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Don't hate me, just questioning

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by Dean, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think what will happen in Med as part of the Secrets is nuclear weapons will be used in the region but the village itself will be preserved.
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I know:oops:
    Too late in the game to be looking at these any how.
    Time will tell.
    Don_D likes this.
  3. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Yes, I don't seem to find myself agreeing with you very often, garabandal, but on this we are agreed.

    For anyone actually interested, here is a German video about the scientific tests done on the visionaries:

    Dean likes this.
  4. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes Mac. That was one of the sticking points for me. The “drop of poison” in the beautiful cup. All religions are not the same. Also two bishops whose responsibility it was to judge and given that charism by Christ —ruled against it. Fortunately we are not required to believe any approved apparition let alone unapproved.
    Mac and Seagrace like this.
  5. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes. Time will tell.
    Mac likes this.
  6. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    And then, when the secrets begin to unfold, will those who have waited say to Our Lady - "You should have made things clearer!"

    lynnfiat likes this.
  7. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    Some of the comments here make me so sad for Our Blessed Mother! If you don't believe - go there yourselves and then judge if it is true not, but do not be negative in your comments if you have not even been there. For those of you who commented about the "money " - you may want to see how the visionaries live. Also, I highly suggest you read Mirjana's book, "My Heart Will Triumph" to see what these visionaries went through as children when Our Lady appeared to them - similar to the children of Fatima - or do you not believe that also? Very sad!!!
    Shae likes this.
  8. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    There will always be doubters in what heaven has and is unveiling. Nothing new under the sun. Those with faith in what heaven is doing will be blessed. Those who can't believe will receive from God what they deserve.
    Ed Kleese and lynnfiat like this.
  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    My Mother and Father never believed so I understand. There apparitions are astounding really ,so I understand them being hard for some folks to swallow. They are far and away the most huge Marian apparitions ever.
    Ed Kleese likes this.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    lynnfiat likes this.
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    One good thing I will say is that at least we are able to discuss this topic peacefully now. I remember a couple of years ago it was well know on the forum that you never ever should bring up any doubt about Medjugorje or you were instantly set upon. Whether it is the Vatican's recent statements about it or simply people's individual reassessments or whatever it is nice to be able to voice our differing opinions in a peaceful way, while also being respectful of other's opinions :)
    AED, sterph, HeavenlyHosts and 4 others like this.
  12. Frodo

    Frodo Principalities

    Really? So one will be punished for not believing in an unapproved apparition that has been twice rejected as supernatural by the bishop in authority? Me thinks you are taking this a bit too far.

    What type of people do you think "we" are on this forum? Of course we love Our Lady. Of course if the apparitions are true we would happily be the doubting Thomases and admit our mistake. I'm a little disappointed in the comments by some here. They show much more charity to protestant visionaries than to those who share our faith and try to live it out. I'm pretty sure Our Lady would be more sad about that.

    With that being said, I hardly expect the secrets to happen. I believe it is much more likely a stall game to keep people waiting for events that will never happen. Make them think we have time which we do not. And in the end make them give up when they are proven to be false.

    Also, if she really did think Our Lady was going to drop Our Lord (how ridicules) why is it that she moved BACKWARDS and continued on as if not to miss a beat after she flinched?

    Doesn't make any sense.
    AED, BrianK and Mac like this.
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Did I say one will be punished for not believing in a messenger? No!! You need to read more carefully. God will bless and withhold blessings for what we accept or reject from him. If that is your view of being punished, then so be it.
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think Fatima that it was the sentence you wrote "Those who can't believe will receive from God what they deserve" that sounded kind of off-putting. I don't think you meant it as it might have come across. In common parlance when someone says "You will get what you deserve" it is not usually something nice. Again, I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but at first read it looked like that to me too.
    AED, Fatima, BrianK and 1 other person like this.
  15. If you watch the video included by Dean, there are two errors in reporting in the first minute of the video. #1 is that the apparitions began in 1985. That is incorrect! They began June 24, 1981. Error #2 in reporting is that the visionaries just have apparitions on Fridays. That is incorrect. They have had apparitions everyday. Now (2018), just three of the visionaries have apparitions every day. Given that two major errors in reporting are stated as facts in this video, how do we know that Vicka even said those words after the apparition? When the researcher attempted to poke her eyes, she barely recoiled and kept her gaze on the Virgin. This video does not dissuade me. Medjugorje is for those who are burdened in mind, body and spirit to be freed and healed. There is great healing and blessings available for those who believe. Carol mentioned the cross on the mountain with respect to the vision of Lucia in the third part of the Fatima secret...we have been told that Medjugorje is the fulfillment of Fatima. Brian K. mentioned that it is curious that Pope Francis is dismissive of Medjugorje. Very curious indeed. Here we have messages that seem to be completely in line with something Pope Francis would say, and yet he is dismissive. Makes you wonder if he is afraid of the Virgin?
    Don_D and Carol55 like this.
  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Dean, Thank you for posting this, I have seen this incident discussed in the past and it is difficult to explain it away as the seer has tried but I wonder if the seers felt pressure to go into ecstasy some times and maybe this is what occurred at this time. Maybe this particular seer, Vicka, who flinched was not included in this particular apparition and she faked it and did not want to admit it.

    Does anyone know why they appear to get their messages separately now? Am I correct that Mirjana and Ivan have separate visions/messages now? Are they the only seers who still receive visions/messages? Thank you. I really do want to learn more and it is difficult to understand this from the associated websites about the apparition.

    At first, I was really very uncertain about this apparition and now I am still uncertain but less so. I think it takes a lot of time to study it fully and I have been relying on what the Church's ruling is and since they appeared to give approval for the first few years and not a completed statement on the whole apparition yet, I am still waiting I suppose but I think it is possible that it may be a mixed ruling if that is possible.

    The most recent statement form the Church was that they allow us to visit Medjugorje (of course) but not participate in the visions/messages. Is that correct? I find it confusing to say the least.
  17. Frodo

    Frodo Principalities

    So He will withhold blessings from us if we do not believe in Medjugorje? Can you further explain what these blessings are?
  18. Responding to Carol
    Of the six seers, Ivanka, Jacov and Mirjana do not have daily apparitions. Ivanka has a once a year apparition on June 25th (which is the anniversary date for the Queen of Peace apparitions). Jacov has his once a year apparition on Christmas Day. Mirjana has a monthly apparition on the 2nd of the month for those who have not yet experienced the love of God (unbelievers). Typically, this apparition is videotaped. As some have noticed, Mirjana has lower back pain, but when she is in ecstasy, the pain goes away, but once the apparition is over, the pain is evident on her face. There is also evidence that some of the pilgrims who attend the the second of the month apparition may need deliverance. You can sometimes hear the terrible sounds of someone being delivered from evil during the apparition of the Virgin. The other six seers, Ivan, Vicka, and Marija continue to have daily apparitions. Marija is given a message for the world every 25th day of the month. One more note, Mirjana has a yearly apparition on the 18th of March which will have some importance in the future.

    As to the question of do they have apparitions separately or together. Only in the first years, 1981-1983 did they have apparitions together and even then, not all, because Mirjana was back with her family in Sarajevo attending school.

    Just my opinion, but it seemed very important that the whole parish was supportive of the six young seers because they faced formidable resistance from the Communist authorities, and from the clergy at first. Despite harsh interrogations, threats, and humiliations, they have never renounced or doubted the apparitions of the Virgin. (sorry to say, but the same can not be said of the Garabandal seers....they doubted)
  19. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Waiting by the window, You have made many good points. I think that you have nearly answered all of my questions except I am wondering if the three seers receive separate apparitions. They do, right? Which seers are they: Mirjana, Ivan and Vicka? Thank you.

    I hope that you don't mind me asking what you mean by "Here we have messages that seem to be completely in line with something Pope Francis would say"? Are you referring to the fact that some of the messages, at least one, mention something about ecumenism? I vaguely remember reading an article about this on MOG.

    One last question, did the seers state the following from a message they received from Our Lady, "that Medjugorje is the fulfillment of Fatima"? Thank you again.


    Someone asked me about the 3rd secret yesterday so it was on mind. In addition, there are two prophecies about a Pope fleeing the Vatican which may or may not be related to each other. Saint John Bosco has a Pope leaving for 400 days and then returning; and Pope Saint Pius X has a pope leaving and then eventually being killed. In the following prophecy, many people believe that Pope Saint Pius X could be speaking of Pope Benedict as you know but some question his ability to "flee" etc. because of his frailty.

    In 1909, during an audience for the general chapter of the Franciscan Order, Pope Saint Pius X (born Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto)
    suddenly fell into a trance. The audience waited in reverent silence. When he awoke, the Pope cried out,

    "What I see is terrifying! Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the Pope will quit Rome,
    and in leaving the Vatican he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests.
    Do not tell anyone this while I am alive."

    Just prior to his death on August 20, 1914, Pope Saint Pius X had another vision,

    "I have seen one of my successors, of the same name (Joseph/Giuseppe?), who was fleeing over the bodies of his brethren.
    He will take refuge in some hiding place; but after a brief respite he will die a cruel death.
    Respect for God has disappeared from human hearts. They wish to efface even God's memory.
    This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world."

    Maybe it is not literal, it is so difficult to be certain. Maybe Pope Benedict has sort of fled the Vatican already, maybe his brethren are dead in the spirit of Christ. Maybe his cruel death, is that he dies of a broken heart. I know the 3rd secret of Fatima appears literal so, of course, I am not certain and there are many other prophecies which appear to speak of a physical attack on the Vatican also, "he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him" but the Bible speaks figuratively of soldiers, of good soldiers of Christ Jesus 2 Timothy 2:3 maybe these soldiers are not the good ones.

    If the vision above of Pope Saint Pius X is, in fact, of Pope Benedict then I pray that when he states days, it is many, many, many days.

    I also wonder if Saint John Bosco's vision of a pope leaving the Vatican for 400 days occurs at the same time and if his vision is of Pope Francis & the world experiencing a renewal of the Faith. Maybe this vision is also not literal and this has begun already, many have already left Rome in spirit possibly including the Pope. We discussed this prophecy a little bit on the following thread if anyone is interested, in particular we made note of the fact of Saint John Bosco mentioning two full moons appearing in one month in this prophecy and how this occurs this month and also again in March this year.

    I need to up my prayers for the Popes, I have been falling short lately. We could be very close to the Warning, now is the time to really focus and I have not been.
    ComeSoon! likes this.
  20. Carol, Yes, the seers receive separate apparitions. Mirjana, Ivan, Vicka, and Marija and then for the yearly ones it would be Ivanka and Jacov. The messages speak of opening our hearts to the love of God, forgiving, not judging, making peace with each other, but most of all making peace with God and loving Him. They have said that never before has God been so disrespected. More frequently the messages say that those that do not love God have no future and no eternal life. Here is one memorable message that connects Medjugorje to Fatima

    August 25, 1991 "Dear Children! Today also I invite you to prayer, now as never before when my plan has begun to be realized. Satan is strong and wants to sweep away my plans of peace and joy and make you think that my Son is not strong in His decisions. Therefore, I call all of you, dear children, to pray and fast still more firmly. I invite you to self-renunciation for nine days so that, with your help, everything that I desire to realize through the secrets I began in Fatima, may be fulfilled. I call you, dear children, to now grasp the importance of my coming and the seriousness of the situation. I want to save all souls and present them to God. Therefore, let us pray that everything I have begun be fully realized. Thank you for having responded to my call."

    Thanks for your methodical work to bring prophecies to this forum.
    Carol55 likes this.

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