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Consecration of Russia video

Discussion in 'The mystical and Paranormal' started by Arby, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Nonsense. There is no indication that John Paul II ever believed his consecration did not fulfill Our Lady's wishes. I have no doubt he was very disappointed that he was prevented from including the word 'Russia' in the Consecration if for no other reason than he would foresee the legalists saying what they say now! John Paul was no legalist and he will not have needed Sister Lucia's confirmation that the Consecration was done well.

    Those who continue to preach that the consecration was not done properly insult St John Paul, Sister Lucia, Our Lady and God Himself. They try to persuade us that the overnight fall of the Soviet communist empire, without violence, was somehow 'natural' or 'inevitable'. That it didn't need God to do that.
  2. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    I've never read anyone say or insinuate that David, you are going out on a limb with that one.
  3. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Fr. Gabriel Amorth on the Consecration of Russia
    Fr. Gabriel Amorth, Honorary President for Life of the International Association of Exorcists, is quite clear that the Consecration of Russia, as requested by Our Blessed Mother at Fatima, has never been done:

    “Sr. Lucy always said that Our Lady requested the Consecration of Russia, and only Russia...in a public ceremony by the Pope together with all the Catholic bishops of the world. This was specified in detail by Jesus because He wanted the consecration to be recognised as the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that she would be honoured together with His Sacred Heart...But time passed and the consecration was not done, so Our Lord was deeply offended...We can influence events. This is a fact! Take for instance what happened to the King of France, who did not comply with the order he received from Heaven, and ended up with his head cut off!

    Our Lord appeared to Sr. Lucy and told her: “They will do the consecration but it will be late!” I feel shivers running down my spine when I hear these words “it will be late!”. Our Lord goes on to say: The conversion of Russia will be a Triumph that will be recognised by the entire world.” That is why Our Lord wanted a solemn and public consecration to be done by the Pope together with ALL the bishops of the world. That event will change the course of history.

    Yes, in 1984 the Pope (Bl John Paul II) quite timidly attempted to consecrate Russia in St. Peter's Square. I was there just a few feet away from him because I was the organiser of the event...he attempted the consecration but all around him were some politicians who told him “you can't name Russia, you can't!” And he asked again: “Can I name it?” And they said: “No, no, no!”

    The prophecies of Fatima...let me tell you what I think about them, by quoting Pope Benedict XVI: “Whomever thinks the mission of Fatima is concluded deceives himself.” Look at the importance of these apparitions! Look at the damage and collapse we have experienced in the Church...Let me quote Pope Paul VI: “It was thought that after the Second Vatican Council we would have a renaissance of the Church, but instead it was a disaster! Within the Church, the smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican” It was a disaster, among the clergy, within the liturgy and among the faithful as well, who have lost faith and abandoned their religion by the millions.

    So the drama of Fatima continues, but the end is glorious. Our Lady said: “In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, Russia will be converted and a period of peace will be given to the world.”

    Before the finale, however, it is probable that mankind will suffer some kind of chastisement by God, due to their sins and cold hearts...but we're not facing the end of the world...we're going towards the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart.”

    The following is a presentation by Fr. Gabriel Amorth on how the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary has not been done! This fact is also stated by the Blessed Mother in Her messages given to Fr. Gobbi of the Marian Movement of Priests:

    1. In Message #287d, March 25, 1984, she says, “...particular circumstances have not yet permitted the explicit consecration of Russia which I have requested many times. As I have already told you, this consecration will be made to me when the bloody events are well on the way to actuality. I bless this courageous act of my Pope in his wish to entrust the world and all the nations to my Immaculate Heart; I receive it with love and gratitude, and because of it I promise to intervene to shorten greatly the hours of the purification and to lessen the gravity of the trial.” 2. Also in message #351e, May 13, 1987 she says, “My request that Russia be consecrated to me, by the Pope together with all the bishops, has not been accepted, and thus she has spread her errors in every part of the world.” 3. And finally in message #425c, May 13,1990, Our Lady says, “Russia has not been consecrated to me by the Pope together with all the bishops, and thus she has not received the grace of conversion and has spread her errors throughout all parts of the world, provoking wars, violence, bloody revolutions and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.”
    SgCatholic likes this.
  4. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

  5. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    The witness and arranger of that 1984 consecration, Fr. Amorth, gives the evidence that Pope JPII was extremely aware of the pivotal part of the Fatima order from heaven....."in order to prevent THIS I will come to request the Consecration of RUSSIA! The THIS was the continuation of the spread of the effects of Russian Communism throughout the world....or, as JPII stated about its now evolvement, atheistic materialism, which has continued to spread everywhere in the world (esp. in formerly Catholic/Christian countries); and in those countries attempting to preserve the Catholic tradition and faith, we now have martyrdom at its peak; Russia was/is the instrument from the beginning. Even Chinese Communism was only a tweaking of Marxism in order to fit its culture. And these places now are in a race to overcome the whole world with this diabolical infestation of replacing God with materialism controlled through power and systems of population control et al. Rather than the opinions of those who believe that JPII's consecration was planned by him to be carried out just as it was, in actuality he recognized what he must do in order to stop this further infestation, especially within the Church, since he almost begged or pleaded to those "politicians" (as they were called by Fr. Amorth) surrounding him at the time of the consecration attempt....3 times: "can I say the name?". Because of the continuing "deal" with the Orthodox Church in order to get its participation in the 2nd Vat. Council, Rome had promised not to in any way publicly single out Russia and its system, esp. related to the Church, with any negative implication. The result was that the well understood formula for that Consecration by this Pope was left unfulfilled. So, heaven "accepted" the "attempt". Yet this turned out to be nothing more in effect than the 1982 Consecration which Lucy had, once again, like all the other prior attempts by prior Popes, with their own individual type of "acceptance" by heaven, knew as accepted but unfulfilled. Many times she had said, prior to the takeover by Vatican authorities of her ordered public statements, that our Lady NEVER asked for the consecration of the world. And she said that it must include Russia because in these times the Father wanted the world to see that it, through the conversion of Russia, would be saved only through the intercession and power given to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for that conversion. That conversion would be the great sign that what she needed at Fatima for a time of peace had been granted by the Father. By saying that this repeated basic type of consecration of the world in some manner without the explicit mention of Russia, as had been tried before with the obvious need to continue the attempts over and over, has satisfied the Father negates the very reason for His intervening in the world through His Mother in Fatima with this direct emphasis on the Red Dragon/Russian Marxist Communism. And it even involves Revelation itself and that "Woman Clothed with the Sun"!

    The world, in various ways, has been consecrated over and over again....be it by nation or state or city or region. If this is all that was necessary the world would already be blanketed by various types of consecrations in union with Rome by the bishops here and there. But this ordered one's purpose was to point out the mechanism of world takeover to watch for into the future..."BUT....in order to prevent THIS"....God was giving the formula to prevent what was warned about coming out of Russia specifically that we now witness coming to its own culmination....even AFTER the year of 1984. If this consecration was to come "late" in this timeline of predicted world catastrophes, esp. for the Church, then, unless one is delusional, the current time looks to be far "later" than the 1980s. If 1984 stands for anything, its' certainly not any point at which one could say, because of anything done in that year, things have been seen as improving.....just the opposite in the long run. Even the chance for nuclear war has grown far beyond the prevention of any "smaller" one that could have been the fruit granted in 1985. That grace granted in 1985 did not provide for the period of peace so necessary for the salvation of souls desired for the New Era. It obviously did not suffice for the continuation of the greater loss of souls that could have "been prevented". We will now have an extremely shortened period when the Consecration is somehow finally done for the preparation of souls for the Warning and the coming chastisement for the purification and entry into the New Era of the Divine Will.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  6. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Reproduction of the March 26-27, 1984 issue of L’Osservatore Romano , with the key words, enlarged, of Pope John PaulII’s words. The highlighted words are translated in the caption below. Opponents of the Consecration of Russia have,conveniently, from 1984 until this day, omitted to report that the Pope actually said, in effect, that he had not done the Consecration of Russia as requested by Our Lady of Fatima. http://www.fatima.org/pdf/losservatore/article_3.pdf
    On December 8, 1983, Pope John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world, inviting them to join in with him on March 25, 1984, in consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He included with his letter his prepared text of consecration. On March 25, 1984, the Pope, making the consecration before the statue of Our Lady of Fatima departed from his prepared text to add the words highlighted above and translated below. As you can see they were reported in L’Osservatore Romano . The words he added at this point indicate clearly, that the Pope knew then that the consecration of the world done that day did not fulfill the requests of Our Lady of Fatima. After performing the consecration of the world proper, a few paragraphs earlier, the Pope added the highlighted words which translate: “Enlighten especially the peoplesof which You await our consecration and confiding.” This publicly and clearly shows he knew Our Lady after that ceremony was still awaiting the Pope and bishops to consecrate certain peoples to Her, that is the peoples of Russia.
  7. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    If he wasn't a "legalist" as you put it, then why hadn't he all along simply planned for this particular type and wording of the consecration that, in the end, was performed? Why did he ask permission of "worldly" authorities for their rubber stamping of those specified words he greatly desired to state personally at the time? What he did by this though was to intimate that there was more to a proper Consecration according to the request of Our Lady of Fatima than he was able personally to accomplish. IOW, he cared greatly about doing it properly as was witnessed in his state of mind at the time, but human pressure won out....again. And no one judges since no one can know the personal anguish or conscience of the moment within human personality.

    With so many pronouncements for decades made by Sr. Lucia, before the Vatican showed any urgency to just put something out there that would stop the speculation and relegate Fatima to the past as did the Bertone control of Lucia, it is rather impudent to accuse those who respect her struggle and the many opposing statements that came later that negated her long term pleadings for the proper consecration, as somehow "insulting" her....or Pope JPII who showed his own mindful awareness that this consecration had never been completed and that he must try again. Since obedience to God first and foremost before the now recognized failed hierarchy of the organizational Church is what is always required, one can remain in peace when seeking the reason why He continued to desire repeated consecrations throughout this century of years....so that all of THIS could have been prevented. One then joins with His own Divine Will which is that "no one is lost". I want the conversion of Russia....THE SIGN for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. And since this must happen still, this same emphasis on Russia by name, as a sign to the world for its own conversion, continues in those places, such as Medjugorje, that are called the CONTINUATION of Fatima. It's not a done deal and still awaits the "fulfillment", not "acceptance" of another attempt. I believe that it will now have to come through some extraordinary means, through an extended major intercession of the Blessed Mother, through her continuing appearances at other major places in order for it to even happen "late" now!
    SgCatholic likes this.
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I think you need to read the history of the apparitions a little more closely EtoA! This is what Our Lady told Lucia:

    If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be annihilated.
    Lucia was told this in 1917, at the beginning of the Bolshevik revolution! Our Lady was saying that the horrors that had barely begun would increase and spread throughout the world if Her requests were not heeded. They were not, and the rest is history.

    Eventually, St John Paul carried out the Consecration as requested and again, as history records, the miraculous collapse of the Soviet Union and Russia's gradual return to Christian belief began.
  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    St John Paul took note of his cardinal and bishop advisers in the Vatican because he was a humble man who knew that the removal of the word Russia would not change the intention and purpose of the Consecration. Only a legalist type of thinking does not recognise this.
  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    More revisionist history from davidtlig. St. John Paul II would have been scorned by Pope Francis today for all his "legalism"especially his encyclical on the family that was 180 degree's from what Pope Francis (or his ghost writers) wrote in AL on the impossibility for the divorced and remarried living in adultery to receive communion, while Francis intentionally left it ambiguous so his minions could do as they like. St. Pope John Paul's Catholic Catechism, when speaking on the grave sin of homosexuality, is today being discussed within the popes highest offices to being modified to the current trend to normalize the act of Sodomy. Nice try davidtlig, but you will have to find a more ignorant forum to buy into your thinking on this subject.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Not according to his closest friends in the Vatican and especially the one who set up the consecration and was there on that at his side. You need read the posts above with his close friend Father Amorth.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  12. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    In bold is exactly what is and has been happening to the Church since 1917 and on supper hydro since 1984. 1990 Rwanda massacre of 1 million Catholics in 90 day's comes to mind. The Churches are practically emptied in France and other parts of Europe and in America. The communistic errors are everywhere in the world now and the great apostasy is in full view as pure evidence. Father Malachi Martin was right. Communism never left the leaders of Russia, only their strategy changed and they have many fooled to this day.​
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    Verne dagenais likes this.
  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Fr Amorth was a good man and one whom I respect very much but he was mistaken in believing that John Paul's Consecration did not fulfill Our Lady's wishes. I think he misunderstood the extent that Our Lady and God Himself look 'behind' our actions and search for our intentions and where our hearts lie.

    I have no doubt at all that had he lived long enough to learn reliably that Sister Lucia believed the Consecration fulfilled Our Lady's wishes, he would have accepted this without demurring.
    josephite likes this.
  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I can't keep up with all the replies....

    The message to Sister Lucia in 1917 was about Russia and what would happen if her requests were not heeded. They weren't heeded and Russia spread communism around the word. The subsequent wars and apostasy of the west are not directly relevant to the 1917 message.
  15. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Your mistaken interpretation of everything related to Pope Francis stems from failing to recognize that the two popes, while being very different personalities, have the same faith and love of Jesus and His Church. One day, you will learn the truth of this.
  16. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    I said "in order to prevent this I shall come to request the consecration of Russia". That is the whole ball of wax in summation for all the rest. You are saying then by your personal critique of myself that that was never ordered in the "history of the apparitions"?

    St John Paul took note of his cardinal and bishop advisers in the Vatican because he was a humble man who knew that the removal of the word Russia would not change the intention and purpose of the Consecration. Only a legalist type of thinking does not recognise this.

    Wow! Now you have put forward to us that you also have the gift of reading the minds of Popes. Where the humility was lacking as well as the apparent lack of a basic understanding of Fatima itself was in the hearts of whomever JPII requested advice at that moment of moments rather than follow his heart....his surrounding "politicians"! This "collegial" regard of other members of the hierarchy is a result of VAT II. It is only the Pope who remains the designated one who can "wield the Key"! Accepting that order of things is humility before God Who designed it that way. It was only the Pope who had the responsibility of creating the Consecration as requested. It rested upon his shoulders.....and upon all of his predecessors who attempted the same thing incompletely as well.

    Russian Communism was formalized as the main instrument for the spread of "THIS" in the month following the month of the last main series of Fatima apparitions. The Soviet Union was not Russia from whence came the continuing atheistic materialism of Communism....still the system there and still the method for Putin's own desire for recreating greater Russia. "When Communism comes again"! That must make those who got out of it previously rather nervous!
  17. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    Well that would logically conclude that Russia must be converted as was stated by Our Lady of Fatima in order for her period of peace to arrive....with her given formula for accomplishing that. Russia by name has to be Consecrated. Atheistic materialism or Communism is what has indeed spread throughout the entire world....to one degree or another. It forces God out of the picture. And it seems that totalitarianism that results from Communist systems is also spreading more and more.

    From "The Devil in History": (the similarities between Communism and Fascism)

    Two 20th-century ideologies promised a utopian vision that would ensure infinite happiness. They both stemmed from a political, social, and cultural construct that erased traditional ideas regarding good and evil. Both believed in the destruction of the old world, to build a new international order; each deplored what they saw as the pathetic ennui of bourgeoisie existence; each ideology’s shared purpose was to recruit members of the new utopia.

    I would say that the now expected and oft mentioned use of NWO or "Globalists" is a witness or sign of a pretty well accomplished goal of this tool of Satan or Red Dragon. This major accomplishment certainly has moved on and beyond 1984 or the breakdown of the outward structure of the Soviet Union. Russia remains unconverted which involves admission of and repentance for this massive responsibility. That is why, with such a future conversion, the whole world can be converted.
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I'm rapidly losing the will to live on this topic..... :)

    I'll call it a day for the time being but all I'm really trying to do is to get people to accept Sister Lucia's words as relayed by Dr Zugibe:

    Sr. Lucia looked both me and my wife right in the eye, and she said, "It was done! The Holy Father willed it. It was done, and you can tell your friends that it was done."

    josephite likes this.
  19. Verne dagenais

    Verne dagenais Principalities

    Plus, it is obvious our world needs help. Why not try an explicit consecration of Russia. It has been 33 years since 1984 and there has not been an era of peace. We
    Continually repeat certain prayers many times. It will take humility for the Pope and the bishops of the world to do this consecration now. My thought is our nation has been consecrated to the immaculate conception more than once. This same principle can be applied to the consecration of Russia. There is no harm in doing it again, whatever your opinion on the subject is. But by not doing it great harm may come on the entire human race. Plus Cardinal Burke has spoke twice about this
    in the last several months. It is always wise to listen to a holy man.
    sterph, SgCatholic and Fatima like this.
  20. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I know this much about the two popes, one, Pope John Paul II was very clear in his teachings and very "legalistic" in keeping and clearly defining the unchanging truths of the Catholic faith and one, Pope Francis, removing all the orthodox hierarchy that both orthodox popes, John Paul and Benedict, put in place to keep the Church from the errors that have crept in during the reign of Pope Francis and writings and conversations on his plane trips that are at odds with church teachings, causing the greatest confusion the church has seen in centuries.

    You would never have seen Pope John Paul or Pope Benedict bring these horrible characters into the Vatican who support enthusiastically abortion, euthanasia, contraception, global warming, population reductionists, pro-sodomy, as Pope Francis has done and is doing again in November. You would never have seen these good and holy popes entertaining and celebrating the 500th year anniversary of of the worst event in church history, the protestant revolution. One can go on and on about his heterodox agenda, but why bother.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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