was written some saint or church father or like. The list was very long and impressive. So, stay calm when you hear about miracles. The biggest miracle is the Eucharist.
    Praetorian likes this.
  8. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Talking of exorcists, another one who has given a very strong testimony to miraculous healing in Medjugorje and whom I rate very highly is Fr Piotr/Peter Glas, a Polish priest based in Gosport in England and linked to the Charismatic Renewal in Poland. I have just watched an 80 minute video (in Polish only at the moment, unfortunately) that he just produced in conjunction with the Ruch Czystych Serc ('Movement of Pure Hearts') on sexuality and the demonic which includes some gut-wrenching but exceptionally instructive audio and analysis of an exorcism he carried out on a woman in Slough. This sort of material is important as there are many so-called exorcists out there (at least in France) who have little or no practical experience and, apparently, even some who do not believe in the existence of our Adversary! Piotr Glas is absolutely the real McCoy, and his retreats for young people in Poland, to which I have listened to quite a few, are very powerful (he's part of a dynamic younger generation of Polish exorcists who are very upfront in the way that they talk about spiritual warfare and also very down-to-earth, which shouldn't be a surprise given that the sectors of society in which they often operate are some of the toughest). I take his word seriously because of the time that he spends down 'in the trenches'; what he has to say about Our Lady doesn't come from head knowledge but personal experience of the reaction of the demonic to her presence during the brutal battle that is exorcism. As for his testimony concerning Medjugorje, judge for yourselves...
  9. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    The fruits of Medjugorje: priest against priest, cardinal against cardinal, exorcist against exorcist, etc.

    All the mentioned "good fruits" of Medjugorge become secondary if the Devil can sow disobedience and division. This has really been a sad episode, a scandal if you ask me, in the Church and it is ashamed that it has taken the Church this long to finally render a definitive judement, one that we will hopefully see by the end of this month.

    And the more I think about it, I am really struck by the contrast between Medjugorje and Garabandal. Yes, Garabandal is still an unapproved apparition (and I will obey the Church's ultimate decision on Garabandal) but I can't help but notice the contrast between the two, especially as it regards the behavior of the seers. Perhaps God has allowed these two unapproved apparitions to exist side by side as a test. Perhaps as Medjugorje comes to and end, Garabandal will take on greater significance.
    Praetorian likes this.
  10. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Being Christian is seeking Jesus, not looking for seers, pope says
    Posted on June 9, 2015 by Administrator1
    Pope Francis holds up letters he received from young people during a visit to St. Mary Mother of the Redeemer Parish on the outskirts of Rome in March. (CNS/Paul Haring)

    By Carol Glatz Catholic News Service

    VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Being Christian is looking for, following and imitating Jesus Christ — nothing more, Pope Francis said at his morning Mass.

    Being Christian is not looking for those who always have something new to reveal, saying, “‘Where are the seers who will tell us today about the letter that Our Lady will send at four o’clock in the afternoon?’ for example,” he said.

    “This is not Christian identity. God’s final word is called ‘Jesus’ and nothing more,” the pope said June 9 during the Mass in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae.

    Christian identity is “beautiful” and concrete, he said, according to Vatican Radio; it is seen in a living witness to Christ, the Beatitudes and the “Judgment of the Nations,” which refers to feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and the other actions mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46.

    However, because of human sin, Christians may not be faithful to their identity and may be tempted to weaken or misplace it, the pope said.

    The danger of a weakened identity is seen when someone “goes from witness to ideas, watering down witness: ‘Well, sure, I am Christian. Christianity is like so, a beautiful idea. I pray to God,'” the pope said.

    The person goes from concrete Gospel commandments to “this religion that’s a bit ‘soft,’ in the air and on the path of the Gnostics,” who emphasized special knowledge over witness.

    The danger of losing the proper focus of Christian identity can be seen with “those who always need some novelty” and don’t realize it all begins and ends with Jesus.

    They have “forgotten that they have been chosen, anointed,” and have the Holy Spirit, not seers, to guide them.

    The pope did not specifically refer to Medjugorje, the site of continuing alleged apparitions. Yet, the pope told reporters June 6 that the Vatican was getting ready to make an announcement concerning an investigation into the claims of six people who have said Mary began appearing to them daily in 1981 and giving them messages.

    There is also the risk of being too open to the world and “widening the conscience so much that everything fits in there. ‘Yes, we are Christian, but this is OK …,'” Pope Francis said.

    Being too much of the world and too ambiguous is seen in Christians who “cannot and do not know how to give witness to Jesus Christ.”

    Jesus “became man and died out of obedience,” the pope said, and “this is identity and there lies witness.”

    He asked that people pray for God’s gift of identity and not try to water it down, put it on the wrong track or mold it to the things of the world.
    Richard67 likes this.
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    The Vatican just came out with another cancellation of a Medjugorje event:


    I just wanted to say that although I am not in favor of Medjugorje, I do think that the people who follow it are often very genuine and sincere and I will take no joy in their upset if the Vatican comes out with a negative pronouncement. I think how difficult it would be for me if they came out with a positive pronouncement. I would be stunned and wonder what happened.

    What is even more scary is how both sides in this debate can come up with top notch people high in the hierarchy of the Church that both support or condemn it. Whatever side you are on, you must agree that there is indeed a diabolical disorientation of one side or the other. This greatly saddens me as a Catholic. I wasn't alive in the 60's or before, but I think Catholics were not as divided into little cliques as they are today. Divide and conquer. That is the devil's plan.

    I call myself a traditional Catholic, but what I really mean is that I pray the Rosary, say Novena's, am reverent towards the Eucharist etc. In essence I am really just Catholic. I have to include the "traditional" moniker with my friends to let them understand that I am more than just a Sunday church-goer. That being Catholic is a lifestyle, not a church I attend once a week.

    God please bless all here and keep us unified.
    Mac likes this.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    'Sign of Contradiction', is our family name; it should not scandalise us.

    Luke 2:34

    34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted;

    Acts 28:22
    22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest; for as concerning this sect, we know that it is everywhere contradicted.


    Peter B likes this.
  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I listened to this some months back, Peter, very very powerful.
  14. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Matthew 10:34-35
    Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
  15. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Principalities

    Just looking at this in broad strokes without getting bogged down in the minutiae of Balkan history, a famous graveyard of the peace of Europe:

    1) Yes it's true that many aspects of the Croatian history in the Second World War make very sad reading, and simply doesn't reflect too well on many of them at that time, to be honest and forthright about it. They allied with Hitler and did have at least one horrible concentration camp. The Croats themselves don't deny this and to a certain extent identify themselves with Germans in a kind of collective shame about this history.

    2. At the same time though their enemies in the communists/ Serbs were not all nice people, who indeed massacred many Croatians including 400 priests or so after the war.

    3. Then it's true that the early 90s wars were pretty savage at times, and to a degree would resemble North Belfast in the early 70s (and Bosnia would reflect that a little still) but again it's not true at all that the Muslims, say, we're the good guys and the Croats not, as some in the western media presented it.

    4. Finally it's also the case that a good old fashioned territorial dispute, since at least 1881 and probably a lot earlier, is occurring between the regulars and the secular clergy in the area, in particular in Herzogovina, which is the Southern province in Bosnia Herzogovina.

    Ok that's the picture, we don't necessarily need to get into the nitty gritty to weight this up.

    Fair enough so there have been bloodthirsty goings on there since whenever, so? Remember we are talking about an apparition where Our Lady advocates peace, and mercy to your enemies and all people's etc. Well isn't that appropriate for such a spot then? And unless you are going to take the literal view that Croats are so irredeemably bad that Our Lady would never want to appear to them - so contrary to the kindness and mercy we know associated with Her - then all that history means very little.

    Besides this is not a politics/ history issue, this is a religious thing which is above all that. Look at it this way: if I heard of an apparition in South Armagh or somewhere am I going to spend all my time researching this by ploughing through the endless historical/ political/ military goings on as opposed to just concentrating on the theology of the messages and lives of the visionaries, which would seem to be the only relevant stuff?

    The same applies to this ancient territorial dispute between the secular and regular clergy. I know enough about Church politics in general to know that these historical disputes are a permanent fixture on the ecclesiastical landscape. If canon lawyers didn't have a steady stream of these disputes to argue over all over the world they'd all be unemployed in the morning!

    The point is that nobody should make too much of these kind of disputes, they can flare up on occasion but you find the clergy usually get on with the job at the end of the day. You should read for example about the dispute over the primacy of Armagh between St Oliver Plunkett and Peter Talbot if you'd like to be shocked at the blood thirstiness of these internal Church disputes, but it didn't stop these two holy men from being close friends throughout that difficult time in Ireland.

    Bottom line it's got to be a distraction to drag the events of Medgugorje into this ancient turf war, or to accuse the visionaries of disobedience based on where they stand on such a complicated and long running argument.

    Also disputes between the relevant powers of bishops and regular orders is absolutely one of the great battlegrounds in Church disputes all over the world, and in general it would be an exaggeration of the powers of a bishop to expect him to have total power over a parish run by a Regular order. Generally speaking they are only under their provincial superiors, who in turn are under the generals of their orders who are located in Rome and operate directly under the Vatican.

    Anyway I think that dragging Balkan history into this, recent or ancient, and similarly bringing up very old ecclesiastical disputes, is a massive distraction from the central issues of Medgugorje and people just shouldn't chase their tails through those bogs in order to test the veracity, or otherwise, of Medgugorje.

    So I think anyways...
  16. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    The problem with the headline from Brian's article is that Pope Francis didn't say that. Similarly, 'Vatican Insider' has as a headline - Francis: "Don’t live your lives according to what seers tell you". But of course neither of these 'quotes' are accurate.

    Nevertheless, Pope Francis did, today, in his homily in Santa Marta warn those of us who do believe in the reality of contemporary apparitions to beware of 'becoming too obsessed' with them (my quote, not his!).

    The Vatican website quotes Francis words in this way: "so they are always searching for some “novelty” in their Christian identity. They say “Where are the visionaries who can tell us exactly what message Our Lady will be sending at 4’o’clock this afternoon?”, he joked." - http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-dont-weaken-or-water-down-christian-i

    So there is no doubt Pope Francis is warning Medjugorje lovers, as well as lovers of locutions and apparitions in general, not to lose the focus of their Christian life which must always be Jesus. But anyone who is thinking that Pope Francis is somehow 'sending signals' that Medjugorje is not authentic is making a big mistake. It is an understandable mistake but time will show it to be a mistake nonetheless.
  17. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    I disagree.

    Days after Medjugorje comment, Pope downplays predictable visions
    Pope Francis’ reference to predictable visions comes just days after he disclosed to journalists that a decision on the authenticity of the alleged Medjugorje apparitions could be coming soon.

    “We’re at this point of making decisions … and then they will be announced,” the Pope told journalists during a brief in-flight news conference June 6 while on his way back from the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo. He also revealed that “some guidelines will be given to bishops on the lines they will take.”

    In his daily homily Nov. 14, 2013, Francis cautioned against a misguided “spirit of curiosity” that can also take our vision off Christ, focusing instead on such predictable visions.

    One might be tempted to say “But I know a visionary, who receives letters from Our Lady, messages from Our Lady,” he said on that occasion. Our Lady, he stressed, “is the Mother of everyone! And she loves all of us. She is not a postmaster, sending messages every day.”
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    You may, or may not be aware that I am a great supporter of the True Life in God messages from Vassula. For many years, Vassula has warned readers of the TLIG messages in exactly the same way as Pope Francis has on these two occasions you quote. She has always spoken of such people as 'butterflies' flying from one thing to another in search of novelty. She has always reacted negatively to those who would ask her whether she has received any new messages recently. Pope Francis is simply speaking in exactly that way.
  19. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Principalities

    Actually that's a theme you can read in many Marian apparition episodes, including Medgugorje in fact. Our Lady dislikes people being attracted to these things, or at least being obsessed, with a view to finding out secrets or too explicit an insight into real world events. There is a bit of that too but mostly She wants people to get the message as regards prayer etc, not staying with just a love of novelties or whatever.
    Peter B likes this.
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