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Golan Heights: Pillar of Cloud?

Discussion in 'The mystical and Paranormal' started by padraig, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. MonicaHope

    MonicaHope New Member

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    The Church's relationship with the Muslims. " The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
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  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes apparently according to Scripture and Catholic Prophecy what is going to happen is that the Jewish people will come back to the Church en mass.

    But more than that they will comeback at a time when we most need them and take things over and save us. I would love to live to see this.
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  3. Indy

    Indy Praying

    Come one, I thought everyone knew, the Irish are the chosen people! Alcohol was invented just to conceal that fact...
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    God loves us all so much He has no favourites.

    I have noticed though that some of our Protestant Evangelical Sisters and Brothers get carried away with the Israel thing. They believe that be financing and encourging the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem they will bring on Christ's return. As though Gad needed some kind of kick up the ass to get moving. :D

    They also fall right of the rails with this rapture stuff. We Catholics have a jump on them with Catholic Prophecy. Still they are about to rejoin us. But putting the State of Israel on a pedestal is a mistake.
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  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Sigh I have opinions about a billion things..and what does it all matter, better get back to prayer, something I at least know a little about:)

    Mary Mother of the Root of Jesse, pray for us.

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  6. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    There is some truth to Jewish prophecy. The return of the Jews to Israel and the building of the temple is part of revelation. It only makes sense that the AC would want Jeruselem so he can destroy Christianity.

    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
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  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes. It is possible, but the anti Christ is such a mystery. Blessed Pope Paul vi said some wise things about this, quoting St Paul as I recall:

    2 Thessalonians 2:7

    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


    Pope Paul VI

    General Audience November 15, 1972

    What are the Church's greatest needs at the present time? Don't be surprised at Our answer and don't write it off as simplistic or even superstitious: one of the Church's greatest needs is to be defended against the evil we call the Devil.

    Before clarifying what We mean, We would like to invite you to open your minds to the light that faith casts on the vision of human existence, a vision which from this observation point of faith reaches out to immense distances and penetrates to unique depths. To tell the truth, the picture that we are invited to behold with an all-encompassing realism is a very beautiful one. It is the picture of creation, the work of God. He Himself admired its substantial beauty as an external reflection of His wisdom and power.[1]

    Christian vision of the universe
    Then there is the interesting picture of the dramatic history of mankind, leading to the history of the Redemption and of Christ; the history of our salvation, with its stupendous treasures of revelation, prophecy and holiness, of life elevated to a supernatural level, of eternal promises.[2] Knowing how to look at this picture cannot help but leave us enchanted.[3] Everything has a meaning, a purpose, an order; and everything gives us a glimpse of a Transcendent Presence, a Thought, a Life and ultimately a Love, so that the universe, both by reason of what it is and of what it is not, offers us an inspiring, joyful preparation for something even more beautiful and more perfect.[4] The Christian vision of the universe and of life is therefore triumphantly optimistic; and this vision fully justifies our joy and gratitude for being alive, so that we sing forth our happiness in celebrating God's glory.[5]

    The mystery of evil
    But is this vision complete and correct? Are the defects in the world of no account? What of the things that don't work properly in our lives? What of suffering and death, wickedness, cruelty and sin? In a word, what of evil? Don't we see how much evil there is in the world-especially moral evil, which goes against man and against God at one and the same time, although in different ways? Isn't this a sad spectacle, an unexplainable mystery? And aren't we-the lovers of the Word, the people who sing of the Good, we believers-aren't we the ones who are most sensitive and most upset by our observation and experience of evil?

    We find evil in the realm of nature, where so many of its expressions seem to speak to us of some sort of disorder. Then we find it among human beings, in the form of weakness, frailty, suffering, death and something worse: the tension between two laws-one reaching for the good, the other directed toward evil. St. Paul points out this torment in humiliating fashion to prove our need a salvific grace, for the salvation brought by Christ,[6] and also our great good fortune in being saved. Even before this, a pagan poet had described this conflict within the very heart of man: "I see what is better and I approve of it, but then I follow the worse."[7]

    We come face to face with sin which is a perversion of human freedom and the profound cause of death because it involves detachment from God, the source of life. And then sin in its turn becomes the occasion and the effect of interference in us and our work by a dark, hostile agent, the Devil. Evil is not merely an absence of something but an active force, a living, spiritual being that is perverted and that perverts others. It is a terrible reality, mysterious and frightening.

    Seeking an explanation
    It is a departure from the picture provided by biblical Church teaching to refuse to knowledge the Devil's existence; to regard him as a self-sustaining principle who, unlike other creatures, does not owe his origin to God; or to explain the Devil as a pseudo-reality, a conceptual, fanciful personification of the unknown causes of our misfortunes. When the problem of evil is seen in all its complexity and in its absurdity from the point of view of our limited minds, it becomes an obsession. It poses the greatest single obstacle to our religious understanding of the universe it is no accident that St. Augustine was bothered by this for years: "I sought the source of evil, and I found no explanation."[9]

    Thus we can see how important an awareness of evil is if we are to have a correct Christian concept of the world, life and salvation. We see this first in the unfolding of the Gospel story at the beginning of Christ's public life. Who can forget the highly significant description of the triple temptation of Christ? Or the many episodes in the Gospel where the Devil crosses the Lord's path and figures in His teaching?[10] And how could we forget that Christ, referring three times to the Devil as His adversary, describes him as "the prince of this world"?[11]
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Other New Testament passages
    The lurking shadow of this wicked presence is pointed up in many, many passages of the New Testament. St. Paul calls him the "god of this world,"[12] and warns us of the struggle we Christians must carry on in the dark, not only against one Devil, but against a frightening multiplicity of them. "I put on the armor of God," the Apostle tells us, "that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the Principalities and the Powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness on high."[13]

    Many passages in the Gospel show us that we are dealing not just with one Devil, but with many.[14] But the principal one is Satan, which means the adversary, the enemy; and along with him are many others, all of them creatures of God, but fallen because they rebelled and were damned[15]—a whole mysterious world, convulsed by a most unfortunate drama about which we know very little.

    Man's fatal tempter
    There are many things we do know, however, about this diabolical world, things that touch on our lives and on the whole history of mankind. The Devil is at the origin of mankind's first misfortune, he was the wily, fatal tempter involved in the first sin, the original sin.[16] That fall of Adam gave the Devil a certain dominion over man, from which only Christ's Redemption can free us. It is a history that is still going on: let us recall the exorcisms at Baptism, and the frequent references in Sacred Scripture and in the liturgy to the aggressive and oppressive "power of darkness."[17] The Devil is the number one enemy, the preeminent tempter.

    So we know that this dark disturbing being exists and that he is still at work with his treacherous cunning; he is the hidden enemy who sows errors and misfortunes in human history. It is worth recalling the revealing Gospel parable of the good seed and the cockle, for it synthesizes and explains the lack of logic that seems to preside over our contradictory experiences: "An enemy has done this."[18] He is "a murderer from the beginning, . . . and the father of lies," as Christ defines him.[19] He undermines man's moral equilibrium with his sophistry. He is the malign, clever seducer who knows how to make his way into us through the senses, the imagination and the libido, through utopian logic, or through disordered social contacts in the give and take of our activities, so that he can bring about in us deviations that are all the more harmful because they seem to conform to our physical or mental makeup, or to our profound, instinctive aspirations.

    Ignoring the Devil
    This matter of the Devil and of the influence he can exert on individuals as well as on communities, entire societies or events, is a very important chapter of Catholic doctrine which should be studied again, although it is given little attention today. Some think a sufficient compensation can be found in psychoanalytic and psychiatric studies or in spiritualistic experiences, which are unfortunately so widespread in some countries today.

    People are afraid of falling back into old Manichean theories, or into frightening deviations of fancy and superstition. Nowadays they prefer to appear strong and unprejudiced to pose as positivists, while at the same time lending faith to many unfounded magical or popular superstitions or, worse still, exposing their souls-their baptized souls, visited so often by the Eucharistic Presence and inhabited by the Holy Spirit!-to licentious sensual experiences and to harmful drugs, as well as to the ideological seductions of fashionable errors. These are cracks through which the Evil One can easily penetrate and change the human mind.

    This is not to say that every sin is directly due to diabolical action;[20] but it is true that those who do not keep watch over themselves with a certain moral rigor[21] are exposed to the influence of the "mystery of iniquity" cited by St. Paul[22] which raises serious questions about our salvation.

    Our doctrine becomes uncertain, darkness obscured as it is by the darkness surrounding the Devil. But our curiosity, excited by the certainly of his multiple existence, has a right to raise two questions. Are there signs, and what are they, of the presence of diabolical action? And what means of defense do we have against such an insidious danger?

    Presence of diabolical action
    We have to be cautious about answering the first question, even though the signs of the Evil One seem to be very obvious at times.[23] We can presume that his sinister action is at work where the denial of God becomes radical, subtle and absurd; where lies become powerful and hypocritical in the face of evident truth; where love is smothered by cold, cruel selfishness; where Christ's name is attacked with conscious, rebellious hatred,[24] where the spirit of the Gospel is watered down and rejected where despair is affirmed as the last word; and so forth.

    But this diagnosis is too extensive and difficult for Us to attempt to probe and authenticate it now. It holds a certain dramatic interest for everyone, however, and has been the subject of some famous passages in modern literature.[25] The problem of evil remains one of the greatest and most lasting problems for the human mind, even after the victorious response given to it by Jesus Christ. "We know," writes St. John the Evangelist, "that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one."[26]

    Defense against the Devil
    It is easier to formulate an answer to the other question- what defense, what remedy should we use against the Devil's action?—even though it remains difficult to put into practice. We could say: everything that defends us from sin strengthens us by that very fact against the invisible enemy. Grace is the decisive defense. Innocence takes on the aspect of strength. Everyone recalls how often the apostolic method of teaching used the armor of a soldier as a symbol for the virtues that can make a Christian invulnerable.[27] The Christian must be a militant; he must be vigilant and strong;[28] and he must at times make use of special ascetical practices to escape from certain diabolical attacks. Jesus teaches us this by pointing to "prayer and fasting" as the remedy.[29] And the Apostle suggests the main line we should follow: "Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. "[30]

    With an awareness, therefore, of the opposition that individual souls, the Church and the world must face at the present time, we will try to give both meaning and, effectiveness to the familiar invocation in our principal prayer: "Our Father . . . deliver us from evil!"

    May Our apostolic blessing also be a help toward achieving this.

  9. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    It depends on how one understands scripture as it pertains to the 'building of the temple'. From what I know, the Church has not spoken definitively on this matter and at least one alleged prophecy form www.godspeakswillyouslisten.org gives a much different understanding than what most hold.

    11/6/07 (The last message given in the book GSWYL)
    "Many teach the antichrist will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false prophet and the anitchrist. Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by an antipope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the mass taking place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the Romans. The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of the antichrist. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled".
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  10. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    In MY opinion Gods chosen people are the Israelites. They have been under Gods watch since the beginning of time. Yes, some of them did not believe in Jesus but they still follow Gods law. I just don't see God ignoring his chosen people. He has continued to be with them. God has a plan for them and Jerusalem.

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  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    God will not ignore anyone who reaches out for the truth. The Jew's will be given one more chance to accept or reject Jesus at the Warning. But, God's Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and he is the Messiah that the Jew's rejected. Satan knows this and his target is upon the Catholic Church.
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  12. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I used to think muslims believed in the one true God, and called Him by another name. But have read in recent times the ala they speak of is not the one true God. It appears ala is the name of one of the false god's worshipped in mohammed's lifetime who happened to be his favourite.
  13. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    YUP!! Ol' Triple M just can't help himself! As I pointed out long ago, MMM obviously, like me, grew up in a very anti-semitic Catholic family. That was not uncommon and perhaps the norm in pre-Vatican II Days. :( Unlike me, however, MMM has not gotten over it and clings to the Replacement Theology Crowd to justify it all .... even in these, supposedly, more enlightened times? As we see in Islam and the American including Canada and EU Left, anti-semitism is still alive and "well"! :mad:

  14. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I don't believe that it's a matter of them or us in respect of God's chosen people. The Jews are God's first chosen. We were grafted onto the vine when, according to the Bible, God called us out of the darkness and into the light, as is proclaimed at Mass in the Eucharistic Prayer:

    "Through his cross and resurrection he freed us from sin and death and called us to the glory that has made us a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart.
    Everywhere we proclaim your mighty works for you have called us out of darkness into your own wonderful light."

    Was it St. Paul who said something along the lines that God won't desert the Jews and that the Jewish nation will convert before the end? Anyway, they will play a role when the AC arrives because Jesus told them that He came in the the Father's name and they rejected him but that they would accept another who comes in his own name. The Church Fathers believed that the AC will be Jewish, probably of the tribe of Dan (there's an Old Testament prophecy about something bad coming from that tribe but I can't remember the exact book or passage). So, whether the Jews convert before or during the persecutions of the AC, in the unlikely event that it happens in our lifetime, we will have a good clue as to the identity of the AC if he's a big hit with the Jews.

    American Protestants do appear to be obsessed with Israel and helping the Jews rebuild the temple but I don't think that there's anything in Catholic teaching about it. We know that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the perfect sacrifice, replacing the Temple sacrifice that ceased, anyway, with the Temple's destruction. I recall reading that one of the Fathers believed that the AC would rebuild the Temple, so perhaps that's another reason the Church isn't a proponent of its restoration. I don't know whether the American Protestants think that they will miss out on the persecutions thanks to their being lifted intro the sky or wherever they believe God will put them with their "rapture". If so, maybe that's why they are in such a rush to see it rebuilt.

    CrewDog: Don't be too hard on your supposedly anti-Semitic predecessors. I have heard it said that some European Jews were into Freemasonry at a time when the Masons were more openly anti-Catholic. I don't know whether that was the case in the US but if you have European roots I suppose it could have been passed down the generations. And neither do the Protestants deserve a pass on anti-Semitism. Martin Luther wasn't exactly the Jews' BFF. I also read somewhere that Hitler didn't poll nearly as well in Germany's Catholic regions as he did in other areas. History is complicated, written by the victors and often revised to fit with whatever message the prevailing power is peddling. Anti-Semitism is only on the rise in the European political left since the falling birth rate required immigrant replacements to shore up the cheap workforce and the Muslims tend to vote with and join left leaning parties. It's a matter of numbers for them. If there were more Buddhist or Hindus, they would embrace Buddhist or Hindu causes - all in the name of equality, of course.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
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  15. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    I think anti-Semitism was more institutionalized in the "Old Days" Catholic Church then one might care to believe these days, Dolours.

    My family was Irish and got off the boats between 1840-1860. My Dad who died in 86 and my Uncle in 12 went to their graves anti-Semitic. My older brother still is. This was long ingrained and just as the anti-Catholics are alive-n-well in my neck of the woods so are the anti-Semites as we see in the US Democrat Left and EU. I distinctly remember the phrase "perfidious Jews" in the Catholic Rite pre-Vatican II as talked about below:


    The Catholic Church[edit]
    Main article: Relations between Catholicism and Judaism

    The Second Vatican Council, commonly known as Vatican II, which closed in 1965, was instrumental in producing the document called Nostra aetate, which read in part:
    True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
    To further the goal of reconciliation, the Catholic Church in 1971 established an internal International Catholic-Jewish Liaison Committee and the International Jewish Committee for Interreligious Consultations. (This Committee is not a part of the Church's Magisterium.) After the committee met on May 4, 2001, Church officials stated that they would change the way Judaism is dealt with in Catholic seminaries and schools.
    This new understanding of the relationship between Christians and Jews is reflected in the revised liturgy of Good Friday in a particular way. The Good Friday Prayer of the Roman Rite had Catholics praying that the "perfidious Jews" might be converted to "the truth." The ancient meaning of the Latin word "perfidis" in that context was "unbelieving", yet the English cognate "perfidious" had, over the centuries, gradually acquired the meaning of "treacherous." In order to eliminate misunderstanding on this point, Pope Pius XII ordered in 1955 that, in Catholic liturgical books, the Latin word "perfidis" be more correctly translated as "unbelieving", ensuring that the prayer be understood in its original sense: praying for the Jews who remained "unbelieving" concerning the Messiah. Indeed, the same adjective was used in many of the ancient rituals for receiving non-Christian converts into the Catholic Church.
    Owing to the enduring potential for confusion and misunderstanding because of the divergence of English usage from the original Latin meaning, Pope John XXIII ordered that the Latin adjective "perfidis" be dropped from the Good Friday Prayer for the Jews; in 1960 he ordered it removed from all rituals for the reception of converts. See: Time Magazine August 15 1960. The current prayer of the Roman Liturgy for Good Friday prays for "the Jewish people, first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of His name and in faithfulness to His covenant."
    The term "traditionalist Catholics" often is used to apply to Catholic Christians who are particularly devoted to practicing the ancient traditions of the Church; yet there are also groups calling themselves "traditionalist Catholics" that either reject many of the changes made since Vatican II, or regard Vatican II as an invalid Council, or who broke away entirely from the Catholic Church after Vatican II. Some of these so-called traditionalist Catholics believe that the Pope at the time, and all Popes since, have led the majority of Catholic clergy and laity into heresy. They view interfaith dialogue with Jews as unnecessary and potentially leading to a "watering-down" of the Catholic faith. In the view of some traditionalist Catholics, Jews are believed to be damned unless they convert to Christianity. This, of course, is not the view of all who identify themselves as "traditional".
    In December 2015, the Vatican released a 10,000-word document that, among other things, stated that Jews do not need to be converted to find salvation, and that Catholics should work with Jews to fight antisemitism.[8][9][10]

  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Yes, a lot of prejudice has its root in an injustice done to an antecedent and is passed down through the generations.

    The Masons were not without influence in the persecution of Catholics in Ireland, and Richard has posted elsewhere excerpts from St. Maximilian Kolbe about the Jewish influence on the Masons. Like I said, history is complicated. Nonetheless, blind prejudice is never justified and left unchecked it leads to the worst kind of atrocities as has been demonstrated throughout history.

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