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Evil Empire or Russia Consecrated?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Richard67, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Our Lady of Fatima talked about "diabolical disorientation", well this may not be diabolical, but it is surely disorientated!
  2. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Are you so confident I don't know the history? In fact, the Ukraine, which was a relatively stable democracy until the recent US/EU-sponsored revolution (which had more to do with providing a Germany with oil and gas to replace Merkel's absurdly-abandoned nuclear industry in the wake of the Japanese tsunami incident than any concern for the welfare of Ukrainians), with its considerable Ukrainian majority, was a much safer place for Ukrainians than the unstable strife-torn situation we have now.

    Should one visit the sins of the fathers (particularly when Father is one such as Stalin) upon those of the sons? We in Ireland have managed to make a reasonable effort at putting behind us centuries of often the most extreme persecution by our larger neighbour, so it is unreasonable to declare that the Ukraine cannot live alongside Russia on the back of an exceptional persecution and one which wasn't confined to the Ukraine alone but was part of a Soviet-wide liquidation of a Kulak class which was particularly concentrated in the bread-basket of the Ukraine. One cannot simply assume that Putin is another Stalin. His actions at present more resemble British support of Unionism in Northern Ireland than a Stalin-like liquidation.
    Dolours likes this.
  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The likes of Obama and Clinton, as with certain European leaders, bear considerable responsibility for this catastrophe. Now, of course, they may move in and 'help'. No self- interest, of course.

    There is poker involved, as neither side can predict the outcome of their actions, and the geography and state of weaponry involved mean the stakes are as high as can be.
    Booklady likes this.
  4. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    It is diabolical. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37125120

    I don't know whether you will be able to watch the report in the link. Basically, it's about a village with one Orthodox Church which is closed because some parishioners have remained loyal to the Russian Orthodox and some have broken away and decided to go independent with services in the Ukrainian language rather than Russian. The dispute means that neither side holds services in the Church - one lot uses the Church grounds and the other a nearby parking garage. The dispute has split some families.
    Booklady likes this.
  5. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    VLADIMIR SHOOTIN’ RUSSIAN PRESIDENT …. is gearing up for atomic war with the West by building top-secret nuclear shelters, security experts fear

    Western security chiefs fear Russian president Vladimir Putin is putting in place preparations for war with Nato.

    Satellite images have revealed a giant nuclear bunker facility in Russia’s remote Ural mountains region

    Mr. Putin has ordered the building of a 400-square mile facility in the remote wastes of the Ural mountains from where any future conflict could be directed.

    Satellite images reveal the location of the huge centre near Mount Yamantau.

    And the nuclear power is in the process of building the world’s most powerful nuke – the Satan-2.

    The deadly warhead is believed to be big enough to destroy an area the size of France.

    An Il-80 command aircraft would allow Russian defence chiefs to command the nation from 40,000ft in the the air.

    Russia currently has the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons – and security chiefs fear Putin is prepared to use themRussia reveals hypersonic stealth bomber that can launch nuclear attacks from space

    Russia already holds the world’s biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons – around 7,300 warheads.
    Some of those have been placed at the very extreme of its eastern coast – just 5o miles from US territory in Alaska.

    The Doomsday Clock – a means of measuring the likelihood of war – puts the current time at 23.57, with all-out war being 00:00.
    It represents the closest the clock has come to midnight since 1984 and before that the early-1950s.

    Should war break out, the Russians plan to conduct the first phases of a conflict from the high-tech Ilyushin Il-80 jet, experts believe.


    Sounds like things are in the ready to ignite after any Pope's visit to Moscow!!
    Booklady likes this.
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Western security chiefs may also be indulging in a certain degree of spin. Putin is not noticeably insane and such a war is more likely to occur by accident than design.
    AnnaVK likes this.
  7. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    Or as history has demonstrated often.....using "accident" for an already intended personal diabolical design!!
    AnnaVK and DeGaulle like this.
  8. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    It would appear that this current, perhaps revived, concern goes back to much earlier days in former regimes so is more than likely in a possible near completion stage if not already completed:


    On April 16, 1996, the New York Times reported on a mysterious military base being constructed in Russia:

    "In a secret project reminiscent of the chilliest days of the Cold War, Russia is building a mammoth underground military complex in the Ural Mountains, Western officials and Russian witnesses say.

    "Hidden inside Yamantau mountain in the Beloretsk area of the southern Urals, the project involved the creation of a huge complex, served by a railroad, a highway, and thousands of workers."

    The complex, being built inside Yamantau mountain by tens of thousands of workers, covers an area the size of the Washington area inside the Beltway.
    There are reportedly provisions for living inside the man-made caves. There is an underground warehouse for food and clothing, a shelter for the Russian national leadership in case of nuclear war, and rumors that the Yamantau Mountain project was associated with the so-called 'Dead Hand' nuclear retaliatory command and control system for strategic missiles.

    Some U.S. analysts believe the secret underground complex beneath Yamantau Mountain betrays a lingering belief among top Russian leaders that they must continue to prepare to fight and win a nuclear war.

    Since the end of the Cold War in 1991, U.S. intelligence sources believe the Russian government has pumped more than $6 billion into Yamantau alone, to construct a sprawling underground complex that spans some 400 square miles.

    In 1998, in a rare public comment, then-Commander of the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM) Gen. Eugene Habinger, called Yamantau

    "a very large complex -- we estimate that it has millions of square feet available for underground facilities. We don't have a clue as to what they're doing there."

    It is believed to be large enough to house 60,000 persons, with a special air filtration system designed to withstand a nuclear, chemical or biological attack. Enough food and water is believed to be stored at the site to sustain the entire underground population for months on end.

    "The only potential use for this site is post-nuclear war..."

    Rep. Roscoe Bartlett

    Bartlett is one of the handful of members of Congress who have closely followed the Yamantau project.

    The Yamantau Mountain complex is located close to one of Russia's remaining nuclear weapons labs, Chelyabinsk-70, giving rise to speculation it could house either a nuclear warhead storage site, a missile base, a secret nuclear weapons production center, a directed energy laboratory or a buried command post. Whatever it is, Yamantau was designed to survive a nuclear war.

    Yamantau Mountain is so secret that only a handful of Russian government officials knows about it, says Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa., who speaks Russian and travels frequently to Russia, chairing a congressional working group that discusses strategic issues with counterparts from the Russian Duma.
    Satellite photographs of Yamantau Mountain show continued digging at the "deep underground complex" and new construction at each of the site's above-ground support areas. Judging from satellite photos and other intelligence, US officials are fairly confident that the Russians are building an underground command bunker and communications installation.


    "... the Russians are not very interested in having us go in there," a senior American official said in Washington.

    "It is being built on a huge scale and involves a major investment of resources. The investments are being made at a time when the Russians are complaining they do not have the resources to do things pertaining to arms control."

    Aviation Week and Space Technology reported that,

    "The huge underground complex being built there has been the object of U.S. interest since 1992. 'We don't know exactly what it is,' says Ashton Carter, the Pentagon's international security mogul. The facility is not operational, and the Russians have offered 'nonspecific reassurances' that it poses no threat to the U.S."

    "I ask the Russians about it every time I meet with them... We've never had a straight answer."

  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Indeed. Accidental events may simply be those caused by non-human agency. That would be either Acts of God or of the devil. There is no such thing as blind chance.
  10. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    Looks like our little "angel" wants to go back to the "good" old days:

    Russia 'to revive the KGB' after Putin wins biggest majority

    A State Security Ministry, or MGB, would be created from the current Federal Security Service (FSB) , and would incorporate the foreign intelligence service (SVR) and the state guard service (FSO), under the plans. It would be handed all-encompassing powers once possessed by the KGB, the Kommersant newspaper said, citing security service sources.

    Like the much-feared KGB, it would also oversee the prosecutions of Kremlin critics, a task currently undertaken by the Investigative Committee, headed by Alexander Bastrykin, a former university classmate of President Putin. The Kremlin has not commented.


    Kremlin critics were horrified by the possible rebirth of an organisation synonymous in Russia with political oppression. “It’s time to get out [of the country],” wrote Elshad Babaev, a Twitter user. “Anyone who can should take the opportunity.”

    The MGB is not a new designation. It was the name of the state security apparatus for eight years during Joseph Stalin’s bloody rule.

  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Now why would they do that??? :sneaky: I had heard they were leading the return to faith and freedom!
  12. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    And they are. They just don't want Victoria Nuland the the other Neocon warmongers bringing "peaceful protests" and homemade cookies into Russia. In other more important news: the United States Military provides air cover for ISIS in Syria:

    DeGaulle likes this.
  13. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Bibi Backs Trump — on Putin

    By Patrick J. Buchanan

    Since Donald Trump said that if Vladimir Putin praises him, he would return the compliment, Republican outrage has not abated.

    Arriving on Capitol Hill to repair ties between Trump and party elites, Gov. Mike Pence was taken straight to the woodshed.

    John McCain told Pence that Putin was a “thug and a butcher,” and Trump’s embrace of him intolerable.

    Said Lindsey Graham: “Vladimir Putin is a thug, a dictator…who has his opposition killed in the streets,” and Trump’s views bring to mind Munich.

    Putin is an “authoritarian thug,” added “Little Marco” Rubio.

    What causes the Republican Party to lose it whenever the name of Vladimir Putin is raised?

    Putin is no Stalin, whom FDR and Harry Truman called “Good old Joe” and “Uncle Joe.” Unlike Nikita Khrushchev, he never drowned a Hungarian Revolution in blood. He did crush the Chechen secession. But what did he do there that General Sherman did not do to Atlanta when Georgia seceded from Mr. Lincoln’s Union?

    Putin supported the U.S. in Afghanistan, backed our nuclear deal with Iran and signed on to John Kerry’s plan have us ensure a cease fire in Syria and go hunting together for ISIS and al-Qaida terrorists.

    Still, Putin committed “aggression” in Ukraine, we are told.

    But was that really aggression, or reflexive strategic reaction?

    We helped dump over a pro-Putin democratically elected regime in Kiev, and Putin acted to secure his Black Sea naval base by re-annexing Crimea, a peninsula that has belonged to Russia from Catherine the Great to Khrushchev. Great powers do such things.

    When the Castros pulled Cuba out of America’s orbit, did we not decide to keep Guantanamo, and dismiss Havana’s protests?

    Moscow did indeed support secessionist pro-Russia rebels in East Ukraine.

    But did not the U.S. launch a 78-day bombing campaign on tiny Serbia to effect a secession of its cradle province of Kosovo?

    What is the great moral distinction here?

    The relationship between Russia and Ukraine goes back to 500 years before Columbus. It includes an ancient common faith, a complex history, terrible suffering and horrendous injustices — like Stalin’s starvation of millions of Ukrainians in the early 1930s.

    Yet, before Bush II and Obama, no president thought Moscow-Kiev quarrels were any of our business. When did they become so?

    Russia is reportedly hacking into our political institutions. If so, it ought to stop. But have not our own CIA, National Endowment for Democracy, and NGOs meddled in Russia’s internal affairs for years?

    Putin is a nationalist who looks out for Russia first. He also heads a nation twice the size of ours with an arsenal equal to our own, and no peace in Eurasia can be made without him.

    We have to deal with him. How does it help to call him names?

    And what is Putin doing in terms of repression to outmatch our NATO ally, Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and our Arab ally, Egypt’s General el-Sissi?

    Is Putin’s Russia more repressive than Xi Jinping’s China?

    Yet, Republicans rarely use “thug” when speaking about Xi.

    During the Cold War, we partnered with such autocrats as the Shah of Iran and General Pinochet of Chile, Ferdinand Marcos in Manila and Park Chung-Hee of South Korea. Cold War necessity required it.

    Scores of the world’s 190-odd nations are today ruled by autocrats. How does it advance our interests or diplomacy by having congressional leaders yapping “thug” at the ruler of a nation with hundreds of nuclear warheads?

    Where is the realism, the recognition of the realities of the world in which we live, that guided the policies of presidents from Ike to Reagan?

    We have been told by senators like Tom Cotton that there must be “no daylight” between the U.S. and Israel.

    Fine. How does Israel regard Putin “the thug” and Putin “the butcher”?

    According to foreign policy scholar Stephen Sniegoski, when Putin first visited Israel in 2005, President Moshe Katsav hailed him as a “friend of Israel” and Ariel Sharon said he was “among brothers.”

    In the last year alone, Bibi Netanyahu has gone to Moscow three times and Putin has visited Israel. The two get along wonderfully well.

    On the U.N. resolution that affirmed the “territorial integrity” of Ukraine, Israel abstained. And Israel refused to join in sanctions against a friendly Russia. Russian-Israeli trade is booming.

    Perhaps Bibi, who just got a windfall of $38 billion in U.S. foreign aid over the next 10 years from a Barack Obama whom he does not even like, can show the GOP how to get along better with Vlad.

    Lindsey Graham says that the $38 billion for Israel is probably not enough, that Bibi will need more, and that he will be there to provide it.

    Remarkable. Bibi, a buddy of Vlad, gets $38 billion from the same Republican senators who, when Donald Trump says he will repay personal compliments from Vladimir Putin, gets the McCain-Graham wet mitten across the face.

    DeGaulle likes this.
  14. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    What's wrong with homemade cookies?? Mr. Putin afraid he might receive some of his own "medicine" within....like polonium 210??

    Obviously also, a little state, attempting to merely survive, wouldn't wish to place even a bee in any honey offered to the bear!

    And Trump's entourage as well as enthusiastic backers could care less what a McCain or RINOs in toto say about either Trump or Putin! It's a whole new ball game.
  15. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    There is no evidence that Putin murdered Litvinenko. He had nothing to gain from it. There are much better suspects than Putin. I suggest you eductate yourself on the matter before repeating Obama-Neocon talking points:

  16. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    And you are best educated by offering the "fact" that there could be other suspects than Putin? IOW, not ruled out....even by yourself. Not an overwhelming defense. Somehow those closest to the demise are more familiar with the modus operandi. All hail the new KGB.....with all the same MOs! I don't go for rose colored glasses....rather blur the true vision!
  17. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    I'm all for the revival of the KGB if it means the end of the Neocon NWO. By the way, every nation on earth has an intelligence service. Maybe if they called it the RIA it would make you feel better.
  18. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    Ah yes, the sweet nostalgia for the days of the Stasi. Probably why some grow to prefer eternity in Hell because they actually feel more tortured in Heaven! No sense of perspective, .... to say the least!
  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The US seems to believe it must protect the world from Putin. What I wish to know is who is going to protect the world from the US? America has created multiple failed states and caused sheer catastrophe since the days of the elder Bush. Pope and Saint, John Paul II was a lonely figure opposing that first invasion of Iraq. How prophetic he was. 'Shock and Awe' has led us to a ruined Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen in consequence. The US is the primary exporter of abortion, sterilisation, contraception, homosexual rights and gender theory to the poorest countries of the world, often linking these evils with the granting of aid. So, Putin might be an authoritarian leader in a historically authoritarian country? Big deal. To me, the US of the post-Reagan years is far more dangerous, a reckless bully without its USSR counterweight. I am encouraged by Trump if he sticks to his claims of less foreign wars and more co-operative dealings with a Putin who is not quite the blackguard he is being labelled as, whereas Clinton will be more of the same, getting involved in more wars abroad and losing them with the inevitable disastrous aftermath.
  20. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    The US seems to believe it must protect the world from Putin. (DeGaulle)

    Unfortunately, from the beginning of his regime, Obama has done just the opposite......he's enabled Mr. Putin to be at the point where he is now.

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