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Keep the Faith

Discussion in 'Coffee House' started by padraig, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I' m not writing this for the people who are members of the forum for they already know all this but for folks who are just passing through.

    The Catholic Church is , in the fairly near future about to undergo a Schism. That is it is about to break , initially, into two parts. On the both sides will be Bishops, Cardinals and priests and many Catholics, even good Catholics may be a little confused as to what side to take, especially since the media will be very vociferous in support of one particular section. This Schism will centre in Europe and North America and will appear devastating.

    My advice to you as any obedient Catholic in any age has done is to follow Our Holy Father the Pope. Catholics may go to hell in very great numbers for disobeying the Holy Father. But I guarantee you this; no Catholic will ever go to hell for obeying the Pope. No more than a child should ever be punished for being obedient to its parents.

    What are the origins of this schism and how shall it come about. Well the roots of this schism will come about; as all heresies come about is simple pride and disobedience, The very same sin that pulled Lucifer from his thrown and caused him to fall like a star to Earth.

    The base of what these schismatics will say is this.

    These are modern times. We are all of us modern, intelligent , cultured educated people. We have to interpret the modern world in the light of the times we live in. We have to move on from the past and become relevant and give relevant moral leadership for the Times we live in. This , when you think of things is not so very different from what generations of believers have said down the ages when they have sought to go into rebellion against God.

    In the Church itself things may appear calm on the surface. But this is wrong. For generations now there are are those, who , like termites have been eating away at the pillars of the faith, seeking to rot it from within. The devil and those who do their deeds in darkness have chosen to remain hidden.

    However Our Lady intends that that which is hidden will be flushed into the open and led by Popes who are Our Lady's chosen instruments, her own sons the secret thoughts and actions of many will be laid bare.

    Take these Signs of the True Church .

    They will be obedient to the Holy Father.

    They shall have a great devotion to Our Blessed Lady.

    They shall venerate and say the Rosary.

    The Holy Sacrifice of the mass shall be at the centre of their lives.

    They shall be a people of prayer.

    The world shall hate them.

    Follow these lights and you shall not be blinded by false leaders who are about to arise in great fury, children of Satan and the Dark.

    The woman and the dragon (12:1)

    12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

    12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

    This has long been prophesied by many saints and visionaries:

    Nun Emmerich (19th century): I also saw the Holy Father– God-fearing and prayerful. Nothing left to be desired in his appearance, but he was weakened by old age and by much suffering (Dupont p. 68).

    Helen Wallraff (19th century): Some day a pope will flee from Rome in the company of only four cardinals . . . and they will come to Koeln [Cologne] (Dupont, p. 78).

    The Prophecy of Premol (5th century): And I see the King of Rome and his Cross and his tiara, shaking the dust off of his shoes, and hastening his flight to other shores. Thy Church, O Lord, is torn apart by her own children. One camp is faithful to the fleeing Pontiff, the other is subject to the new government of Rome which has broken the tiara. But Almighty God will, in His mercy, put an end to this confusion and a new age will begin. Then, said the Spirit, this is the beginning of the End of Time.

    Anna-Katarina Emmerick (19th century): I saw again a new and odd-looking Church which they were trying to build. There was nothing holy about it… (Dupont, p. 116)

    Yves Dupont {writer interpreting A. Emmerick}: They wanted to make a new Church, a Church of human manufacture, but God had other designs…The Holy Father shall have to leave Rome, and he shall die a cruel death. An anti-pope shall be set up in Rome (Dupont, p. 116).

    Jeanne le Royer (d. 1798): I see that when the Second Coming of Christ approaches a bad priest will do much harm to the Church (Culligan E. The Last World War and the End of Time. The book was blessed by Pope Paul VI, 1966. TAN Books, Rockford (IL), p. 128).

    Yves Dupont {reader and collector of Catholic prophecies}: “prophecies are quite explicit about the election of an anti-pope…Many prophecies predict an anti-pope and a schism ” (Dupont, pp. 34,60-61).

    Catholic priest and writer R. Gerald Culleton (20th century): A schism of short duration is destined to break out…An antipope, of German origin, is to be set up, and finally Rome itself will be destroyed” (Culleton, p. 42).

    Frederick William Faber (died 1863): Antichrist…Many believe in a demonical incarnation–this will not be so–but he will be utterly possessed…His doctrine as apparent contradiction of no religion, yet a new religion…He has an attending pontiff, so separating regal and prophetic office (Connor, Edward. Prophecy for Today. Imprimatur + A.J. Willinger, Bishop of Monterey-Fresno; Reprint: Tan Books and Publishers, Rockford (IL), 1984, p. 87).

    Blessed Joachim (died 1202): Towards the end of the world Antichrist will overthrow the Pope and usurp his See (Connor, p. 76).

    Merlin (7th century): There will come a German Anti-Pope. Italy and Germany will be sorely troubled. A French King will restore the true Pope (Culleton, p. 132).

    St. Francis of Assisi (d. 1226): There will be an uncanonically elected pope who will cause a great Schism, there will be divers thoughts preached which will cause many, even those in the different orders, to doubt, yea even agree with those heretics which will cause My order to divide, then will there be such universal dissentions and persecutions that if these days were not shortened even the elect would be lost (Culleton, p. 130).

    Priest E. Sylvester Berry (published 1920): It has been a matter of history that the most disastrous periods for the Church were times when the Papal throne was vacant or when anti-popes contended with the legitimate head of the Church. Thus shall it be in those evil days to come (Berry ES. The Apocalypse of St. John, 1920. Quoted in Culleton RG. The Reign of Antichrist. Reprint 1974, TAN Books, Rockford (IL), p. 195).

    Catholic writer and priest P. Huchedé (19th century): …the false prophet…will not be a king, nor a general of an army, but a clever apostate, fallen from episcopal dignity. From being an apostle of the Gospel he will become the first preacher of the false messiah…(Huchedé, P. Translated by JBD. History of Antichrist. Imprimatur Edward Charles Fabre, Bishop of Montreal. English edition 1884, Reprint 1976. TAN Books, Rockford (IL), p. 24).

    Priest Herman Kramer (20th century): This false prophet possibly at the behest of Antichrist usurps the papal supremacy…His assumed spiritual authority and supremacy over the Church would make him resemble the Bishop of Rome…He would be Pontifex Maximus, a title of pagan emperors, having spiritual and temporal authority. Assuming authority without having it makes him the False Prophet…Though he poses as a lamb, his doctrines betray him (Kramer H.B. L. The Book of Destiny. Nihil Obstat: J.S. Considine, O.P., Censor Deputatus. Imprimatur: +Joseph M. Mueller, Bishop of Sioux City, Iowa, January 26, 1956. Reprint TAN Books, Rockford (IL), p. 319 ).
    Rose, gracia, Inis Eoghain and 2 others like this.
  2. Seán

    Seán New Member

    Nice heads-up, Padraig. Perhaps there may even be an antipope, causing further confusion. It seems likely that if a significant portion of bishops and cardinals break away from the Pope, they will want to set up a Pope to suit their false ideals.
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I suppose they will , Shane. Though I would not fancy to be in his position. For if they are not obedient to the real Pope they will be a hundred times more disobedient to a false one.

    I sometimes wonder about our brothers and sisters in the Protestant sects, if they ever want a central strong authority, if they are ever a little jealous of the Catholic Church? How strange even in the one congregation that people can have radically different theological ideas. How confusing and depressing.

    I don't believe true Ecumenism will ever take place a return to unity until God intervenes in a blinding and miraculous way. People are so headstrong, the wounds too deep and a lot of it is down to us Catholics for not being a shinning light that would draw the world to our Light house.
  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    There are 1000's of Protestant churches and more are created every week
    because of divisions - usually over theological interpretation or personality

    The Reformation churches split because they are in error - there is an inbuilt
    weakness in Protestantism that leads to contiuous schisms. Their core theology
    is built on two lies [sorry any Protestant reading this but its not your fault that
    you have been 'sold a pup'!].

    The 2 great theological 'dicoveries' of Luther and the reformation

    1. SCRIPTURE ALONE - that we should be free ourselves to interpret
    the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit
    2. FAITH ALONE - faith alone saves not God's grace

    Both of these tenets of Protestantism are errors.

    The only way that the protestant sects will return to the Catholic church are
    1. Divine intervention or
    2. Protestant and Catholics endure a massive persecution together as Christians
    say by an invading Muslim army that conquers Europe.

    I know there are millions of good Protestant Christians in the world that have a
    greater zeal for Jesus than I do so the grace of God can work anyway but I do
    believe Jesus wants unity as he prayed a wonderful prayer to the Father that we
    might be one.

    Any Protestant sincerely seeking God's heart who has the courage to read the early Church
    fathers and desires truely in his/her heart to follow Jesus 100% will become a Catholic!!
    gracia likes this.
  5. Mario

    Mario Powers

    So True! You come up with some choice pearls, garabandal!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

  6. This Schism may come sooner than we think. What has not really been discussed in the media, amidst all the coverage of National Healthcare, is what will come of all the Catholic Hospitals in the USA if the Federal Government takes over healthcare? Some of the hospitals will close or be sold. Catholic Hospitals will not perform abortions if mandated by the Feds. Yet there may be some hospitals run by politically liberal Catholics who will easily go along with abortion and euthanasia in their hospitals; this is where the line will be drawn in the sand, this is where the Schism may start to form. No pope, now or in the future, will condone a Catholic Hospital to perform any life-ending procedures. It will be a choice that has been made since the beginning of time; serve God or mammon. What do the Catholic hospitals do in places like Europe and Canada that have Government run healthcare? Do they have to perform abortions/euthanasia? Does anyone know?
  7. Seán

    Seán New Member

    I don't know.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I don't think they do perform abortions.

    I can't imagine a Catholic Hospital anywhere performing abortions, especially since they would mostly have nuns as staff :shock:

    I really could not imagine them forcing such a thing in the USA, either. :shock:

    The mind boggles.

    Though I see in Australia, as elsewhere the danger is not in Catholics being forced to murder unborn babies but to refer them to murderers:

  9. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Good one Padraig.(y)
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    How are you Mac? I was wondering about you and the Earth quakes in New Zealand. I am glad our forum members down there seem to be all in one piece.

    It is only now that the questions have come right out into the open and that the bigger Catholic voices such as Cardinals , Archbishops , Bishops prominet theologians and the big voices such as EWTN are coming right out in the in the open that I recognise what a hard arduos voyage many of us have had to reach this point.

    I think for Irish Catholics in particular the idea of questioning a reigning Pontiff has been a very , very hard one indeed. Catholcis in Ireland suffereded centruies of persection for our Faith and for us loyalty to the Pope , unquestioning obedience was a must. Our enemies on the other hand saw this the greatest possible point of attack calling us, Papists, Pope heads and so on.

    I took very considerable thought and prayer and not a little internale struggle and pain before coming to the point of raising these questions. I was very tempted at times to brush everything under the carpet for the sake of a false peace and a very false notion of , 'Obedience' . I am sure that the vast majority of those who raised such questions had their own deep struggles and pains in asking such questions.

    Now that such questions have come right out into the open in the Universal Church I feel such a great relief and looking backwards in time , it is only now I understand what a consdierable amount of suffering and struggle and darkness all this cost not only in a personal sense but right across the Universal Church.

    Silence in the face of evil is never a proper choice. Obedience to an autohrity that requires and assent to evil is not a proper obedience. These things are basic.

    I am delighted now that these evils in the Vatican have been and are in the process of being exposed.

    Where to from here? Well it looks like more of the same really with the Pope turning his back to us. But I don't think he will bne able keep his back turned for to long. It is when he turns to face us we shall roll up our collective sleeves and begin. I look forward to this. I look forward to it with relish. I never was a one to run away from evil

    Mac likes this.
  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Or to put it another way:D:D

    Clare A and Mac like this.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

  13. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    My family and I are good Padraig. We got out of bed with the initial big quake, but have only felt a few of the bigger aftershocks so life goes on as normal for us. Big damage in some parts of the country sadly.

    When I saw Brians post about the 4 Cardinals I remembered there was an old prophecy concerning this number. When I googled a Pope fleeing with 4 Cardinals, MOG and your post from 2009 was one of the first.
    I think your post is quite accurate.
    Inis Eoghain likes this.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It doesn't look good.
  15. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    Famous USA Radio Broadcaster and newspaper columnist Paul Harvey who died in 09. I remember my parents listening to him at Noon on AM Radio 60 years ago and listened to him myself until his end. He came on for a five minute program at Noon and 5;30 .... and maybe early AM too?

  16. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I wonder if it will come to a choice between Pope Francis and Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI. After all, there is the prophecy of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich about 2 popes.:cautious::cautious:
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    He must have been a very,very wise man indeed. Remarkable..
  18. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well as Jesus said:


    Or to put it another way we can cross those bridges when we come to them.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  19. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I'm not sure from all the above quite who would be entering schism.

    What frightens me is that Catholics who keep the faith will despair and perhaps follow a despairing cardinal or bishop into schism against the St Gallen-type thinkers. I fear that I'd have to choose between an 'anti-pope' whose theology I agreed with, and a pope who, er, talks like the present pontiff. If a lot of people who think like us decamped, what then? The rest of us who assent to the Church's teaching (cf the Catechism) will be left to endure all the Kaspars and Kungs, theology lite and rocky horror masses.

    That's what I fear most.

    I really don't think it will come down to Pope Francis vs Benedict XVI because the latter is too good a churchman to oppose the Pope. In private he may be sorrowing, but publicly he will stand with Francis. And that's what we have to do. Orthodox Catholics should be used to it by now; dreary liturgies, heterodox sermons.... In the past it was always made bearable because we had two terrific Popes. Now the wounds are hurting because we can't look to the Pope for relief.

    Back in the 1990s I teasingly asked the late great Dom Bernard Orchard about whether he would obey a liberal bishop if asked to do something objectionable. Back then we had some truly dreadful bishops... anyway, he growled back at me "I obey the Pope!". But that was then.

    But this is all premature and conjectural. We cannot follow even a doctrinally orthodox leader into schism. We have to stay in the barque of Peter and keep bailing. I do have some understanding now of those theological liberals who kept banging on about 'the next Pope' in that tasteless way they had of wishing John Paul II dead. I don't wish anyone dead or even slightly unwell, I must add, but as this is God's church, the current situation will end.

    On a happy note. I was recently in Rome and met some of the seminarians in the English and Scottish colleges. To a man they impressed. Wonderful, faith-filled, Benedict generation young men longing to serve The Lord. The future's bright, the future's orthodox. Eventually...
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well as the hymn says, be not afraid, I go before you always.


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