Emma Bonino; Abortionist.

Discussion in 'Positive Critique' started by padraig, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Thank you. Please note this is dated 2007 and therefore refers to Pope Benedict XVI.
     
  2. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Padraig has repeatedly stressed just how preposterous this line of spin has become. It has no credibility whatsoever.
     
  3. HomeSchoolMom

    HomeSchoolMom New Member

    Today's General Audience was terrific.

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    In these weekly catecheses inspired by the present Holy Year of Divine Mercy, we have often reflected on God’s fatherly love and forgiveness. The Prophets present this love also as involving correction, a summons to conversion and the renewal of the Covenant. Every parent knows the challenge of helping children to grow in freedom and responsibility. In the Scriptures, God expresses his dismay at the rejection of his love, as seen in the disobedience and sin of his children. If he chastizes his people, it is to move them to repentance and conversion. In his mercy, he asks them to turn back to him with all their hearts and to receive a righteousness that is itself his gift. God is pleased, Isaiah tells us, not by ritual sacrifice but by rejecting evil and practising justice. Though our sins be like scarlet, he will make them white as snow. May all of us be open, during this year of grace, to our heavenly Father’s merciful invitation to come back to him and to experience this miracle of his love and forgiveness.

    I even loved his 'off-the-cuff' remarks that came after.
     
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  4. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    A Holy Father, which is what our Lord's message was in reference to, is any validly elected Pope, the vicar of Christ, whether we like it or not. The message did not mention Pope Benedict once.
     
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  5. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    I have been led that this is absolutely true and what God expects of us:

    "If you are in rebellion, calumniating, or causing others to question the authority of my vicar, you are in rebellion against me. You will be held responsible for those you lead astray, if you do not repent. By your words and actions, you are persecuting me. You are led by your own pride, not by my Holy Spirit. For I am meek and humble of heart. Are your actions, thoughts, and words leading my people to me or away from me? Beware,the serpent is sly and can lead you astray. If my pope was truly teaching false doctrine,my spirit would lead and purify my church"
     
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  6. Frodo

    Frodo Archangels

    The message is very clearly affirming the authority of the Pop to establish the Novus Ordo. It would be a great stretch - assuming that these messages are true - to use this message to say that Our Lord was referring to praise of an abortionist on a plane ride home.

    You are missing the context of the message by leaving out the next line: "This schism over the validity of the mass must stop."

    I don't think this message lends itself to be used the way you both are trying to use it.
     
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  7. Heidi

    Heidi Powers

    No one is questioning the authority of the Pope.
     
  8. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    This really shows Our Holy Fathers belief in Mercy as well as chastisement. What is interesting is those off the cuff remarks seem to cause such debate throughout the world... that it might be sprinkling the seed of conversion. It is very interesting that the the next few weeks following his off the cuff remarks... he goes into his explanations in his homilies.

    For those of you (theologians) that seem to know more about God then the Pope.

    Those who unjustifiably assume the role of magistrate will fall victim to their own lack of mercy: this is what happens to those who judge a brother. In his homily, Pope Francis referred to Monday’s Gospel reading in which Jesus warned his disciplines against the hypocrisy behind judging others when you, yourself may not be blameless.

    “The person who judges,” the Pope said, “is wrong, is mistaken and is defeated” because he assumes God’s place: He who is the one and only judge.” Jesus’ accusation of “hypocrite,” Pope Francis pointed out, is addressed to all of us who hastily judge others. “God,” on the other hand, said the Pope, “takes his time” when handing down judgment.

    Alluding to Jesus’ words, the Pope said those who judge others mistakenly desire to remove the splinter from their brother’s eye without noticing their own eye is pierced by a wooden beam.

    He who does this, the Pope observed, “is so obsessed with the person he wants to judge -that person - so, so obsessed! That the splinter will not let him sleep! 'But I want to take away the splinter!' ... And he does not notice the log that he, himself has.” Such a person, said the Pope, confuses the splinter for a beam. He “confuses reality. He’s fantasizing. And he who judges becomes a loser, ends up badly, because the same measure will be used to judge him.” Those who are judgmental, the Pope concluded, assume the role of God and can bank on ultimate defeat.

    Only God, and those of his choosing, have the right to judge, affirmed the Pope who pointed to Jesus as an example to follow.

    "Jesus, before the Father, never accuses! It’s the opposite: he defends! He’s the first Paraclete. Then, he sends the second, who is the (Holy) Spirit. He is the defender: he comes before the Father to defend us against the charges.”

    In the Bible, the Pope continued, the "accuser" is the devil, Satan. “Jesus will judge, yes, at the end of the world,” the Pope added, “but in the meantime, he intercedes, defends.”

    Ultimately, he who judges, said Pope Francis, "is an imitator of the prince of this world who’s always behind people to accuse them before the Father."

    The Pope invited the faithful to “imitate Jesus: intercessor, advocate, lawyer” not just for ourselves, but for others too. And "do not imitate others, which in the end will destroy us"

    If we want to follow the way of Jesus, the Pope concluded, “more than accusers, we have to be defenders of others before the Father. I see a bad thing in someone – do I go defend him? No! But keep quiet! Go pray and defend him before the Father as Jesus does. Pray for him, but do not judge! Because if you do, when you do something bad, you will be judged. Let us remember this well; it will do us good in everyday life when we get the urge to judge others, to speak ill of others, which is a form of judging. "



     
  9. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    So when God spoke to Verne 10 years ago, He was only speaking about that specific Pope at that specific time? Please explain to me then why we daily read the Word He spoke 2000 years ago, those would have been only for the people at that time, right?

    Why do we live by the 10 Commandments that were given by God to Moses 3300 years ago, they were only for those people at that time, right?

    Why does our Church teach that these Words spoken 2000 years ago are how we should govern our conduct today? After all, He was only speaking about those Pharisees treatment of that prostitute 2000 years ago, not how we should treat other today, much less His Vicar on earth, right?

    John Chapter 8 3-11
    Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle. They said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. * So what do you say?” They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger.* * But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them,c “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he bent down and wrote on the ground. And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him. Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”She replied, “No one, sir.” Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, [and] from now on do not sin any more.”
     
  10. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    fallen saint, as I do not believe in coincidences, I find it very enlightening and affirming that John 8 was what was called on my heart to post in reply at the same moment you posted this:

    He who does this, the Pope observed, “is so obsessed with the person he wants to judge -that person - so, so obsessed! That the splinter will not let him sleep! 'But I want to take away the splinter!' ... And he does not notice the log that he, himself has.” Such a person, said the Pope, confuses the splinter for a beam. He “confuses reality. He’s fantasizing. And he who judges becomes a loser, ends up badly, because the same measure will be used to judge him.” Those who are judgmental, the Pope concluded, assume the role of God and can bank on ultimate defeat.

    Only God, and those of his choosing, have the right to judge, affirmed the Pope who pointed to Jesus as an example to follow.

    "Jesus, before the Father, never accuses! It’s the opposite: he defends! He’s the first Paraclete. Then, he sends the second, who is the (Holy) Spirit. He is the defender: he comes before the Father to defend us against the charges.”

    In the Bible, the Pope continued, the "accuser" is the devil, Satan. “Jesus will judge, yes, at the end of the world,” the Pope added, “but in the meantime, he intercedes, defends.”

    Ultimately, he who judges, said Pope Francis, "is an imitator of the prince of this world who’s always behind people to accuse them before the Father."
     
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Thank you, FatimaPilgrim and fallen saint for posting the above quotes. Pope Francis absolutely gets it right about judging.

    However, prepare yourselves for the onslaught from those who believe judging of others is necessary.... :)
     
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  12. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    Thx but no preparation for that needed. When you stand in the light of Truth, you stand in the light of Truth on solid ground, the Rock as it were :)
     
  13. Frodo

    Frodo Archangels

    Honestly, I'm not even sure if a response will help or if you are just joking with me, but I'll try.

    I was pointing out the context of the message, in no way (rather obviously) does that invalidate the scriptures or moral teaching of the Church.
     
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    There are so many good people, converts and reverts, leaving the Faith over the words and actions of this Pope right now that to claim these statements, one in dissent of Humanae Vitae, the other openly praising an abortionist, are bringing souls into the Church is worthy of ridicule.
     
  15. Frodo

    Frodo Archangels

    Ironically FS, if "judging" is to be interpreted as you say it should be, then by the above quote you would also be guilty.

    Ultimately I'm sorry for having derailed the thread, that wasn't my intention.
     
  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Thank you. Selectively quoting out of context passages from sources not yet approved by the Church just does not lend credibility to a point of debate.
     
  17. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    I completely understand what you meant. And I'm pointing out the context of the Word to show that when God speaks, it's not simply to one set of people at one point in time. He transcends time and the Word and His Words are meant for all people of all time. He's taught us and continues to teach us how to live and how to treat one another, including and probably moreso, how to treat His Vicar on earth :)
     
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Please don't compare unapproved private revelation to Scripture. There is no comparison. Once it's approved, it's still just private revelation that the Faithful are free to accept, or not, unlike Scripture.
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Yes, we are free to judge the actions of others when they commit blatant and public sin for all to see. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust the judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

    So there is a difference between judging the actions and deeds of a person. Only God can judge a person.

    “To judge” as it is used here does not mean that people cannot discern that an act is sinful, nor does it mean we can’t tell the sinner that he or she is sinning. If that were so, then we parents could not ever tell our child that it is wrong to lie, to cheat, or to steal. And if the child were caught in the act, then no parent could tell them that they were wrong. And they could certainly not ever punish the child, because there could never be any wrongdoing. How dumb is that? Carried to its logical conclusion, no one could ever tell anyone that anything is sinful or wrong, including fornication, adultery, stealing, murder, taking the Lord’s name in vain. And we would have to fire every judge in every courtroom worldwide.

    St. John the Baptist, the greatest man born of woman, according to Jesus, certainly told Herod that it was wrong for him to have married his own brother's wife. And John the Baptist was certainly not judging Herod himself, but rather, he was judging his action as sinful. There is a big difference.

    So when a politician like Emma Bonino or any politician publicly promotes abortion I have a duty to oppose her and pray for her conversion. This is not judging her but judging her actions. Her political record is there out in the open for all to see - she makes no apology for abortionist position indeed the world has showered her with awards and accolades since she is the 'darling' of the abortion brigade and an icon of their movement!

    Don't we make these judgements even at election time by voting for pro-life candidates and opposing those with an anti-life mentality by denying them our vote?
     
  20. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Jesus never accuses?

    Of the Pharisees he states, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?”
     
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