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Garabandal Info & Answers

Discussion in 'GARABANDAL LIBRARY' started by Aviso, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. insearch

    insearch Angels

    Jon, I am not a scholar in Eschatology but Antichrist is going to reign before the Second Coming of Christ or The End of the World, not before the "first resurrection". There has to be only ONE resurrection of the dead, and it is going to be after Second Coming for the Judgement Day. Not sure where the thousand years fit here and as far as I remember milleniarism is actually not recognized by Catholic Church, even considered a heresy, but is popular among Protestants and Zoroastrians.

    Good and sound explanations with diagram:

    http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap090000.htm

    In Catholic Church( and the same is in Orthodox) the teaching is that after Ascension Jesus Christ will come one time - for the Last Judgement. There is no space for thousand years of peace and millenial reiign so on.

    It is actually a very interesting question and I suspect the eschatological blurriness of the vision of the End Times from many apparitions are the reasons why many of them are not recognized.
     
  2. David Wilson

    David Wilson Guest

    Jon and insearch,

    The Millennium will take place. It is part of the revealed, written Word as found in St. John's Apocalypse. The Church has condemned a false interpretation of this Millennium (the heresy of millenarianism). BUT, the Church has not yet ruled on the definitive interpretation of the Millennium.

    The Millennium is a fascinating subject, perhaps better suited to its own thread.
     
    Jon likes this.
  3. insearch

    insearch Angels

    It is NOT a Catholic teaching. It is considered a heresy since Nicea. There is no space for Millenium Reign in Catholic Eschatology. NOW is considered to be the Millenium. Catholics are amillenials, which means they consider it's millenium number mostly symbolic.

    More on the subject here:
    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-rapture
    As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

    Roman Catholics generally follow the teachings of Augustine and the Protestant reformers, and accept Amillennialism. However, they do not generally use the term. They anticipate Jesus coming to Earth and gathering the Church together. But they generally do not use the term "rapture" either According to Catholic Answers, "The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called 'millenarianism' (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism 'cannot safely be taught,' though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue." 13
     
  4. David Wilson

    David Wilson Guest

    The Millennium is Catholic teaching. The Millennium is not a heresy.

    MillenARIANism (and its many modified forms) is a heresy. The three primary components that make up this heresy are: 1. A LITERAL 1000 year reign, 2. Christ reigning VISIBLY IN THE FLESH prior to the Second Coming and 3. Carnal delights during the Millennium and the idea that sin, death, and suffering will disappear during this Millennium.

    We know that the Millennium WILL happen because it is mentioned specifically in Chapter 20 of St. John's Apocalypse. Amillennialism is but ONE interpretation of the Millennium. It currently happens to be the POPULAR interpretation among theologians since the time of St. Augustine. It is by no means the DEFINITIVE or Traditional interpretation - a point that Cardinal Ratzinger made in an interview with theologian Rev. Martino Penasa in 1990.

    But, again, this subject is probably better suited to its own thread.
     
  5. insearch

    insearch Angels

    Catechism of the Catholic Church
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a7.htm

    The Church's ultimate trial
    675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
    676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578
    677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
     
  6. insearch

    insearch Angels


    No, it is NOT.

    I've posted the direct links and words of Catholic cathechism. There is NO Millenium reign. The Triumph of the Church is only through FINAL Passover :

    677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
     
  7. insearch

    insearch Angels


    Millenium is happening NOW. Awaiting for it to happen is actually milleniarism - that is the main distinction. Catholics are Amilleniarists ( following St.Augustine)

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a7.htm

    IN BRIEF
    680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ's kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.

    681 On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.
    682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.
     
  8. insearch

    insearch Angels

    Different authors use differnet terms, but milleniarism is actually the same as premillenialism or chialism and the belief is based on the actual reign of Christ for 1000 years and general triumph of the Church for 1000 years before final unleashing of evil ( not Catholic teaching and was declared heresy before St.Augustine).This is based upon LITERAL interpretation of Revelation Chapter 20.
    There is also amilleniarism which some name postmillenialism, now-millenialism or realized millenialism and it means that reign of Jesus Christ and His Church started ~ 30 A.D. and is continued until now - this is an accepted position of the Catholic Church, based on the symbolic interpretation of Revelation Chapter 20.
     
  9. insearch

    insearch Angels

  10. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    Just for the record, this is not something that I raised. I was unaware of the fact.
     
  11. David Wilson

    David Wilson Guest

    insearch,

    I am well aware of the portions of the Catechism that you have been citing.

    They have nothing to do with the Millennium. In fact, the word Millennium is not used once in the Catechism as far as I am aware.

    The Millennium is not the same thing as the "fulfillment" of the Kingdom, which you correctly point out will only come at the Last Judgement.

    The Millennium will happen since it is explicitly mentioned in Sacred Scripture. Just what this Millennium consists of or when it will happen, has NOT been defined defined by the Church. The Church has told us what the Millennium is not however, but that is all. The Church has not yet ruled on the proper interpretation.

    Amillennialism is not the final, definitive interpretation of the Millennium. It is but one interpretation and is currently the popular interpretation among modern theologians since the time of St. Augustine. But not even St. Augustine was settled on this interpretation as THE interpretation. The Church Fathers and early Writers believed in more than a mere allegorical Millennium.

    But I am done commenting on this topic. Like I said before, it belongs in its own thread, not on a Garabandal thread.
     
  12. insearch

    insearch Angels

  13. Glenn

    Glenn Powers Staff Member

    No I wasn't, our luncheon was postponed till May. When I do,I will post her response.
     
  14. Glenn

    Glenn Powers Staff Member

  15. Deborah Morehart

    Deborah Morehart New Member

    Thank you Glenn for your reply.
     
  16. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    Glenn if you think it appropriate to ask Conchita this one at your next coffee with her I would be grateful.
    (You can tell her I am a Kiwi but I am not talking of "that little white round thing" that a fellow NZer once embarrassingly spoke of to her.)

    Its about the strange incident of the "Voice from the Mountain". Very few Garabandal sources mention it because the event was so strange. I feel sure Conchita will not have forgotten it. The scanty reports I have seen go like this:

    "On that day the Virgin told us that on the following day we would hear a voice. But that we shouldn’t be afraid, and that we should follow the voice. On the next day and at the same time as on the previous day, (that is, at nightfall) the Most Holy Virgin appeared to the four of us. And for several minutes she was smiling very much. And she didn’t say anything to us. After a few minutes, darkness came upon us, and we heard a voice call us. Then Mari Cruz said, Tell us who you are; if you don’t, we will go home. While we were hearing the voice, it was very dark. And we didn’t see the Virgin. But afterwards she came. And it became very light. And she said to us, Don’t be afraid. And she spoke to us for awhile. And that night was the first night that she kissed us, one by one. And then she left."
    (I believe from Conchita's Diary)

    It happened a 2nd time as well:
    "We were running behind them when, near to the house that now belongs to Mercedes Salisachs, their expressions changed completely. And they began to shout out in a terrified voice, showing on their faces the greatest anxiety and fear. Who are you? Tell us. Who are you? They were like this for a few minutes that seemed interminable. It was at that time that María, Jacinta’s mother, told me confidentially, Yes-terday they heard that strange voice for the first time. And they were very afraid, even though the Virgin had warned them, saying that they shouldn’t be afraid. It seems that the voice sounds from afar, as if it comes down from the moun-tains. It’s like a hiss or a roar that cries, “Come. . . Come . . . Come . . .”
    (Reported by María Herrero Garralda, daughter of the Marquese de Aledo)

    My question to Conchita is whether she has reflected on this and whether it could possibly have been a singular Divine gift/experience rather than demonic?

    I know the girls were very afraid at the time - but there is such a thing as a holy fear before the Transcendence of God. I (and others) have often wondered whether the girls in their youth were unable to discern between the two.

    I am also aware that many say it was the evil one "running interference" on Our Lady - but it doesn't seem to fit.
    (I do know this "interference" seems to operate at other apparitions - e.g. a headless white apparition was apparantly seen by one of the seers at Fatima early on).

    When I was at Garabandal I asked this question of Amalia (Loli's sister). But she didn't understand what I was talking about!
    Either she had never heard of this rare incident or my Spanish translation was just too apalling!

    Do you have any opinions on this (or have you heard of any) yourself Glenn?
     
  17. Glenn

    Glenn Powers Staff Member


    I have only read about this three times in a little known book called " Memoirs of a Spanish Country Pastor " Father Ramon Garcia de la Riva ( on page 20) ,in the book " She Came in Haste to the Mountain, and Conchita's Diary. I don't know if this is an answerable question, but I do not think it was evil because of what Conchita said in her diary , but the words of the Virgin that Conchita relates in her diary, that we should not be afraid., and that we should follow the voice, seem to rule out this interpretation. I can ask her later this month.
     
  18. David Wilson

    David Wilson Guest

    Glenn,

    When you next talk to Conchita could you ask her to clarify something regarding the Warning:

    In a 1977 interview cited here (http://www.garabandal.org/News/Garabandal_Warning_Miracle_Interviews.shtml) the following question was posed to Conchita:

    Q. Many years ago you told us the event of the Warning begins with the letter "A. " Since Our Lady never told you not to reveal it, can you now mention it?

    A. She did not forbid it, but I don't know why I haven't said it and I don't feel as though I should say it now.

    Yet this website (http://www.tldm.org/news10/whencommunismcomesagain.htm) cites the following portion of a January 21, 2006 article by Barry Hanratty "The Warning of Garabandal":

    "The first of the three great prophesied supernatural events of Garabandal will be unprecedented in human history. It's been called different names. The Warning is the most common in the English language although this is not the best translation of Conchita's Spanish word for it: Aviso. Blessed Anna Maria Taigi referred to it as the Illumination of All Consciences which seems like a good description based on what has been revealed about it. And there is yet another name, the one the Blessed Virgin herself gave it that Conchita says begins with the letter "A" in Spanish but which she has never disclosed."


    So, I was wondering if you could clarify with Conchita whether the letter "A" refers to the first letter in another name for the Warning or is the first letter in an event associated with the Warning.

    Also, Conchita said in the 1977 interview that Our Lady did not forbid her from mentioning this word beginning with the letter "A" associated with the Warning. Could you ask Conchita if she still feels that this word beginning with the letter "A" should remain secret today?

    Thanks Glenn.
     
  19. Glenn

    Glenn Powers Staff Member


    David, No need to ask her again ,I have answered this previously ,it is the ''event" and two words have been mentioned,but (she's not sure which one )
    Asteroid,has been been considered,but it may also be"Aurora Borealis", which might be more in line with a "stars colliding " or a "light show" in the sky.

    Asteroide and Aurora Boreal. In Spanish
     
  20. David Wilson

    David Wilson Guest

    Okay, so it is definitely an event. I was confused.

    Thanks
     

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