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Contemporary stigmatics

Discussion in 'The mystical and Paranormal' started by Peter B, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Am starting this thread as in my research it has become apparent to me that there are a number of contemporary stigmatics (outside the English-speaking world) whose alleged phenomena are publicly documented and who have been the subject of serious investigation on the part the Church and those involved in testing mystical phenomena. Some of these are relatively well-known and have already been discussed on this forum, such as Myrna Nazzour, Julia Kim/Youn and Luz de Maria Bonilla

    while others may be less familiar outside their own countries: hence this thread.

    Prima facie
    , it would seem logical that any supposed heavenly messages conveyed by alleged stigmatics need to be taken seriously unless there is clear evidence either of fraud or theological error. Naturally caution is indispensable here (I recently heard a talk by Polish exorcist Fr Piotr Glas in which he said that he had met a surprisingly large number of supposed stigmatics at a conference in Chicago about whom he had doubts), and where there are purported phenomena there will always be controversy, but until proven false, these classic combinations of message and confirmatory sign would seem difficult to ignore.

    The stigmatics in question concerning whom I will be posting video evidence and whose messages I hope to translate for the reader's discernment (as always) are as follows:

    Eduardo Ferreira (São José dos Pinhais, Brazil) to whom MOG forum member Pijon has referred on a number of occasions
    http://www.rosamisticarainhadapaz.com.br/siteoficial/

    Giulio Massa (Montecorvino Rovella, Italy)
    http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/
    The recent book In cammino con Giulio seguendo Gesù by Ivan Camponeschi analyzing the phenomena connected with Giulio Massa was prefaced by Archbishop Giuseppe Fiorini Morosini of Reggio Calabria, a preface that can be downloaded free of charge at
    http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Giulio_prefazione.pdf

    Marco Ferrari (Paratico, Italy), alleged apparitions since 1994, book of messages prefaced by René Laurentin
    http://mammadellamore.it/

    anonymous man: 'Lily among the thorns'/Giglio tra le spine (Italy) - actively followed by Fr Gabriele Amorth and Bishop Andrea Gemma
    http://www.veniteadme.org/messaggi-del-giglio-tra-le-spine-intervista-mons-gemma-e-padre-amorth/

    Although the 'Lily among the thorns' apparitions appear to have stopped for the meanwhile, the first three stigmatics above all claim to be receiving ongoing communications which would seem to confirm the 'international prophetic consensus' mentioned elsewhere on this forum.
     
    gracia, josephite, padraig and 4 others like this.
  2. Pray4peace

    Pray4peace Ave Maria


    Thank you for this information. I was wondering about this awhile back. I assumed that there must be some modern day stigmatics, but as I expected, my google search didn't come up with anything.
     
  3. miker

    miker Powers

    Thanks Peter. I will read with interest. I remember several years ago going to a Mass of Fr. Sudan, Croatian priest, who had the stigmata. I don't know what has become of him or if he still existences this.

    I also wonder, have you ever heard of non-Catholics who experience the stigmata?

    Thanks.
     
    gracia likes this.
  4. PotatoSack

    PotatoSack Powers

    I also would like to know what Peter thinks of Fr. Sudan from Croatia. I always thought he would play a part in end times. But some utube clips imply he might have gone off the rails a bit. but who knows who put together those clips. So I would love to hear what Peter thinks or has heard.
     
    DonnaS likes this.
  5. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    I'm not really trying to burst bubbles but stigmatist are usually victim souls. They have accepted the pains of our Lord Jesus for the saving of souls. I won't say all...but usually they are not prophets. They have their own part in the battle that has little to do with prophecy. Now every saint is different... so I am not saying they can't be prophets but usually stigmatic's fight in the spiritual realm. Even Padre Pio primary battle was purely spiritual and focused on Confession and Mass. Thats why all saints are different. Their common link is that they are having a spiritual battle on human terms. It is hard to explain but when nature or our worldly nature enters the spiritual at that level...the battle is way out of our understanding. That is why most stigmatist seem to be frauds. Now, that doesn't mean a great saint won't arrive... that is a public speaker with prophecy who has a stigmata. But if that truly happens... then God will be sending out his final warriors before something drastic happens. I am a believer in stigmatics but we have to consider the spiritual side of the phenomina. I am not puting down the post. It is interesting and we should be looking for our own personal benefit... but the spiritual ramification makes it very difficult to understand. From my studies, the true spiritual insights come after they have died and the true messages have been revealed.

    Just a little though from a fallen saint...who has had a bad spiritual week. Months of being a good Christian (saint) can all come crashing down with one act.

    Brother al
     
  6. PotatoSack

    PotatoSack Powers

    I am sorry Al and will pray for you. time to get up again, make reparation for your act and don't let it be a bad spiritual month! I think we have all been there ourselves...
     
    gracia, Beth B, Amazing Grace and 2 others like this.
  7. miker

    miker Powers

    Praying for you Bro. Al. But remember as you fall, your falling into the arms of your Savior. He knows you, loves you, and forgives you. Falling might have been the best part of your week. Peace :)
     
    Beth B, Mario and fallen saint like this.
  8. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Giulio Massa, Vision, February 25, 2016
    http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/giulio-massa-e-arcangelo-michele/


    The Archangel Michael took me and gave me the vision of what I am reporting - Montecorvino Rovella 25/02/2016:

    Now the doing of Satan was everywhere like a plague. Cries, screams everywhere; the sky was red and the clouds were like darkness. Beings were roaming across the land intent on torturing the peoples. They swiftly threw themselves upon sinners and beat them. Everything was lit up in a dazzling light. I saw balls of fire coming down from the sky, mixed up with the whirling crowd. Like red-hot irons these were burning the bodies of the sinners. Suddenly after all this chaos I realized that everything around me was sterile, I could feel no pulse of life, no rivers, no woods, no flowers, nothing, nothing. Only many people were gathered: someone was sitting and others walking with profound apathy. None of them were desperate; in them I sensed a peculiar state of mind, like a sort of regret, a regret for something not lost, but not attained, a nostalgia for God.

    Suddenly I saw a speck in the sky of a pale but fluorescent light.

    This speck started to descend, leaving behind it a trail of light, and gradually as it approached I was convinced that the speck and the trail melted into one another and became a single thing. This illuminated everything around it, for a great distance. I understood that this was a holy force. Out of this spot [of light] I heard a choir, as if of faint voices saying "We here are praying to the Lord that he might put an end to wickedness. We live in love, in universal unity. We live in the light that you call Paradise, filled with every perfection, and God reigns here in glory among the sweet songs of the Seraphim, while everywhere flowers are blooming and good fruit ripening. Here only the just and holy can dwell. Here is the source of winged thought and sublime ideas. The water that Man has never respected is pure where we are and we all emanate a silvery splendour that gives us wings.

    Here nobody grows tired and all enjoy the good things that have been created for the just. We are all happy and all enjoy in peace the life that the Divine Creator has given us and which, loving and respecting it, has rendered us eternal and divine"*


    ['divine' should be understood here in the sense of 'divinized' by God's grace, the process known by the Fathers of the Early Church as theosis. PB]
    Videos: http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/prefazione-vescovo-morosini-libro/ (images accompanying the text of Archbishop Giuseppe Fiorini Morosini's preface to the book In cammino con Giulio seguendo Gesù )
    http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/giuliomassastimmate/
    http://www.incamminocongiulio.it/video-venerdi-santo-di-passione-22-aprile-2011/


     
    Beth B and josephite like this.
  9. I read all messages of Eduardo Ferreira. There is a message that Jesus says the Bayside apparition is true. It really confused me. Until then I was thinking Eduardo was ok
     
  10. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Really?? Can you find the message in question? Bayside is definitely false.
     
  11. (05/09/2007) São José dos Pinhais/PR

    http://estigmasdecristo.zip.net/arch2007-09-09_2007-09-15.html

    "Meu filho amado, nesta tarde o meu Imaculado coração deseja derramar muitas graças sobre esta nação, de modo especial sobre os locais onde Eu verdadeiramente apareci.

    Filho meu, Eu a Rainha da Paz, anseio pela conversão de todos os meus filhos...

    O pecado tem afastado muitos de meus consagrados. O ciúme tem sido uma das armadilhas do demônio. Rezem, rezem!

    Para alguns é dado um só carisma. A outro é dado mais do que um, mas todos são em favor da humanidade.

    Há quem muito é dado, a esse será mais cobrado, por isso não tenha ciúme dos carismas dos outros.

    Meus pequenos filhos, não há mais tempo a perder com fofocas e julgamentos...deveis rezar e pedir perdão de seus pecados enquanto a tempo.

    Estes dias que se avizinham de vós, são urgentíssimos, por isso deveis estar atentos.

    O Brasil caminha para a destruição, e Eu como Mãe e Rainha desta nação, me vejo preocupada e angustiada com os perigos que se avizinha de vós.

    Não venho pedir muito de cada um, só peço que reze e voltem para os braços de Deus.

    Se não rezarem como vos peço, o Brasil se assemelhará a outros paises em destruição, como os Estados Unidos.

    Enquanto os Estados Unidos pensam em crescer em poder (matéria), esquecem em crescer na fé, e com isso vão se afastando do Senhor.

    Em Bayside já havia mencionado esta passagem a minha pequena Verônica. Muitos países tentam se assemelhar aos Estados Unidos, não sabendo que estão correndo o risco de perderem até a fé em Deus.

    Voltem para Deus enquanto há tempo meus filhos.

    Meu pequeno filho, não tema em falar estas minhas mensagens. Eu estou contigo!

    É preciso jogar a semente que são as minhas mensagens. Só assim elas darão bons frutos. Coragem!

    Brevemente uma pessoa muita querida pelo povo brasileiro sofrerá. Em vez de rezarem, eles chorarão esquecendo de pedir perdão a Deus, sabendo o que vos espera é bem pior. Rezai!

    Abençôo-vos em nome do Pai, do Filho e do Espírito Santo. Ficai em paz!"
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  12. I was talking to Pedro Regis last month and he said me that he thinks Eduardo is a false apparition. He even said that all apparitions with stigmata and Eucharist coming from heaven is probably false.

    But he thinks the apparitions of Piedade dos Gerais is false too and I disagree. We can not say that he has authority to judge anyone.

    in the Facebook of Eduardo Ferreira you can se fenomena like the Miracle of Sun occurring in the local of apparitions almost every month. It is a strange thing.
     
  13. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Prince,
    That is your best thought...he has no authority to say someone is false. He can say he doesn't believe and will pray for him. Even a catholic scholar would never say apparitions with stigmata and Eucharist coming from heaven is probably false. We really don't know the will of God. Regis is saying that he knows the will of God. I would understand if he stated some or many apparitions are false but using the word all sure is a sign to start walking away from Mr. Regis. People who have touched the spiritual understand that they really don't understand.

    They just accept Gods will.

    Brother al
     
  14. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    This is very strange... not least because a competent spiritual director probably ought to have 'caught' this message before publication; it is surprising that it is still on the website. What are the logical possibilities here?

    a) Eduardo Ferreira is simply a false prophet. This would seem far too simplistic an assessment on the basis of one message, given that the general tone of his messages if read over a long period is (unlike Bayside) completely orthodox theologically, and that his stigmata have been subject to scientific scrutiny.

    b) Bayside may have had some legitimate elements after all. This is is not absolutely impossible (an analogous case is the reference to Christina Gallagher in the messages to Verne Dagenais) but nonetheless remains highly problematic given the obvious falsehood of much of Veronika Leuken's material. Although it is frequent in prophetic literature to see one purported mystic's messages rehabilitate an apparition/mystic judged negatively by the Church (Edson Glauber with respect to Ghiaie di Bonate is a good example), these are normally cases in which question marks were already being raised by historians as to the evaluation procedure in the first place, not ones with patently false content.

    c) The message is a case of poorly discerned demonic interference with an otherwise true set of messages, interference with a double intention - i) to trap the visionary in question and/or ii) to use his credibility to direct readers towards a previous false apparition. There are some well-known examples of this type of scenario: the recently deceased visionary associated with Dozulé, Madeleine Aumont, was convinced on reflection that a small number of her apparitions were not of God, and even Catherine of Siena at one point had a false vision in which the Blessed Mother supposedly told her that she was not conceived immaculate. I can think of at least one visionary whom I strongly consider true who is absolutely convinced that it was revealed to her in a vision that only one quarter of the angels remained faithful to God - which I have a very hard time believing.

    I don't have an answer here (if you're reading this, Pijon, it would be interesting to have your opinion as someone who knows Eduardo Ferreira's material far better than I), but my inclination is towards c. Meaning that alleged messages need to be judged on a case by case basis - there can be no guarantees against error when it comes to private revelation.
     
  15. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    I agree that Pedro Regis - with all due respect to him - cannot be considered authoritative regarding someone else's private revelation (remember that even St Jean Vianney initially judged the visionaries of La Salette to be false!): he is simply expressing an opinion. I tend not to trust generalizations about mystical phenomena in any case: according to the logic above, the apparitions of Soufanieh - associated with stigmata - and Garabandal (miraculous Eucharists) would both be false. That would seem to be a highly superficial a priori assessment given the weight of documentation in favour of both.
     
  16. DonnaS

    DonnaS Guest

    Cathy,
    I thought the same...it's like he waxes his eyebrows and dyes his hair and wears posh suits now....reminds me of Fr Corapi turn around....can't wrap my head around the change
     
  17. I mentioned Garabandal to him and his answer was: "because of that (stigmata's, Eucharist coming from haven) the Church has not given credit for it".
     
  18. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    A very interesting academic study about Bayside from a sociological perspective has just been published by Oxford University Press, written by Joseph P. Laycock. I haven't yet read it, but glancing at a couple of reviews it looks like an important analysis. It seems that, like most academic researchers working in the field of the sociology of religion, the author's line is to look primarily at the behaviour of those involved, leaving aside questions of the authenticity or otherwise of the actual apparitions. The advantage of doing things this way is that at least it is possible to do proper scholarship from an historical viewpoint; the disadvantage is that it leaves the central question unanswered: if Bayside was completely false, how do we explain the phenomena that accompanied the events? Were the healings etc. genuine in the light of scientific testing? If we want to posit a preternatural (i.e. demonic) origin for everything, which is definitely possible, can that interpretation cover everything? Is it possible that the apparitions were authentic at first, then were hijacked later? Did Veronica Lueken simply lose her mind at some point? These are all complex issues facing researchers... and what makes things still more complicated is that the the diocesan inquiry, even if it came to the correct conclusion, was seriously flawed, as Laycock points out, with Veronica not even being interviewed.

    What is certain, however, is that, at least by the mid-1970s, V.L. said things which were utterly false (the most notorious being the idea that Pope Paul VI had been replaced by an impostor through plastic surgery!).
     
  19. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Amen!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
    padraig likes this.

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