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Medjugorje - the Commission findings

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by davidtlig, May 16, 2017.

  1. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Medjugorje, Parolin, “The Holy See wants to regulate the phenomenon”

    The Vatican Secretary of State is visiting Croatia. On the canonization of Stepinac, "The Pope's wish is that the issue does not create tensions but helps in the common path".

    [​IMG]
    Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Parolin

    Pubblicato il 01/11/2017

    SALVATORE CERNUZIO
    VATICAN CITY
    During his ongoing visit to Croatia, the Cardinal answered some questions of journalists to whom - Sir reports - he recalled that the results of the Commission led by Cardinal Camillo Ruini and whose task is to clarify the "phenomenon" of the Marian apparitions, begun in 1981 and ongoing, in the village of Herzegovina, which every year attracts hundreds of thousands of faithful and pilgrims, are all "in the hands of the Holy Father".

    There is not only the "supernatural" dimension of the events to be analyzed, the Cardinal also pointed out that the "pastoral care" of pilgrims is equally important. Reason why the Pope last 11 February, appointed the Polish Archbishop Henryk Hoser as his "special envoy", not to make an additional investigation, but - as stated in a Vatican communiqué - "with the aim of acquiring a deeper knowledge of the pastoral situation there and above all, of the needs of the faithful who go there in pilgrimage."

    Again, with the Croatian press, Parolin has taken up another equally thorny issue, which has remained unanswered until now: the canonization of Blessed Alojzije Stepinac. The archbishop of Zagreb is a figure who, decades later, has created a deep fracture between the Catholic Croats who acclaim him as a holy pastor and the Orthodox Serbs who accuse him of having been a collaborator of the Nazi-fascist regime in the period of the Second World War.

    A year ago, a joint commission between the Croatian Episcopal Conference and the Serbian Orthodox Church was set up on Stepinac's work during those dramatic years, which concluded its work in Casa Santa Marta last 12-13 July, under the guidance of the president of the Pontifical Committee of Historical Sciences, Father Bernard Ardura, who, however, was unable to achieve "a univocal interpretation".

    Parolin, nevertheless, states, "I believe that the Commission's work has been useful and that this process has helped to foster dialogue and common understanding". The wounds that leave the historical facts cannot be overcome overnight - he added - ". It is important to keep firm the direction towards which we are going and work for communion and peace. Inter-religious and ecumenical dialogue is a fundamental instrument for achieving this goal ".

    The documents produced by the Commission for the "common reinterpretation" of the life and work of Archbishop Stepinac are, like those of Medjugorje, "in the hands" of the Pontiff, the Secretary of State explained. And he reiterated that "the wish" of Pope Bergoglio "is that this issue should not create tensions between the two peoples, but that it should help in the common path". In any case, "the issue is internal to the Catholic Church and I think it is important to underline it".

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/11/01/v...phenomenon-vDA0EK4qM7soGbOLuQNS2O/pagina.html
     
  2. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    The Holy See wants in on the cash flow.
     
  3. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    How do those who do not consider the Medjugorje apparitions of supernatural origin (like the current pope) explain some of the seers crashing down to the floor on their knees? The impact would break their kneecaps, especially as it happens frequently. The same happened in Garabandal and also happens to Edson Glauber from the Amazon and a number of other seers.

    Check out the videos below.

    Go to 11:15 mark here (ouch!)



    And 1:50 mark here:

     
  4. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    More here (go to 2:35 - ouch again!). And Vicka has experienced severe back problems for a number of years. Could a fit, young athlete do that and cause no damage whatsoever to his knees and back?



    And 1:35 here:

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  5. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! New Member

    I think what he is "suggesting" is a total of 40,000 apparitions since they began in 1981. It does sound hokey and unclear though, as though meant to subtly misguide. As I have been following this since I think 2013, I concur with your observation of the 2nd and 25th of each month. Mirjana receives one on the 2nd and on her birthday. Marija receives on on the 25th. The others have their own special day. They stopped receiving daily apparitions when they received all 10 events.
     
  6. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! New Member

    We all need discernment and clarity when processing remarkable spiritual experiences. With the numbers of pilgrims who have traveled to places such as Medjugorje and other sites where our Lady has appeared, there are bound to be those who are so on fire with love of God and our Mother, it can be difficult to find the right person or people to share it with so to process in such a way that the evil one does not cause wrong distraction. This can be difficult whether you've traveled or not. Our Mother's purpose in coming and for being has always been to bring us all closer to her Son, our Great Lord Jesus Christ. Let us NEVER forget that. Time is too close... much more will be understood at the coming of the Illumination/Warning/Day of Mercy. All will know their Creator and God. What humanity does with that information is yet to be known. Some will perish, others will truly live in God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit loving and honoring the Mother of Humanity, Queen of Heaven and Earth.

    I had such a remarkable experience with I traveled to Italy with my choir. When I returned and shared it with my Spiritual Director, she asked me a question that has stayed with me: "You've been to the mountain top. Now what are you going to do with that experience?" Pray for those wayward Catholics and those who do not know the Lord. Pray to be Christ's mercy to those who have been away. I had the most remarkable conversation with a friend recently who has been away for 40 years. Turns out, she never wanted to leave and has always wanted to return!! Glory be to God!!

     
  7. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! New Member

    We all need discernment and clarity when processing remarkable spiritual experiences. With the numbers of pilgrims who have traveled to places such as Medjugorje and other sites where our Lady has appeared, there are bound to be those who are so on fire with love of God and our Mother, it can be difficult to find the right person or people to share it with so to process in such a way that the evil one does not cause wrong distraction. This can be difficult whether you've traveled or not. Our Mother's purpose in coming and for being has always been to bring us all closer to her Son, our Great Lord Jesus Christ. Let us NEVER forget that. Time is too close... much more will be understood at the coming of the Illumination/Warning/Day of Mercy. All will know their Creator and God. What humanity does with that information is yet to be known. Some will perish, others will truly live in God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit loving and honoring the Mother of Humanity, Queen of Heaven and Earth.

    I had such a remarkable experience with I traveled to Italy with my choir. When I returned and shared it with my Spiritual Director, she asked me a question that has stayed with me: "You've been to the mountain top. Now what are you going to do with that experience?" Pray for those wayward Catholics and those who do not know the Lord. Pray to be Christ's mercy to those who have been away. I had the most remarkable conversation with a friend recently who has been away for 40 years. Turns out, she never wanted to leave and has always wanted to return!! Glory be to God!!
     
  8. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! New Member

    Julia, I couldn't agree with you more! As I have been reading some of St Pio's stories as well as St Faustina, yes, they were met with much chastisement as well. I think I read on that site that apparitions there would continue until the Illumination or the Permanent Sign is left?? I don't know but I can't imagine any apparitions were ever approved while they were still occurring. Medjugorje is unprecedented in its length. Why is anyone surprised at the lack of full approval for that reason alone? The local Bishop didn't accept Fatima until the Sun Danced.
     
  9. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! New Member

    HEARHEAR!!! I could hug you for this! God bless all here.:D
     
  10. Dean

    Dean Archangels


    I tend to believe these are true, but one thing that seems weird watching these videos, when Mary appears they seem to be doing A LOT of talking, their mouths are moving a lot. Don't you think they should be there just listening a whole lot more than talking? And when her lips stop always really short. (Just watched the first video) Just an observation and again I tend to believe that these are, or at least they started out as true apparations.
     
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Do not forget the devil had quite a sweep of preternatural powers. Especially today when his powers have been increased to their maximum. The demons can do everything from simulating stigmata to levitation. That is why "proofs" like these are never used to determine authenticity. Assisting someone to their knees would not be very difficult for him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    Dolours likes this.
  12. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    Praetorian, 100% agree, but the question is, the messages at Madjugorje, as far as i know have never been contrary to church teachings. So why would a demon do that?
     
    Blizzard likes this.
  13. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Never thought of that, but not all seers talk a lot. Mirjiana, for example is a lot more circumspect, maybe due to the nature of her messages.

    But Vicka is joyful and loquacious by nature.

    And well, that´s the Mother we have in heaven! She seems to adapt herself to the seer´s personality. Out of pure love. Seer Jakob (Medj - only 10 at the time)) would ramble on about how he wished to become a football player (he never did).

    In Garabandal she would play hide and seek with the girls! Like a loving mother would. The girls would tell her about their little chores, about a cow that got sick, about a new doll they got. They would talk and laugh for hours.
     
  14. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Good point, Dean, and I never suggested their crashing down on their knees was proof of the authenticity of Medj - far from that!

    It´s one additional interesting detail, if you like. What you point out is obviously far more important.
     
  15. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I would not necessarily agree with that statement, but even if it were so, Medjugorje often causes division and rancor among Catholics. This is evident whenever someone on the forum here makes a statement that they don't believe it is from God. I have seen it happen in real life as well. Division in prayer groups, etc. I say this as a former believer in Medjugorje, so I am not looking to poke anyone in the eye with my lack of belief in it. I am quite sympathetic to those who follow it. Mostly I avoid talking about this particular apparition because of the upset it evokes.

    I have my own personal beliefs about what the whole purpose of the apparition is. I will not say I know for sure, but it is my discernment that it has been building for so long to lead up and play an important part in the deception that is unfolding in the Church. Exactly what it is I cannot say for sure, but over the decades it had built a very strong following. I will say and I think that those who believe in it and those who don't will both agree that it has a strange hold upon its followers much more than any other apparition. If someone says they don't believe in LaSalette they are not confronted for their lack of faith in it, yet this is commonplace with this apparition.

    Time will tell, we will see...
    If people do choose to follow it I would just encourage caution.
     
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  16. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

  17. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I "liked" your post even though I am a strong believer in Medj, having followed it for some 30 years and having been there three times.

    But you make a very important point: belief or lack of belief in this or that apparition should NEVER be a source of anger or division.
     
    Praetorian likes this.
  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I believe in it & I try to live the messages but it doesn't have a strange hold over me.

    If the church condemned it - this would not change my life in any way. I would continue to try to be holy!

    Likewise since it is a source of division sometimes on this forum I do not force my views on Medjugorje on anyone and respect your opinion and others opinions in this regard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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  19. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you both for the very kind and generous responses you gave to me. (y)
    I wasn't sure if I was going to get clubbed over the head ;)

    I think it is important we can all discuss these things without it getting personal, since that was surely not my intent. I think Medjugorje is one of the last dividing lines between those who can see what is going on in the Church. That being said, God will sort it all out. Just stay with Our Lady and she will look after us all :)
     
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  20. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Full disclosure: I'm not a believer in Medjugorje and have been suspicious about it since a lady I knew who visited many times told me about the rosaries turning to gold which is a sign of alchemy. That said, I know some other believers who, like that lady, are very devout Catholics.

    That the Church holds off on giving favourable decisions about ongoing apparitions, prophecies, etc. makes sense because it will only take one "gotcha" to cast doubts over authentic apparitions like Lourdes and Fatima.
     

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