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Correction of Amoris Laetitia Is About to Be Published

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by BrianK, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    Yes, the latter portion of your post has been my concern for months. We have started RCIA and attend a conservative Parish but to be honest, if we make it to Easter without schism I will be amazed. I have prayed about this very thing a great deal. I trust that we will arrive at our destination.

    One thing to remember is that the sincere desire to take part in the Sacraments is what is required if one is not able to partake (for someone who is new) due to the entry process to the Church. I believe that it is a very good thing that we have RCIA on the one hand because it firmly grounds us in the sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and magisterium. The church has plenty of "bad" Catholics not grounded in these teachings or improperly taught. RCIA should help to teach Catholics to understand and who in turn can evangelize and defend their Faith in Charity.

    On the other hand, in times such as these it is truly disconcerting for someone who does not understand how these things work. We of course wish to do what is right so we are obedient to the Church and place our trust where it belongs. In Christ.
    AED, gracia, Dolours and 1 other person like this.
  2. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    When my wife became Catholic, I attended with her and we had a superb class from a top notch priest who is now pastor of the Latin Mass Community in the Camden NJ diocese. When we came back to the local PA Diocese I volunteered for our local diocesan RCIA program but it was a bunch of "gaze at your navel lint and light a candle" drivel.

    I prefer the old method, prior to RCIA.


    Previous Question Next Question

    Problems with RCIA
    Question from Steve Ulrich on 11/14/2003:
    Dear Catholic Answers, I am in RCIA but am growing disinterested in it. We meet once a week for 2 hours and have a small discussion after each sunday mass. I feel like what we are going over is something I could learn with 5 minutes of reading the Catechism. It is annoying because while there are so many things I want and need to be learning in the program, they waste my 2 hours by going over a single topic in the form of group discussion. The topic is usually presented and then each candidate leaves to another room with their sponsors to discuss the topic and then everyone returns and the topic is discussed a bit with some bible readings. One topic is gone over, is all. More time is spent too in a little break to eat a snack, in the beginning to sing a song, and usually now and again one candidate will bring up a question which sometimes leads into an endless discussion that is predominantly done with confusion and not with enlightenment. There has not been a single time when a Catechism has been used. I don't like this means of learning; perhaps the others benefit from it, as scant as it is in discussion. It has left me in confusion. Should I quit RCIA? How do I know where to find a good RCIA program? Do most programs teach in the style I described above? I want to find another program, but I don't have transportation and might now have the time. These things can be overcome easily Im sure however. I am only beginning to look into it. I really dont want to end up quitting RCIA and not getting confirmed. I have many many times skipped mass because the only thing I always find of interest in mass is the eucharist, unless i am at a Roman Catholic mass, where things are not conducted in such a protestant-like manner. I dont want to have to wait until next year's rcia starts because I probably would not attend mass too often.

    Please let me know what my options are with RCIA, Thank you and God bless you,


    Answer by Catholic Answers on 11/17/2003:
    Dear Steve,

    Unfortunately, most RCIA programs that I know of are lacking--some, to a great degree. Try another parish or if you live near the boundary of your diocese, try one in another diocese. If all fails, supplement your classes with reading the Catechism on you own and contact us here or by phone at Catholic Answers if you have questions. The Old Catholic Encyclopedia on line will be helpful as well: "newadvent.org/". You are in our prayers. Don't give up. Hang in there. You have a lifetime of opportunity to learn more about our Faith and we are always here to help.

    Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

    COPYRIGHT 2017
    And a more in depth look:
    AED and gracia like this.
  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Brian, the above highlight reminds me of Hebrews 12:

    22 But you are come to mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to the company of many thousands of angels, 23 And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel.

    You may have one foot planted in this world, but the truth is we have already come to mount Sion, and you have your other foot planted solidly in the midst of the heavenly Liturgy!:notworthy::ROFLMAO: Laudem Dei!

    In humble prayer we ask you, almighty God: command that these gifts be borne by the hands of your holy Angel to your altar on high in the sight of your divine majesty, so that all of us who through this participation at the altar receive the most holy Body and Blood of your Son may be filled with every grace and heavenly blessing. (Through Christ our Lord. Amen.)
    BrianK likes this.
  4. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Yes, I'm living a life of cognitive dissonance. On one hand I'm trying to start a new company and market something I've invented. On the other, I doubt it will ever come to fruition because of The Storm that is hitting us. Despite this I can honestly say I'm at peace, because that other foot is firmly planted in the hope of the Heavenly Jerusalem. Maranatha!
    gracia likes this.
  5. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    I have no idea of the old way Brian. Sadly this persons question was akin to our initial experience somewhat as well.

    We changed Parishes to find one more traditional than our local Parish. It is nothing like what is described above. I have wondered several times if the Church is actually trying to turn people away rather than instruct them with the length of this process. We have been attending our Parish for 9 months and are only now past our second weekly meeting. After over a year now of attending Mass with our children.

    That said, after our last meeting my eldest daughter told me that she had several moments where the light came on concerning questions she had when we were receiving instruction last week. So, I am pleased that it is helping us to better understand the Faith.
    AED, gracia and BrianK like this.
  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    gracia likes this.
  7. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Angels

    will the pope give episcopal conferences more power to decide on the doctrine of the church?
  8. dcana

    dcana Angels

    It seems that the news would be considered 'good news' by those around these parts, including myself.
    Maybe it has something to do with the dubia? Could something from Card. Burke tomorrow be considered "from Rome"?
    I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow, which is only a day away. :)
    AED and gracia like this.
  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think the pictures Rorate Caeli posted on the twitter feed say more about what it is than the actual words they wrote...
    AED likes this.
  10. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    Raymond Arroyo‏Verified account @RaymondArroyo 55m55 minutes ago

    Update: I now hear the announcement will certainly impact Rome and the Pope. But will not come from the Vatican. #AmorisLaetitia ...
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Based on serious insider information (among the competing voices purely from inside my head)...

    Surprise headline, dateline Sunday evening, 9/24/17:

    "In a gentle and filial gesture, considering that his workload and schedule were light this fall, Pope Emeritus Benedict has decided to "re" consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and he has written to all the world's bishops "if they still consider themselves faithful Catholics" to join him in the "re"consecration on October 13, 2017 at 3:00pm Roman time."
  12. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Then it can only be the Dubia/Correction, or some surprise announcement of irregularities being investigated regarding the resignation or the conclave. My money is fully on the Dubia/Correction.
    Mary's child and Carol55 like this.
  13. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Arroyo also tweeted that he heard from two sources that the news is liturgy related.
    Mary's child and Carol55 like this.
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member



    23 September 2017
    Breaking News

    There are wild rumours on the Internet about News due to break tomorrow, Sunday. They are, as far as I know, all wrong. Far too wild. Far too dramatic. Far too much in the febrile spirit of the current pontificate. Calm down! ... No; it's not that, either !!

    But, tomorrow, a piece of news will break: an action taken by a small group of small and very humble Christian people from many countries; some men, some women, some lay, some clerical.

    It may not (to quote Churchill) be "the beginning of the end" of the disorders of this pontificate.

    Its effect will depend on you and thousands like you. Depending on how you, with God's grace, take it forward, it might be looked back upon in the future as (Churchill again) "the end of the beginning".

    It's up to you. And to our Lady of Fatima and Walsingham, who promised that her Immaculate Heart willprevail.
    Mary's child, AED and gracia like this.
  15. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Do you think that the small group of humble Christian people will serve Pope Francis with a correction? It doesn't have to be a Cardinal. Maybe they will hold up a gigantic banner saying "ANSWER THE DUBIA" or "ARE YOU CATHOLIC?" when he appears at the window for the Angelus.

    Is anyone running a book on what it might be and what odds are they giving?
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  16. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    I'm done speculating, back to work.
    Dolours and Carol55 like this.
  17. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Praetorian, Thank you. I am pretty certain that there have been updates since I posted the "clue". I suppose that you believe that the "emperor" that they mention is Pope Francis.


    This document makes the situation a little clearer for me I think.

    First, I am thankful for those who have taken the time to provide this theological critic of AL, something that most Catholics would be unable to do including myself. Second, I am assuming that what is stated in the document is correct and I have no reason to believe otherwise. They have clearly given Pope Francis the benefit of the doubt but if it is true that there is formal heresy in AL and if this was presented to the Pope and nothing has been done about it for over a year (?), I do understand what you have been saying.

    The following is a link to the contents of the Dubia which is different from the document, "The Apostolic Exhortation Amoris laetitia: a theological critique", that you have provided, http://www.catholicaction.org/interview_with_cardinal_burke_about_the_dubia . I think like many other Catholics, I have put my faith in Cardinal Burke and the other "Dubia Cardinals" but unfortunately we all have witnessed the confusion that has resulted from Pope Francis not answering the Dubia in a timely manner which in itself has created much doubt about the Pope.

    I pray that even more clarity will be provided to the Catholic community in the near future. Even more so, I pray that all of this confusion will finally be resolved.
  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

  19. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I suppose that Pope Francis could convene an ecumenical council to put the matter to rest. Trouble with that is that he has been elevating people to the episcopacy by the bucket load. If he is an anti-Pope, how could the council be valid if it is packed with bishops promoted by him? Couldn't it only be a valid council if all his appointees were excluded, otherwise it would be a sham council.

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