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I fear that Cardinal Walter Kasper is in grave error

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Richard67, Jul 3, 2015.

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  1. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    If you believe this...Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them''

    Then you should be very afraid of a Cardinal who will lead many souls to Hell .
    BrianK likes this.
  2. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    You can lead a horse to water.....this horse aint for drinking!
  3. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

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  4. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I am not sure if you understood. What I was saying is that I am not for drinking from the same cup as Cardinal Kasper. I may not agree with his thinking but I am not going to condemn him because
    A. That's not my job
    B. He is still a work in progress.
    Firstly no official or conclusive report has yet come out of the Synod. When it does it will severely limit any damage maverick thinking could have caused. Most Catholics have never heard of Cardinal Kasper (or Cardinal Burke for that matter.) What they say does not matter to the vast majority. What matters is what the Pope says. I do agree, many souls may be attracted by the Cardinal's liberal/modernist approach and that may shrink the size of the Church but that makes me think of another Jesuit, Bob Faricy, who said "God does not make junk but he does collect it." and I would further suggest, He does restore it. There are a lot of ideas out there that would count as junk and need a lot of work if any thing good is going to come from them. We are assured, however, that "in all things God works for the good." The containers in which this junk is found need much attention themselves as we all do. Perhaps Cardinal Kasper is one such container. I do not fear him or his ideas because I have faith in the Church. Fear knocked at the door. Faith opened it and there was no-0ne there. The True Church eventually will be small but that is on the cards. Jesus Himself wondered if there would be any faith left when He returned. Wouldn't it be a nice surprise for Him if there was a bit more than he expected...other 'churches' will form and drop away but the only one worth preserving will be preserved. Of that we are assured. I am afraid you and me are going to number in that raggedy remnant Mac!
    I skimmed through your link ( a bit dated) and got the point but then I thought "all those words, all those books and Jesus didn't even write one letter", except perhaps what he wrote in the sand when standing over the woman caught in adultery. In fact we are told that the law causes sin. There are miles and miles of laws lining the Vatican vaults. Miles and miles of sin if we break them. We were told we now live by the Spirit. But it has to be the Spirit of Truth. I believe this was what the Blessed Mother meant when she told us "First lead good lives." The Warning will help in this development. I hope I live through the Tribulation, Warning and The Miracle and then I am taken to heaven before the Chastisement. Those wee Garabandal girls who were graced with the presence of The Sacred Heart, Our Lady, St Joseph, Archangels Michael and Gabriel and Padre Pio, had never read anything from the Vatican at the time of their visions but they were brought up in the Faith. That is the difference between now and then in Catholic countries. Less and less children are being brought up in the faith. That is what the Synod on Family is trying to address. And don't start throwing rabbit quotes at me!:mad:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
    miker likes this.
  5. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    Mac it is the job of the Cardinals/bishops in union with the Pope to thrash these things out (not surprisingly that is what Synods are for) and all to submit to the final directions of the Pope...not to you me or Padraig. That is all God asks of us laity.

    With the guidance of the HS it is their vocation and duty to interpret Scripture, pronounce on morals and decide what is in harmony with the Deposit of Faith.

    If we laity decide to do this independently on our own recogniscance (for anyone else other than ourselves) that would be Protestantism. When the bishops and Cardinals go through this process - that is surely the heart of Catholicism. It is surely their job to keep each other in check not us.

    There is a process and a debate for them to go through and it is a discomfort that its our duty to tolerate and reflect on.
    Is it not shameful some of us Catholics here are so discomforted, and so short on tolerance, that we would prematurely disallow them debate of certain topics, call a Cardinal a heretic and imply Pope Francis isn't much better ... and simply because they are airing a view we laity may strongly disagree with or be completely unable to fathom.

    The good Cardinal has clearly stated he will submit to the Synod and the Pope whatever the outcome.

    If we believe it is possible for the Synod and Pope to come out with final conclusions that contradict the Faith then we make our own personal expertise and authority the final arbiter of what is and what is not Catholicism.
    This, intrinsically, is not Catholic. It is Protestant individualism and ends in chaos. The only uniting leader under such conditions is our own expertise - each cherry-picking a different Cardinal champion (or set of opposing Scriptural quotes :)) that show how Protestant and unhelpful such cherry-picking always is.
    If we keep feeding such murmuring attitides surely the Catholic Church is already lost?

    I find it strange that this unwholesome spirit is so prevalent on a site dedicated to the Mother of God who, under these sorts of unfathomable conditions, reflected inwardly rather than reacting outwardly in this divided and uncatholic manner.

    "1Cor 3:4ff Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? 5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building."
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
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  6. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I disagree with every line you wrote BH.[almost every line]
    little me and BrianK like this.
  7. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    You cause a lotta work and come back with a one liner. Lets hear a bit more from you Mac. Lets see your thinking. Not someone else. Your own thinking.
    Mac likes this.
  8. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a Divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the true Faith of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.” Pius XII
  9. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Lol , Im a father of 8. Im in enough trouble with the wife already:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: for spending to much time on the computer.
    Pray4peace and BrianK like this.
  10. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Hell mend ya:ROFLMAO:made me laugh
  11. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    Mac I am honoured that you agreed with at least one line, thank you .
    Joe Crozier likes this.
  12. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Utter and complete nonsense.

    There is NOTHING to debate here. The Church has known and settled for millennia the meaning of Christ's clear words in scripture in regard to divorce. There is no movement of Mercy, no "inspiration" of the Holy Spirit, no development of doctrine that can change this reality, and those militating for a change are heretics. Read the words of Saint John Paul II on the subject.

    There's nothing to debate when it comes to settled Church teachings.
    little me, Pray4peace, Heidi and 2 others like this.
  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think its true that if we are not hard nosed about Orthodxy we will turn into jelly about all else.

    These are the very foundation stones on which the Church rests. If we let the termites get gnawing down there the rest will crumble.

    It is the basic of the basic, which is why it is so important. It is non negotiable.
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  14. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    According to Father John Hardon's Catholic Dictionary, there lived an Antipope St. Hippolytus from 217-235, who was reconciled before his death and was canonized.
  15. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    Just to recap from the early posts - Fr Cantalamessa is the Preacher to the Papal Household, not the Pope's theologian. Fr C is a wonderful man and his books and tapes are worth getting hold of. He was appointed by St JPII and kept in post by Popes BXVI and Francis. I had to look up wiki for the Papal Theologian, he's a Pole and a Dominican, called Wojciech Giertych, appointed by Pope Benedict. Cardinal Kaspar is I think simply an advisor to the Pope - and we can assume he has others.

    While I agree with posts here which advise caution in criticising senior clergy, I can tell you that I've heard clerics themselves express anxiety and disquiet about the coming Synod. One of these is an eminent priest in Poland who teaches theology to seminarians. Personally I am not going to worry about it - the best way to treat a boil is to lance it, and perhaps this is what Francis is doing. The Church cannot change her teaching on marriage - Christ specifically spoke about this - and there will be a lot of frustrated and disappointed liberals who thought that it was all up for grabs.
  16. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I just found this on Fr Blake's blog:
    I get a bit concerned when priests of a certain age (which they are mostly) say, 'we must be merciful'. The problem is that for the last 60 years we have done nothing else but be so 'merciful' that we have failed to be truly merciful and proclaim Jesus' teaching, which is the ultimate and only real mercy...

    On another tack, Cardinal Caffara was a member of the preliminary session of the Synod last year, and one of the five contributors to the book 'Remaining in the Truth of Christ', which restates the Church's position on marriage. A moral theologian, he was appointed by St John Paul to head the Pontifical Institute for Marriage and Family Life - and is almost certain to attend the upcoming Synod. He disagrees with Cardinal Kaspar... I want to quote an interview with him that's now quite old, but it's sobering, and reminds us what, or rather, who we are up against....

    Q. There is a prophecy by Sister Lucia dos Santos, of Fatima, which concerns “the final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan”. The battlefield is the family. Life and the family. We know that you were given charge by John Paul II to plan and establish the Pontifical Institute for the Studies on Marriage and the Family.

    >Yes, I was. At the start of this work entrusted to me by the Servant of God John Paul II, I wrote to Sister Lucia of Fatima through her Bishop as I couldn’t do so directly. Unexplainably however, since I didn’t expect an answer, seeing that I had only asked for prayers, I received a very long letter with her signature – now in the Institute’s archives. In it we find written: the final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family.Don’t be afraid, she added,because anyone who operates for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be contended and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded:however, Our Lady has already crushed its head.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
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  17. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    "Has anyone here condemned you? Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." Even when a civilised state executes someone there are acceptable and unnaceptable ways. First consideration is the principle, innocent til proven guilty. Lets wait til the case (synod) has been heard. Even then Christian charity demands that we do not treat Cardinal Kasper in a cruel and unusual way as he comes to the end of his life. There is always room for mercy Brian K. There may be no room to debate fixed church teachings but despite what you say there is room for debate on what is fixed with regard to the way these teachings are applied. You may say the excuse of discipline is open to abuse but discipleship has always been open to abuse. There is always a better way and that is the way of mercy, not compromise or corruption of Truth, but real Mercy. Real Mercy and Justice need each other but scripture tells us mercy should have primary consideration. Sometimes we have to see more clearly what is wrong before that wrong can be averted or put right. I agree with Clare A in her suggestion that Francis is using this exposure of the wrong, letting it come to a head, so that the boil can be lanced and the poison expelled. But the flesh around the wound must be allowed to heal. We have to get it right before God puts us right. I cannot believe Cardinal Kasper was selfishly motivated. Why would he be? He was genuinly trying to make it easier for people to return to the fold. He may have been wrong in the way he promoted but the Church will sort that out.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    You clearly do not comprehend what is at stake here. This agenda is a direct attack on the two foundations of the Faith as instituted by God: 1) marriage and thus the Family and 2) the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

    No one living in a state of adultery may approach the Holy Eucharist until their situation is regularized by the Church.

    To mount an attack on this doctrine/discipline is to mount an attack on the pillars of Christendom.

    Sorry, no, appeals to go easy on Kasper do not and will not resonate with orthodox Catholics for his is a more grave attack on the Faith than even that of the Arians.

    Wake up. We're fighting for the foundations of the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a game. This is not the time to try to score petty points in an Internet debate.

    This is the time to take up arms and defend the Barque of Peter from the mutineers who would take over Her Helm.
  19. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    These debates are causing divisions between friends, discord within families, and opposition within the hierarchy of the Church itself. As has been foretold:

    Thus, I make it known to you that from the end of the 19th century and from shortly after the middle of the 20th century…the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of morals, for Satan will reign almost completely through the Masonic sects. … As for the Sacrament of Matrimony, which symbolizes the union of Christ with His Church, it will be attacked and deeply profaned. Freemasonry, which will then be in power, will enact iniquitous laws with the aim of doing away with this sacrament, making it easy for everyone to live in sin and encouraging the procreation of illegitimate children born without the blessing of the Church…
    - Our Lady of Good Success, Quito, Ecuador; 1610

    And again:

    "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, and bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their Confreres. The Church and altars will be vandalized. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    "The demon will rage especially against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them."

    -Our Lady of Akita, 1973, Church approved apparition

    And again:

    "I saw also the relationship between two popes ... I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city of Rome. The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness...

    "I had another vision of the great tribulation. It seems to me that a concession was demanded from the clergy which could not be granted. I saw many older priests, especially one, who wept bitterly. A few younger ones were also weeping. But others, and the lukewarm among them, readily did what was demanded. It was as if people were splitting into two camps.

    - Prophecy attributed to Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich, 1820

    And finally:

    Q. There is a prophecy by Sister Lucia dos Santos, of Fatima, which concerns “the final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan”. The battlefield is the family. Life and the family. We know that you were given charge by John Paul II to plan and establish the Pontifical Institute for the Studies on Marriage and the Family.

    A. Yes, I was. At the start of this work entrusted to me by the Servant of God John Paul II, I wrote to Sister Lucia of Fatima through her Bishop as I couldn’t do so directly. Unexplainably however, since I didn’t expect an answer, seeing that I had only asked for prayers, I received a very long letter with her signature – now in the Institute’s archives. In it we find written: the final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, she added, because anyone who works for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be fought and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head.

    Let he who has eyes, see.
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  20. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Sorry, I see no evidence of such in your recent posts here.

    God knows what I've suffered in fighting this agenda. Its not for you to know.
    Joe Crozier likes this.
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