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In Petri Sede Vacante

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by padraig, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The time of Advent gave me plenty time to reflect on the goings on of Jorge Bergoglio and his chums in the Vatican. I am now convinced that he automatically excommunicated himself through material heresy and hence is now no longer Pope.

    I believe now that the Seat of Peter is therefore vacant , Sede Vacante and I pray and urge the Cardinals still Faithful to Faith of our Fathers to move forward with great prayerful urgency to move forward to appoint a Real Pope to replace him.
    LittleVoice likes this.
  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Anyway despite the Grave Schism the Church is just entering into may I wish you all a very Holy and grace filled Christmas
  3. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    What if the seat is still occupied by Benedict and Francis was never really the Pope? An argument has been made that Pope Benedict's abdication was made in substantial error and therefore he is still Pope even if he doesn't think so. Confirmation of this theory seems to come from none other than Cardinal Muller in an interview he made in October on German Radio:

    Cardinal Muller: first time in history that we have two legitimate Popes

    In an explosive interview with the German version of Vatican Radio last October 26, 2016, Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that “for the first time in the history of the Church we have the case of two legitimate living popes.”

    This is the first time that a high-ranking Vatican official has publicly acknowledged the highly-unusual situation of the coexistence of two popes. Muller continued:

    Certainly only Pope Francis is THE Pope, but Benedict is the emeritus, so somehow he is still tied to the papacy. This unprecedented situation needs to be addressed theologically and spiritually. On how to do it, there are different opinions. I have shown that even with all the diversity that relate to the person and the character – which are given by nature – that the internal link must also be made visible. “

    When the journalist asked what this “internal link” or inner connection consists of, Muller said: “This is to profess [to proclaim the faith in] Jesus Christ, Who is the ‘ratio essendi’, the true foundation of the papacy, Who holds the Church together in the unity in Christ.…”

    The journalist further asked: “What do two popes together offer the Church?” Müller responded:

    Both exercise an office that they didn’t give to themselves, nor are they able to define: an office that is already ‘defined’ by Christ Himself, as it has been understood by the believing conscience of the Church. And each man experiences within the papal office – as in every other ecclesial office – a weight that one can only bear with the help of grace.

    Muller essentially says that Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI, “both exercise an office” that is the “Papal office”. And he says that this unprecedented situation, of “two legitimate living popes”, “needs to be addressed theologically and spiritually.”

    Papal Secretary: An Expanded Papal Ministry

    Müller seems to be going in the same direction as Monsignor Georg Gänswein, secretary of Pope Benedict XVI and Prefect of the Pontifical Household of Pope Francis.

    On May 21, 2016, Monsignor Ganswein caused quite a stir when in a conference in Rome, he said that with Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation, “there is an expanded {papal} ministry, with an active member and a contemplative member.”

    In that talk, Gänswein said among other things:

    Before and after his resignation, Benedict has understood and understands his task as a participation in the ‘Petrine’ Ministry. He left the Papal Throne and yet, with the step [he took] on 11 February 2013, did not abandon this Ministry at all. Instead, he integrated the personal office with a collegial and synodal dimension, almost a ministry in common.

    Ganswein likewise said:

    There are not, then, two popes, but ‘de facto’ there is an expanded ministry, with an active member and a contemplative member. This is why Benedict XVI has not given up his name, nor the white cassock. For this the proper form with which to address him is still ‘Holiness’; and for this, also, he did not retire to a monastery in isolation, but he is within the Vatican, as if he had only made a step to the side to make room for his successor and for a new stage in the history of the papacy.

    Pope Benedict XVI: Petrine Ministry is “Forever”

    Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI himself seemed to indicate as much that he did not intend to revoke his exercise of the Petrine ministry, not only with choice of an emeritus papacy, but also with the words of his last speech, where he explained that the Petrine ministry was “forever” in his life and added: “My decision to give up the active exercise of the ministry, does not revoke this fact.”

    Likewise, in his recent best-selling book, “Last Conversations”, Pope Benedict dedicated a page to explain his current situation, in perfect congruity with the intervention of his secretary in May and with that of Müller. He says that his was not “an escape, but another way to remain true to my ministry.” And he adds that he continues to be pope “in a deeper, more intimate, sense”.

    Today Müller says that “the internal link” that ties the two popes together and binds them to guard the deposit of the Faith “must be made visible.”

    Was Benedict XVI Forced to Resign?

    Not a few commentators and writers have put forward the position that given the strange and sudden circumstances around his sudden resignation, it may be a possibility that Benedict XVI was actually forced to resign by hidden forces within the Vatican plotting his demise. And while many dismiss this talk outright as outlandish “conspiracy theories”, the fact is that some high-ranking, progressive Cardinals have actually publicly acknowledged the existence of such a secret group within the Vatican that plotted the ouster of Benedict XVI.

    In his biography, Cardinal Daneels, a high-ranking adviser of Pope Francis, claimed that a secret group of cardinals called the “St. Gallen group” plotted for years to bring down Benedict XVI. He likewise said that the same group was behind the election to the papacy of Pope Francis. ∎

    By Peter Boardside, Veritas https://veritas-vincit-internationa...in-history-that-we-have-two-legitimate-popes/

    The way I understand it there can only be one Pope at a time. It does seem odd that Benedict still calls himself Pope and still dresses in Papal white. However, it is not for us laity to make a final determination on this issue. The College of Cardinals would have to take action if any action is to be taken.
    LittleVoice and little me like this.
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well whatever. But certainly a heretic cannot be Pope , so its bye bye Bergoglio and thank God for that.

    But for Pope Benedict to resume his ministry he would have to agree to do so. I cannot realistically see that happening. The next Pope will be entering a hell storm and will need enormous courage and strength. ..and of course Benedict is very old and frail now. But I suppose Benedict must be Pope now.
    It is so confusing.
    BrianK likes this.
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    On this point I agree. I think an automatic excommunication would be limited to formal heresy but would not apply to material heresy by a pope, and verification of the former would have to come from an "imperfect council"? I could be wrong.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Regardless this is essential:


    ‘A gravely critical moment’: Catholic scholars call on bishops to support the four cardinals
    Staff Reporter•Thursday, 8 Dec 2016
    Cardinals and bishops wait for the start of a consistory in St Peter's Basilica at the Vatican last month (AP)
    The 23 scholars include members of pontifical institutions and major universities

    Twenty-three Catholic scholars and pastors, three of them Oxford University academics, have given their names to a statement in support of the “four cardinals”, after the cardinals’ request to Pope Francis to clarify his apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia.

    The scholars include Dr Robert Beddard, the former Vice-Provost of Oriel College, Oxford; Professor Luke Gormally, a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life; Dr Nicholas Richardson, Sub-Warden of Merton College, Oxford; and the philosophy professors Carlos A Guerra, Paolo Pasqualucci and Claudio Pierantoni.

    Most of the 23 signatories also signed a previous letter to the College of Cardinals, asking them to request clarification of Amoris Laetitia.

    The statement says that the four cardinals raise “pertinent and searching questions” about whether Church teaching on the sacraments and the moral law is to be upheld. They say that if the Pope fails to reaffirm Church teaching, it may be necessary for the cardinals to “collectively approach him with some form of fraternal correction, in the spirit of Paul’s admonition to his fellow apostle Peter at Antioch”. Cardinal Burke, one of the four cardinals, has indicated that such a move might be necessary.

    The Pope has so far declined to reply to the questions, which were sent in September.

    The statement notes that Cardinal George Pell has described the contents of the four cardinals’ dubia as “significant”, and that other bishops have publicly supported the cardinals. It expresses the hope that more will join them, since bishops “have a grave and pressing duty to speak out clearly and strongly in confirmation of the moral teachings clearly expounded in the magisterial teachings of previous popes and the Council of Trent.”

    In the eight months since Amoris Laetitia was published, some bishops have interpreted the document in line with Church teaching, while others have suggested it changes this teaching, particularly over Communion for the remarried. The signatories argue that attempts to find a “development of doctrine” have not succeeded: “we find that they fail to demonstrate their central claim that the novel elements found in [Amoris Laetitia] do not endanger divine law, but merely envisage legitimate changes in pastoral practice and ecclesiastical discipline.”

    The scholars’ statement warns that the Church may be entering “a gravely critical moment” comparable with the Arian crisis. It points out that when Arianism advanced, “the great majority of bishops, including even the Successor of Peter, vacillated over the very divinity of Christ.

    “Many did not fully lapse into heresy; however, disarmed by confusion or weakened by timidity, they sought convenient compromise formulae in the interests of ‘peace’ and ‘unity’. Today we are witnessing a similar metastasizing crisis, this time over fundamental aspects of Christian living.”

    The statement says that “lip service” is still given to such teachings as “the indissolubility of marriage, the grave objective sinfulness of fornication, adultery and sodomy, the sanctity of the Holy Eucharist, and the terrible reality of mortal sin”. But it argues that many senior figures undermine or effectively deny such doctrine by an “exaggerated or one-sided emphasis on ‘mercy’, ‘pastoral accompaniment’, and ‘mitigating circumstances’.

    Other well-known figures who have signed the statement include Fr John Hunwicke, an ordinariate priest and blogger, the philosopher Dr Thomas Stark, and Dr Joseph Shaw, chairman of the Latin Mass Society. Dr Shaw said in a statement: “The Holy Father alone has the power to resolve the current confusion, and must urgently do so for the good of souls.”

    Dr Shaw added that some who claimed to support Pope Francis were arguing, in effect, that “Catholics should simultaneously believe that the teaching of Pope St John Paul II – and all his predecessors – remains correct, and also that it is no longer applicable in concrete situations.

    “To demand that people undertake this doublethink is not the action of a good father; it is an abuse of ordinary Catholics and of the truth. To reject this kind of defence of Amoris laetitia is required not only by the Faith but by our sanity.”

    The full list of signatories is below.

    Msgr. Ignacio Barreiro Carambula, STD, JD
    Chaplain and Faculty Member of the Roman Forum

    Rev. Claude Barthe,

    Dr. Robert Beddard, MA (Oxon et Cantab), D.Phil (Oxon)
    Fellow emeritus and former Vice Provost of Oriel College Oxford.

    Carlos A. Casanova Guerra
    Doctor of Philosophy, Full Professor,
    Universidad Santo Tomás, Santiago de Chile

    Salvatore J. Ciresi MA
    Notre Dame Graduate School of Christendom College
    Director of the St. Jerome Biblical Guild

    Luke Gormally, PhL
    Director Emeritus, The Linacre Centre for Healthcare Ethics (1981-2000)
    Sometime Research Professor, Ave Maria School of Law, Ann Arbor, Michigan (2001-2007)
    Ordinary Member, The Pontifical Academy for Life

    Rev. Brian W. Harrison OS, MA, STD
    Associate Professor of Theology (retired), Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico; Scholar-in-Residence, Oblates of Wisdom Study Center, St. Louis, Missouri

    Rev. John Hunwicke, MA (Oxon.)
    Former Senior Research Fellow, Pusey House, Oxford; Priest of the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham; Member, Roman Forum

    Peter A. Kwasniewski PhD (Philosophy)
    Professor, Wyoming Catholic College

    Rev. Dr. Dr Stephen Morgan
    Academies Conversion Project Leader & Oeconomus
    Diocese of Portsmouth

    Don Alfredo Morselli STL
    Parish priest of the Archdiocese of Bologna

    Rev. Richard A. Munkelt PhD (Philosophy)
    Chaplain and Faculty Member, Roman Forum

    Rev. John Osman MA, STL
    Parish priest in the archdiocese of Birmingham,
    former Catholic chaplain to the University of Cambridge

    Dr Paolo Pasqualucci
    Professor of Philosophy (retired),
    University of Perugia

    Dr Claudio Pierantoni
    Professor of Medieval Philosophy in the Philosophy Faculty of the University of Chile
    Former Professor of Church History and Patrology at the Faculty of Theology of the Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile
    Member of the International Association of Patristic Studies

    Dr John C. Rao D.Phil (Oxon.)
    Associate Professor of History, St. John’s University (NYC)
    Chairman, Roman Forum

    Dr Nicholas Richardson. MA, DPhil (Oxon.)
    Fellow emeritus and Sub-Warden of Merton College, Oxford
    and former Warden of Greyfriars, Oxford.

    Dr Joseph Shaw MA, DPhil (Oxon.) FRSA
    Senior Research Fellow (Philosophy) at St Benet’s Hall,
    Oxford University

    Dr Anna M. Silvas FAHA,
    Adjunct research fellow, University of New England,
    Armidale, NSW, Australia.

    Michael G. Sirilla PhD
    Director of Graduate Theology,
    Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio

    Professor Dr Thomas Stark
    Phil.-Theol. Hochschule Benedikt XVI, Heiligenkreuz

    Rev. Glen Tattersall
    Parish Priest, Parish of Bl. John Henry Newman, Archdiocese of Melbourne
    Rector, St Aloysius’ Church, Melbourne

    Rev. Dr David Watt STL, PhD (Cantab.)
    Priest of the Archdiocese of Perth
    Chaplain, St Philomena’s chapel, Malaga
  7. Dear friends at MoG forum.
    I HAVE REPORTED THIS THREAD which is unacceptable in a Forum of the Mother of God. If it is not remove this kind of nonsense I have to leave the forum, I cannot worship God and Mammom.
    Our responsibility is to PRAY, PRAY, PRAY and not to judge the Pope. This is intolerable and sinful. I'm very sorry that the blindness is such that we people who pretend to be discerning can take this kind of step.
    Love is PATIENT. And much humility is needed at this time to not fall for satan's ways and tricks.

    Lily, Pijon, Julia and 4 others like this.
  8. little me

    little me Archangels

    Pope Benedict XVI Ratzinger submitted an invalid resignation in February of ARSH 2013, predicated upon the error that the Papacy could be bifurcated or in any way shared or expanded. The relevant Canon is Canon 188, which states very plainly and succinctly:

    Canon 188
    A resignation made out of grave fear that is inflicted unjustly or out of malice, substantial error, or simony is invalid by the law itself.

    LittleVoice likes this.
  9. little me

    little me Archangels

    Since there is and can only ever be a maximum of one pope alive on earth at any given time, this means that Ratzinger, given his invalid resignation made in substantial error per Canon 188, is still the one and only Pope.

    The See is NOT vacant. The reality is precisely the opposite of sedevacantism. And yet, as I fully expected, ANY questioning of Bergoglio’s status is characterized and lumped-in and discredited with howling accusations of sedevacantism. Those suffering from the vice of effeminacy, and its direct corollary, the vice of human respect, are certainly cowed by this tactic. All I can do is shake my head. -Ann B.
  10. little me

    little me Archangels

    You can fight against reality all you want but in the end, Truth will win out.
    LittleVoice and BrianK like this.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    It's Padraig's forum and he posted this thread.

    Just who exactly do you think you "reported" this thread to? :rolleyes:

    Satan's "ways and tricks" are being employed by the Vatican itself and must be exposed and resisted. Silence does not accomplish this, it simply puts more eternal souls into the real risk of sacrilegious Communions and eternal damnation.

    Nobody is judging the eternal soul of this pope, but his words and actions must be publicly resisted for the sake of the flock.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  12. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member


    In a War for Souls, No Christmas Truce
    Steve Skojec December 23, 2016

    On December 7, 1914, Pope Benedict XV wrote suggested that a temporary hiatus in the “Great War” be observed in honor of the Christmas celebration.

    While his proposal was not well received by the commanding officers of the German and British militaries, something altogether different was happening in the trenches of the Western Front. The Germans had begun placing small Christmas trees along the perimeter of their encampment, wherever they could find the space. On Christmas eve, as was the ancient custom, they filled the trees with candles and lit them. Then, they began singing:

    Stille Nacht! Heil’ge Nacht!
    Alles schläft; einsam wacht
    Nur das traute hoch heilige Paar.
    Holder Knab’ im lockigen Haar,
    Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!

    Across No Man’s Land, the British soldiers — some of whom had been opening parcels sent from home, heard the familiar strains. In their own trenches, they were moved to joined in the verse:

    Silent Night! Holy Night!
    All is calm, all is bright
    Round young virgin mother and child
    Holy infant so tender and mild
    Sleep in heavenly peace….sleep in heavenly peace!

    So began the Christmas Truce of 1914 — a rare and brief moment of unplanned armistice between two opposing factions in one of the bloodiest wars in history. The two sides took the opportunity to bury their dead, and, as some accounts would have it, to play a brief game of soccer together. The interlude did not last long, and almost as soon as it had begun, the ceasefire ended, the soldiers returning to their trenches to begin shooting again at the same men they had just enjoyed a brief moment of shared Christian experience with. Were it not for the obstinacy of their superiors, many would no doubt have preferred never to resume combat. After all, in the European battlefields of World War I, most of the combatants shared a fundamental set of values; many professed the same creed.

    Sadly, such fellowship is not possible in our present ecclesiastical conflict. This Christmas, there will be no armistice, however brief. The pope — especially the pope, who leads the charge for his axis of power — will not call for a laying down of arms. It is not a war for land, or for honor, but for souls — and the devil, who has been marshaling his forces in Rome, never rests.
    Since March 13, 2013, there has been a non-stop escalation in the newly-intensified battle between the forces that seek to undermine Catholic teaching — that is to say, teaching that is from God Himself, passed on to mankind through Scripture, Tradition, and apostolic authority — and those who would seek to defend it from enemies not just external to the Mystical Body of Christ, but within. It is not a fight that began with the present pontificate; far from it. One could trace the origins back centuries, though history will show that a clear and purposeful acceleration of the internal machination to destroy the Church began in the 1960s with the hijacking of the Second Vatican Council by progressive forces and the subsequent suppression of the immune system of Christ’s mystical bride through the exile of authentic Catholic worship and the poisoned fruit of the fabricated, obfuscating disaster of a liturgy that took its place.

    As Pope St. Pius X so presciently warned the faithful in his encyclical against the modernists, Pascendi Dominici Gregis:

    Nor indeed would he be wrong in regarding them as the most pernicious of all the adversaries of the Church. For, as We have said, they put into operation their designs for her undoing, not from without but from within. Hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain from the very fact that their knowledge of her is more intimate. Moreover, they lay the ax not to the branches and shoots, but to the very root, that is, to the faith and its deepest fibers. And once having struck at this root of immortality, they proceed to diffuse poison through the whole tree, so that there is no part of Catholic truth which they leave untouched, none that they do not strive to corrupt.

    Decades after this sabotage was begun in earnest, it seems as though we at last have slipped into the mirror world, where good is called evil, and evil good. In his Christmas address to the curia this week, Pope Francis intoned the inversion as he took aim at those critics of his innovations that defy Christ’s own teaching on marriage, sin, and the sacraments:

    There are also cases of malicious resistance, which spring up in misguided minds and come to the fore when the devil inspires ill intentions (often cloaked in sheep’s clothing). This last kind of resistance hides behind words of self-justification and, often, accusation; it takes refuge in traditions, appearances, formalities, in the familiar, or else in a desire to make everything personal, failing to distinguish between the act, the actor, and the action.

    Traditions, appearances, formalities, and the familiar — these are the constancy of the Church; she is unchanging because her truths are timeless. Her Magisterium may deepen our understanding of these truths, but it may never contradict them.

    Francis, however, is fond of one of the slogans of Martin Luther: semper reformanda. Always reforming, always changing, always innovating, tearing up the foundations laid down by thousands of years of popes, bishops, saints, and doctors of the Church. And under the constant shelling, even these ancient and immutable structures have begun to appear as less than certain in the eyes of many of the faithful who have suffered such a loss of morale.

    Behind enemy lines, reports are equally grim. We’ve heard many reports indicating that the Vatican increasingly resembles an occupied state. Roughly two years ago, I had dinner with a contact of mine who spends a good deal of time at the Vatican. At the time, Francis enjoyed a great deal of external popularity, but this individual told me, “In the Vatican, he is not well-liked.” Perhaps most potent in the minds of many insiders was Francis’ scathing address to the curia at Christmas of 2014. Not as widely reported was that he also had no kind words to say for the “rank-and-file”of the Vatican who were also present — the very workers who make the Catholic city-state function from day to day. One woman told my dinner companion that in addition to the dressing-down, “He didn’t even say ‘Merry Christmas’ to us.” I’ve had countless discussions with parish priests who feel as though he is always insulting them, calling them out, and berating them with his broad criticisms. Parents of large families feel similarly harangued, whether because of his comment about them breeding like “rabbits”, his apparent willingness to allow eugenic contraception, or the way his general admonitions against “rigidity” flies in the face of those who are attempting to teach their children right from wrong.

    We have also noted that sources in Rome have been strangely unwilling to go on record about certain widely-known rumors, such as the alleged papal outburst over the 13 cardinals letter. As Maike Hickson reported at the time:

    As a journalist, I wanted more to go on, so I asked if Fr. Giuseppe would contact those those with whom he had spoken who had first-hand sources. Would any of them, I asked, be willing to write down carefully and accurately what they had witnessed, even if only anonymously?

    The unanimous response was a resounding, “No.” All of these eye-witnesses appeared to be too afraid even to write an anonymous account of what had transpired! Father Giuseppe was unwilling to let it go. He also had several contacts who live at Casa Santa Marta. Surely, these must have been present in the dining room when Pope Francis spoke, or had at least have heard about what happened? Their response to his question was not to deny it, but only to change the topic. Their unwillingness to confirm it was telling, but their refusal to deny it even moreso.

    Father Giuseppe assured me, however, that the story about the papal outburst of anger is now known everywhere in Rome, a city “where there are no secrets; it is too small a place for that.”

    We held off on publishing that story for months, hoping and waiting that someone would appear who was willing to make a statement about what happened. Instead, we heard again and again that everyone knew it had happened, but nobody was going to talk. It felt as though we were trying to get a witness on the stand in a mafia trial.

    Other conversations with sources inside various Vatican offices have turned up a genuine concern that their communications are being monitored, KGB style. Vatican-issued cell phones and email addresses are treated with absolute suspicion, and reports of employees being quietly dismissed from congregations like the CDF for the crime of agreeing with the resistance to Amoris Laetitia have surfaced. I have written about the “Dictatorship of Mercy” — the heavy handedness with which the Francis Vatican is implementing its agenda; Maike Hickson has written, too, about Russia’s errors infecting Rome. Bishop Athanasius Schneider — who grew up under the boot of Soviet Communism — said recently that:

    “The reaction to the dubia is a proof of the climate in which we actually live in the Church right now,” Bishop Schneider said. “We live in a climate of threats and of denial of dialogue towards a specific group.”

  13. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member


    Now, too, Steve Jalsevac, co-founder and managing director of LifeSiteNews, has written about his recent experiences in Rome:

    After meeting with cardinals, bishops and other Vatican agency and dicastery staff, John-Henry Westen, our new Rome reporter, Jan Bentz, and I saw a consistent pattern of widespread anxiety and very real fear among faithful Church servants. We have never encountered this before.

    Many were afraid of being removed from their positions, fired from their jobs in Vatican agencies or of encountering severe public or private reprimands and personal accusations from those around the pope or even from Francis himself. They are also fearful and anxious about the great damage being done to the Church and being helpless to stop it.

    Near the end of our visit, one very high-level cleric confirmed our observations. He added, “One can sense the fear. It is tangible.” Another, who has always been willing to discuss difficult situations, immediately told us that he would not talk, even off the record, in confidence, about any of the current controversies. We were told not to ask him any questions about these things.

    Jalsevac also cites an interview with Vatican journalist Edward Pentin in Regina Magazine in which he discussed the political manipulation, deceit, and calumny happening within Vatican walls. Says Jalsevac, “These are strong words from this always top-notch Vatican reporter who is normally soft-spoken and very mild-mannered.” He went on to describe the rough treatment that journalists were given at a press event with Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago:

    After the newly installed cardinal’s unsatisfactory answers to two questions from Ed Pentin, I was given the nod. While briefly prefacing my question, I was suddenly harshly interrupted by a Vatican press official demanding, “Ask the question!” Considering that the preface was brief, the question was about to be asked and there were only a handful of media persons in the room, the interruption was totally uncalled for.

    I immediately asked the question regarding the animosity that respectful questioners of Francis have been enduring and to which the cardinal astonishingly responded by denying any knowledge of such a thing occurring. Then, when John-Henry Westen put up his hand to ask a question, a spontaneous rule was announced by the press official. He refused to allow John-Henry’s question saying that only one question was permitted from each agency.

    That sudden ruling caused an uncomfortable stir among the several other media representatives. Four in a row were now also not permitted to ask their questions because of the new rule. When the last one was denied, Cardinal Cupich said, “Why not, since yours is a friendly question?” And so that softball question was permitted.

    The growing hostility to faithful media who dare to simply question with respect the actions or statements of those around Pope Francis or of the pope himself was especially highlighted in a December 7 Reuters report.

    Reuters stated, “Using precise psychological terms,” Pope Francis “said scandal-mongering media risked falling prey to coprophilia, or arousal from excrement, and consumers of these media risked coprophagia, or eating excrement.”

    So now, if the translation is correct, as most of these usually are, if we dare to see and report what are obviously newsworthy developments that do not reflect well on the pope or his close collaborators, we are “scandal-mongering,” “eating excrement” and being sexually aroused by this excrement of reporting uncomfortable truth.

    How can a pope, the Vicar of Christ, make such vile accusations?

    Jalsevac, who travels to Rome multiple times a year as a journalist, finishes his accounting with a statement that would no doubt be echoed by many now watching these events unfold: “I have never experienced anything like this in my lifetime…”

    Over these past few years, I have often found myself wondering, Just what is it about Francis that makes so many men afraid? He is not a physically intimidating man. He seems incapable of providing coherent responses (when he provides any at all) to questions from critics, so he seems unlikely to be viewed as an intellectual threat. He is reported to have an explosive temper, but all the shouting in the world would not give a grown man who has given his life to Christ cause to cower. There must be something more. Something more at work in the reticence of those with the power and position to do so to confront the man. Something beyond career-mindedness. I suspect — on some level, I might even say I “sense” — actual fear.

    The news broke today in the English speaking world that Francis has now been reported to have admitted something rather astonishing within his small circle of collaborators. “It is not to be excluded,” he is alleged to have said, “that I will enter history as the one who split the Catholic Church.” Even this moment of self-awareness gives rise to no indication that he will call for a ceasefire and immerse himself in the fullness of Catholic truth.

    Christmas is almost upon us, but there will be no peace until Pope Francis is either converted or has vacated the papal throne.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I would expect that many, many will leave the forum. If you recall I predicted this several times that a day would come when people would flock to leave this day will come.

    But I would prefer a much smaller forum that stuck with the Truth than one were a huge lie was covered over. The current group of devils currently in occupation in the Vatican are like some sattelite from hell that will go into more and more eccentiric and erratic orbit.

    If it is not presently obvious to you that a great , great evil has overtaken our Church in the form Bergoglio and his cronies, I trust it will before it is too late. I am merely ene of a flock of swallows who declare the coming of a new Spring of the Church.
  15. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    Someone let Padraig know his account has been hacked.
    Julia and DeGaulle like this.
  16. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    Padraig. I get the confusion he HS caused and I'm not happy with it at all. I ask you pray to our blessed mother and ask her if he is a valid Pope. What specifically was it that caused this change in direction. Merry Christmas. I will pray for you to see the truth and I ask you do the same for me.
  17. bflocatholic

    bflocatholic Powers

    I logged on this morning hoping to find a "Merry Christmas" thread and to wish my brothers and sisters on the Mother of God forum a blessed Christmas. The joy of the Incarnation and the Nativity is so intense, and so amazing!

    Instead I am greeted with this thread. It is so terribly, terribly sad that this sort of thing should be posted on this day, of all days.

    Still, I will continue to pray for everyone that shares Padraig's sentiments on Pope Francis. Padraig, I promise to pray most intensely for you.

    Merry Christmas to all of you! Heaven smiles today at the enormity of God's goodness - I smile today as well thinking of the Christ child in the manger, surrounded by dear St. Joseph and sweet, pure, most beautiful Mary, our most blessed Mother.

    Jesus I trust in you! Thank you for humbling yourself to be born that day in Bethlehem. May you be born anew in each of our hearts this day and always!
    josephite, DeGaulle and PotatoSack like this.
  18. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Cardinal Burke: Formal correction of Amoris Laetitia could happen in New Year
    by Staff Reporter
    posted Tuesday, 20 Dec 2016
    Cardinal Raymond Burke (CNS)
    The cardinal advised Catholics to remain 'serene' by reaffirming the Church's teaching

    In a new interview with Lifesitenews, Cardinal Raymond Burke has outlined a possible “formal correction” of Amoris Laetitia at some point after Christmas.

    Cardinal Burke, who along with three other cardinals has asked the Pope to clarify Amoris Laetitia, said that such a correction would be “very simple”.

    It would be like the request for clarification – five questions known as “dubia” – but “would no longer be raising questions, but confronting the confusing statements in Amoris Laetitia with what has been the Church’s constant teaching and practice, and thereby correcting Amoris Laetitia”.

    The dubia ask Pope Francis to reaffirm Church teaching on the sacraments and the moral law: for instance, that some actions are always intrinsically wrong, and that the divorced and remarried cannot receive Communion unless they endeavour to live as brother and sister.

    Pope Francis has declined to answer the request. Cardinal Burke’s latest comments suggest that any correction would repeat much of the content of the dubia, while describing some passages of Amoris Laetitia as confusing. The Church has previously used condemnations such as “ambiguous” or “scandalous”, less grave than describing a statement as “heretical”.

    Cardinal Burke said that correction of a pope is “an old institute in the Church”, although it had not happened in recent centuries.

    Pope John XXII was corrected by a group of theologians in Paris after preaching a heretical opinion about the afterlife – which he later repudiated.

    Cardinal Burke said that formal correction was not a sign of disrespect for the papacy, but “actually a way of safeguarding that office and its exercise”.

    Asked when it might take place, Cardinal Burke implied that it could be early in 2017. He said: ”We are in the last days, days of strong grace, before the Solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord, and then we have the Octave of the Solemnity and the celebrations at the beginning of the New Year – the whole mystery of Our Lord’s Birth and His Epiphany – so it would probably take place sometime after that.”

    Cardinal Burke also advised Catholics to remain “serene” by reaffirming the Church’s teaching. “I think the important thing for us as Catholics is simply to affirm once again what the Church has always taught and practiced,” he said. The cardinal made particular reference to the teachings expressed by Pope St John Paul II in Familiaris Consortio – which rules out Communion for the remarried – and Veritatis Splendor, which affirms the existence of absolute moral norms.

    Cardinal Burke said: “We have these secure teachings, and it’s important then to give witness to those teachings, to express them, to know them ourselves, and then simply to say, ‘But this is what the Church teaches,’ no matter what the media or others are saying, or even if some quote from the Pope himself seems to say otherwise. We need to give witness to what the Church has always taught and practiced, and that way we remain serene, we don’t give way to confusion, and even division as it can often happen in the Church otherwise.”

    Asked about the attacks on the cardinals and those who support them, Cardinal Burke replied: “I just encourage the faithful not to become discouraged, not to let themselves in some way be intimidated by these kind of statements, for they know Our Lord in His Church, and they have good spiritual guides to keep them close to Our Lord.”


    Padraig don't expect people to leave the forum but ask everyone to keep praying. The Blessed Mother has stated her Immaculate Heart will triumph and she has asked us to pray for the clergy. This will all be sorted out. Merry Christmas.

    This may not be the most appropriate time for me to bring up prophesy but I read one that states a pope will realize that he is in error but many around him will not. As soon as I can find it I will post it. (If anyone else knows it please post it).

    Keep the faith and remain hopeful.
    sparrow, josephite and DeGaulle like this.
  19. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    "The cardinal advised Catholics to remain 'serene' by reaffirming the Church's teaching."
    The Truth is Gang!! NONE of us here know what's going on in Rome or any National Capitol except that all is not as it should be. Nor do the Know-It alls in The Media ... most of whom hate God, Faith ... especially Christians. ... or the insider BS Artists! Time for Prayer & Reflection! Time to keep our Eyes-n-Ears open and our powder dry. The Divine Play called The Storm ... or Great Awakening ..... or Warning .... or SHTF 2017 ... is unfolding before our very eyes. Deception, Spin, Confusion and Division!! It was ALL foretold Long-Ago!! Past TIME to prepare yourself, family, friends, neighbors and parish for what's coming ... you have no control over Rome and little control over your own national affairs.. except with PRAYER .... target fixate on Jesus and the core beliefs of Our Faith .... the rest is of no importance when the thunder of The Devil's Herd becomes deafening!
    Pijon, Julia, mothersuperior7 and 6 others like this.
  20. Ezdras

    Ezdras New Member

    Uni Petrus ibi ecclesia

    The 80 year old successor of Peter tries to do the impossible, to reform an old organisation marred in corruption of all kind. He was elected by some 90-100cardinals for that purpose. Not for purpose to restore 15 th century customs that are not dogma.
    Hope he will find support among the faithful millions.
    What certain individual cardinals are doing now to sabotage the reform from inside, is nothing less than betrayal of the church equal to what Judas did. Imagine what will happen with the billion flock if a conservative was elected instead of Francis. Thanks God, the Holy Spirit influenced the majority of cardinal electors in 2013 to elect the man who at least says the things as they should be. Will he have the strength, support and also time to carry out the reform? It is already too late. 2017 is on the door. Pls see my thread about Fatima, I won't repeat it here. To blame Francis for all the problems he tries to fix, is not to distinguish between cause and effect. Francis was elected pope because of the existing problems he is supposed to fix. Not vice versus. Sorry Burke, but it is not you to coin new rules as who is heretic and how the pope could automatically cease to be pope. There is no such thing in the patrology for 20 centuries. If Burke wants his own church with his own coined rules, why doesn't he do it, instead of blackmailing billion Catholics who don't think in his terms and never will.

    Merry Christmas to all!

    mothersuperior7 and fallen saint like this.

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