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Evil Empire or Russia Consecrated?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Richard67, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    I am leaning more towards Russia Consecrated, especially when I read stories like this:

    Christian lobby seeks constitutional ban on abortions in Russia

    From the article:

    "An assembly gathered by Russian Orthodox Christians has passed a resolution seeking legislative changes to ban all abortions, claiming that human life begins at the moment of conception.

    The assembly united about 400 people and included federal and regional lawmakers, members of the Public Chamber, medical experts and members of various church-related groups from 40 regions across Russia. The session took place in Moscow’s Christ the Savior Cathedral – the most important Orthodox place of worship in the Russian capital.

    The human right for life from the moment of conception should be guaranteed by the Constitution and the process of changing the Constitution should be launched by a nationwide referendum,” newspaper Izvestia cited the resolution as saying..."

    http://rt.com/politics/206479-russia-abortions-ban-christian/
     
  2. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    When Russia is rightfully consecrated everyone in the world will know. There will not be any doubt or arguement about it. Same thing will occur when the Triumph of hte Immaculate herat of Mary takes place.....there will be no doubt about it, everyone in the world will know with certainty.
     
    kathy k likes this.
  3. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Fatima,

    I am of the opinion that Russia was properly Consecrated in 1984. I take Sister Lucia and the Vatican on their word when they said that Russia was properly Consecrated.

    With that said, the process of Conversion would have started in 1984 but is by no means complete. I believe the evidence of that process of Conversion is abundant. Just look at where Russia was before 1984 and where she is today. I mean, the very notion that Russian state officials would be considering banning abortion would have been an impossible thought prior to 1984. The very notion that the leader of Russia would publicly encourage Christian and conservative sentiments, as well as encourage State policies that enshrine Christian values would have been laughable before 1984 during the Soviet years. So, I firmly believe the process of Conversion is underway in Russia. Just how long this process of Conversion will take to reach completion is another question.
     
    djmoforegon and davidtlig like this.
  4. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I agree very much with Richard here. The Conversion is undoubtedly underway but clearly it has a considerable way to go. This can be seen in the report you quote. Here are the last couple of paragraphs:

    The move is not the first attack by the Christian lobby against pro-Choice activists, but all previous proposals have been rejected by the government over fears that the ban would only lead to a growing number of back-street, illegal abortions, and lead to more risks to women’s lives and health.
    In October 2013, an official representative of the Russian Orthodox Church attacked abortions and surrogacy as a “mutiny against God,” and less than a month later State Duma Deputy Elena Mizulina said in a speech that the community must urgently stop tolerating abortions and surrogacy as they threaten to wipe out the population of Russia and the world as a whole. The move gained little support from other politicians, however, and shortly afterward Mizulina played down her statements, saying that she merely wanted to draw attention to the problem and start a discussion, not introduce any legislative bans.


    But it is the direction of movement which is most enlightening. As the West becomes more secular and corrupt, Russia tries to take on Christian values.
     
  5. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Thanks David for those thoughts.

    I look at Fatima as the apparition that laid the foundation for what was to come. How this story ends may well depend on subsequent apparitions like Garabandal and Our Lady of All Nations.
     
  6. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Thanks to a link from Charlie Johnston's blog, a trail of articles which pull no punches about the current situation and the relation of the Moscow Orthodox Patriarchate to state power:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/392768/ukrainian-lessons-west-george-weigel (especially p.3)
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/politics-and-the-church/ukraine-rising.html
    http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/interchurch_relations/58006/

    I would just add that this ought to be obligatory reading for those out there who seem to have allowed their interpretations of prophecy concerning Russia to have clouded their capacity for applying (God-given) critical reason in evaluating the current tragic drama unfolding in Russia and the Ukraine.
     
  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Yes, Peter, I had seen Charlie's item and went to read the George Weigel article. I must say, however, that I did not find it very convincing. But I will certainly go and read your other links.
     
  8. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    It's hard to imagine how Archbishop Shevchuk must have felt to be present during Metropolitan Hilarion's attack against Ukrainian Catholics at the Synod. I know that MH had already stated these views back in the Spring, but actually to go to the Vatican and make such a speech is something I find very difficult to understand. For those with a heart for Christian unity this is all very painful. MH's remarks didn't go down very well with the Curia, apparently. Cardinal Dolan immediately interviewed Abp Shevchuk for his blog: you can listen to the podcast at

    http://cardinaldolan.org/index.php/a-conversation-with-his-beatitude-sviatoslav-shevchuk/
     
  9. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Peter,

    I will read those articles, but I must admit that I am not a fan of George Weigel. Although I admire him for his excellent biography of Saint John Paul II, I find his neoconservative foreign policy views to be most troubling, starting with his support for an unjust Iraq War that was, ironically, condemned by the very Pope that was the subject of his biography. I certainly would not consider Mr. Weigel to be an objective commentator when it comes to the situation in Ukraine, where the democratically-elected, pro-Russian President was deposed in a violent coup that was directly supported by neoconservatives in Washington. Hardly a credible source in my opinion.
     
  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    There must be and there will be a great internal revolution in Russia before their total conversion comes as Our Lady of Fatima foretold. America will go through its own revolution as well, because its loss of faith. In regards to Russia's conversion having already taken place, I defer to what our Lord told Verne Dagenais in his message as follows:

    09/25/07
    My son, there is much fighting in my church regarding the consecration of Russia. Many older prophecies were given regarding a communist led war which resulted in the destruction of much of Europe, including the Vatican. Documents released in your media verify these war plans. But my people forget one important factor in this discussion: God. I alone govern the universe and the affairs of mankind. I even govern the affairs of hell. Nothing happens without my will being done. Do you even think one moment; I am going to give glory to Satan and man’s pride? Remember Isaias 42:8: I, the Lord: this is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to graven things.
    My son, John Paul II consecrated the world to the Immaculate heart of Mary, as you already know. Do you not think my son, these consecrations bore no fruit? For I the Lord God Almighty creator of heaven and earth prophesy to you: The result of the consecration of the world to my son’s mother Mary had two effects. It interrupted and changed the plans of masonic communistic forces and it gave the world an extended period of my mercy. Do you truly think a consecration to the Mother of Mercy would have no effect? It allowed more souls to enter my kingdom. Do not forget my primary purpose is the salvation of my children. If you remember this son, world events will make sense to you. Look at events from the eyes of your Father in heaven, not with your human eyes and understanding.
    My son at Fatima, my daughter Mary asked explicitly for the consecration of Russia by the Pope and the bishops of the world. This event has not taken place as asked by my daughter Mary. If it had my son, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary would have already taken place. You would already be living in the era of peace. It is evident there is no peace in your world. Only a blind man would make such a statement.
    My son, mankind has not responded to my mercy. Mankind has increasingly become more evil and sinful. A day will soon arrive which will cause my wrath to chastise my children. Again, I say these words not to frighten, but to wake up my children. If you live in my peace, there truly is nothing to fear. Again, only the ungodly and lukewarm need to fear.
    My son, the Masonic communistic forces are again starting to rise in your world. The forces of Islamic terrorism, communism, and practical atheism are being used by Satan to cause another World War. For I the Lord prophesy to you again: If mankind refuses my mercy, another World War will be allowed and the man of sin will be allowed to chastise the ungodly and sinner. Read these words carefully. I am allowing these events because of my people rejecting my mercy. Where are the prayers, penances, and masses being offered in reverence for my honor and glory? Why do my people reject prayer and fasting to bring about my continual mercy on your world? Do you not see my hand in the weather changes and natural disasters occurring on your planet? Isaias 45:12, 18. I made the earth: and I created man upon it. My hand stretched forth the heavens: and I have commanded all their host. For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth and made it, the very maker thereof, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is no other. Remember stop trying to figure out the mind and purposes of the Almighty. Seek not the things that are to high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. Ecclesiasticus 3:22. But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, for I am the Lord that exercise mercy and judgment and justice in the earth: for these things pleases me, saith the Lord. Jeremiah 9:24. What did my son command you to do above all other things? Love your God and your neighbor. Are you truly fulfilling these two commandments? If not, repent of your sins.
    My son, while my people argue over the validity of the consecration of Russia, many souls are going to hell. Do not allow yourself to be caught in Satan’s trap. The consecration has not taken place. It will take place. The message of Fatima was primarily concerned with repentance and the salvation of souls. The consecration of Russia is a message addressed to the Pope and bishops of the world. Pray my Holy Spirit will give the Holy Father the strength and wisdom to overcome the forces fighting against him. My son, I am going to tell you why the consecration of Russia has not yet taken place. My church was not purified of the evil forces hiding among the clergy. Remember the Pope and bishops of the world are required to make the consecration. In the past, there were to many Bishops who were rebellious against the Holy Father for the consecration to have taken place. My Holy Spirit has led the Holy Father to purify my house. Once my church is purified and my house is in order, you will see the consecration of Russia done. As you have read, my son told Sister Lucy it would be done late. Now Read Isaias 55:8 , 11. For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it. Do not presume in your pride to know the mind of God. Do not cause division among my people by arguing over the consecration of Russia. It is a deceptive trick of Satan to prevent my people from focusing on your mission: the salvation of souls. Again, I will repeat myself for you. Your mission is to lead souls to my son Jesus Christ for salvation, not cause souls to leave my church because of your proud and argumentative spirit. I the Lord will hold you accountable for your actions, words, and thoughts, which cause another to stumble. The consecration will take place in my time, not yours or Satan’s. I receive no honor and glory from your pride but only from your humility. Be a part of my son’s army and my daughter Mary’s army. Fulfill your mission. Let those whose mission it is to work for the consecration of Russia, fulfill their mission. It is not your mission. Do not cause schism or division, but love and unity among my people. I repeat myself to stop the confusion among my people. If you do my will, I will protect and guide you no matter what takes place. For I am the same living God of the Bible who is your Father today and forever. I love you my people. Return to the Father’s fold through the graces of my son Jesus Christ, the power of my Holy Spirit, and the intercession of my daughter Mary. These are words from Almighty God to my people. Amen.
     
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  11. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Regardless of George Weigel's political views (which I do not necessarily share), I have to take issue with the opinion often expressed - and please don't take this personally, Richard, I'm discussing viewpoints, not individuals - that what occurred in Kiev in February was simply a violent deposing of a legitimate government. That is exactly what Moscow wants Westerners to believe, but it is as much of an over-simplification as the rhetoric of the American neocons on the other side. Having made a couple of public presentations about the Ukraine during recent months and done a fair amount of research using largely Eastern European and Russian opposition sources, my conclusions are as follows:

    I. Lawyers have been arguing about the legality of Yanukovych's removal from office; while this is a difficult question to adjudicate from a strictly technical standpoint, the Euromaidan case is nonetheless a strong one. Yanukovych may indeed have been democratically elected, but he forfeited any legitimacy with the Ukrainian people

    i) by turning his troops on the population: during the negotiations immediately prior to Yanukovych's overthrow, Polish foreign minister Radek Sikorski, attempting to broker an agreement, was caught on camera telling the demonstrators 'sign or you're all going to die'.

    ii) by fleeing the country and effectively abdicating his role as president. That was when the parliament deposed him in his absence: the legal basis for this, it is claimed, was Article 5 of the Ukrainian constitution
    which states that “the sovereign is the Ukrainian people who exercise authority either directly or through elected representatives”. This provision also provides that: “The Ukrainian people are the only subject eligible to adopt and change the constitutional order, a right which cannot be usurped either by the authorities or by the guardians of these organs.”source: http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/03/15/the-ousting-of-yanukovych-was-legal/
    Think of that what you will, but for anyone to state that this was an unambiguous case of an illegitimate coup is not consistent with the facts.

    II. It should of course be acknowledged that the US took a partisan and politically-motivated role in the events of early 2014. It also needs to be acknowledged that the Maidan coalition did include highly problematic extreme right-wing elements. However, the portrayal of the Kiev authorities as a 'Neo-Nazi' régime, an opinion frequently conveyed by the 'alternative media', is a huge overstatement; the results of the recent elections in the Ukraine underlined that the extreme right is a marginal force within Ukrainian politics.

    III. Russia's annexation of the Crimea was a clear violation of international law in terms of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial integrity, a guarantee which Russia signed and in return for which Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal. It speaks volumes about Russian governmental thinking that Dimitri Medvedev should have downplayed the 1994 Memorandum as only applying in the case of an external threat (think about that - what it clearly implies is that Russia considers the Ukraine an internal matter).
    That Crimea belonged to Russia prior to 1945 is irrelevant, because Ukraine is not a federal state and regions do not have the right to secede under the present constitution: the plebiscite in Crimea was unconstitutional and therefore illegitimate.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think one of the difficult questions which complicates this question is simply, how do you know that a Nation has converted..or is in the process of converting?

    What Signs should we look for that an Entire Nation is moving to the Light from the Dark? People quote some Signs that indicate a move to the Dark others indicate a move to the Light. But are there any firm scriptural indicators that we could use to lay solid grounds for understanding? My mind turns at once towards Israel in the bible. The Chosen people were constantly moving away from and towards the Light. Or to put it another way, they were like the rest of us constantly falling down and by the grace of God picking themselves right back up again.
    So what are the scriptural signs of Israel rising? I must pray about this and reread for Light.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Eamonn

    Eamonn Guest


    What does the word convert mean, to me it means changing from one thing to another. The Conversion of Russia means that Russia will convert back to the being a member of Gods One True Church with Peter as its leader. This has not happened yet just as the Period of Peace that Our Lady promised has not happened yet, these things will only come together when the Consecration has been done. Jesus himself told Sister Lucia that it would be late before it was done as to give as much time as he can to save as many sinners as possible.
    Carmel of Coimbra 1944

    After I heard the accelerated throb of the heart and in my mind a soft voice saying, 'over time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.In eternity, heaven! '.The word 'Heaven' filled my heart with peace and happiness, so that, almost without realizing, I kept telling myself for a long time: the sky, the sky. "
     
  14. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    My only question is this, what countries are the "Masonic communistic forces" Verne is referring to. I believe it is the us/zionist/west. Notice, all the Ukranian gold is gone.


    "My son, the Masonic communistic forces are again starting to rise in your world. The forces of Islamic terrorism, communism, and practical atheism are being used by Satan to cause another World War. For I the Lord prophesy to you again: If mankind refuses my mercy, another World War will be allowed and the man of sin will be allowed to chastise the ungodly and sinner. Read these words carefully. I am allowing these events because of my people rejecting my mercy. Where are the prayers, penances, and masses being offered in reverence for my honor and glory? Why do my people reject prayer and fasting to bring about my continual mercy on your world? Do you not see my hand in the weather changes and natural disasters occurring on your planet? Isaias 45:12, 18. I made the earth: and I created man upon it. My hand stretched forth the heavens: and I have commanded all their host. For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth and made it, the very maker thereof, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is no other. Remember stop trying to figure out the mind and purposes of the Almighty. Seek not the things that are to high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. "
     
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  15. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    One only has to listen to Our Lady of Fatima's own words to know when the conversion of Russia will take place. Very clearly she says on July 13, 1917:
    “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”

    Do you see peace today, 40 years after JPII consecrated the World to the Immculate Heart of Mary? Do you see Russia (not a handfull of Russian's, but Russia) converted? No, what we see right now in the world is the the result of not doing what she warned "she (RUSSIA) will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated"

     
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  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    pic... I know you lothe the USA, because you see it and only it as the great evil of the world. Masonic communism is everywhere now, because our Lady's specific words were not heeded. The US is not blameless by far, but on the flip side can you name one country that has been more charitable to the worlds needs in the past 100 years than America? America, like the rest of the world will pay its retribution to God for its sinfullness, but make no mistake about it, it is not alone in evilness.

     
  17. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    I love the USA, I loathe the bankers that own/run it and the lackeys they have put in power.
     
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  18. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Although we can only hope that our Orthodox brothers in Russia eventually return to full communion with Rome, the fact remains that the Orthodox Church in Russia is spiritually much closer to Rome than say our Protestant and Jewish brothers in the West.

    I think Our Lady of Fatima came to call for the conversion of Russia from Atheism back to her Christian roots. Our Lady first appeared in Fatima in May, 1917. I think she understood that Atheistic revolution was underway in Russia although the official revolution would not occur until October 1917. She knew what was coming, and so she came to offer the two-part rememdy: Consecration and the First Saturday Devotion.

    The period of peace depends on our response to the message of Fatima (especially the much overlooked First Saturday devotion) and may be tied into other apparitions like Garabandal and Our Lady of All Nations. I think at Our Lady of All Nations it was stated that Our Lady would not intervene until the Fifth Marian Dogma was declared.
     
  19. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Yes, I agree with this. Although Pope John Paul's consecration of 1984 led, I believe, to the miraculous fall of the Soviet empire, the fact that it had limited support (in the heart) from the bishops prevented a full conversion of the society, yet I believe it began with the fall of the atheistic empire and will continue to develop in the years ahead.
     
  20. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I am not convinced the Soviet empire fell. One would be more accurate to say it went underground and now is unearthing itself.
     
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