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Coming schism in the Church?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Phillip, May 23, 2013.

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  1. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    It seems to me, as a newcomer to Catholic prophecies, that a common theme in many recent messages is that we are close to experiencing a major schism in the Church. I was wondering what you more experienced and knowledgable members of the board think. Is this schism prediction widespread? Is it something new? Do you believe it is imminent? If so, how do you think it could come about?
     
  2. RoryRory

    RoryRory Perseverance

    I too am interested in what others think.It certainly looks that way as many Catholics and Orders of Sisters etc. are not true believers in the magisterium sp. it seems. It is hard to discuss with other Catholics. They all have their own beliefs.
    Many are also into New Age and still go to Mass on Sundays and call themselves Catholic.
     
    Drkis2 likes this.
  3. There is only ONE great Apostacy in the Bible. I believe we are in it and its long suffering. Others believe it will happen within a very short period of time. Thats the difference.
     
    Drkis2 likes this.
  4. Mac

    Mac Guest

    Members of the traditional SSPX probably think they are living in the foretold schism.
    Taditional vs modernism is one possibility .
    Personally I think something bigger and more clear is still to come. What it could be I dont know.But I do know where it will start, we have already been told 'THE ROT WILL START AT THE TOP'



    We also know that Cardinal Ciappi, the personal theologian to all the Popes since Vatican II, said, "In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top."
     
  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The great Schism is widely foretold notably by St John Bosco. It is a prelude to the Persecution of the Church in a way that has not been seen since the catacombs. Here is a listing of Prophecy and Scripture.

    http://www.marienfried.com/catholic teachings/prophecy of apostasy.html

    How will we identify those who who constitute the false Church?

    I think i n many respects it will mirror the so called 'Reformation but attract the large majority of Catholics and in this sense be far, far more successful than Luther et al.

    It will also mirror the Reformation in many of its beliefs, such as doing away with devotion to Mary, belief in the mass/ blessed sacrament, the Chair of Pater, Devotion to the saints.

    In a sense as Marti points out this schism is already taking place, it just has to come out into the open. For instance by far the majority of Catholics in the West no longer go to mass or believe in teachings on Contraception of Abortion and pretty well make their own minds up about all the Teachings of the Church.

    But I believe this new Reformation will be different from the original in that it will involve religious syncretism, I believe it will also involve the use of the star {the symbol of Satan) as its major symbol.

    Most, 'Catholics' in the West are already more than half way there. Its just a matter of pushing it out into the open. I heard three devout Catholic grandmothers talking a couple of years ago and was amazed how far their thinking was out of line with the Churches on many subjects. Not only out of line but they were quite happy and comfortable with being out of line. I told them they were all Protestants , which caused them to step back a little, but they just laughed at me. But it's true, they were all, effectively, Protestant.

    http://fanaticforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/putting-new-face-to-faith-religious.html

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Mac

    Mac Guest

    Great link Padraig.

    St. John Bosco (19th century)
    [​IMG]
    “There will be an Ecumenical Council in the next century, after which there will be chaos in the Church.” [1862 Prediction]










    This must refer to Vatican II. Which is in my opinion why the 3rd secret was meant to be revealed in 1960.
     
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Guest

    Servant of God, Father John Hardon SJ, said back in the 80's the Church is already in schism defacto. So in reality we have been in it for decades, but if you want to be more specific in visible terms, it will happen visibly when Pope Francis will make a universal statements in regards to not being able to receive Holy Eucharist IF you support abortion, sterelization, contraception, divorce and remarriage, euthaniasia, cloning etc.... I don't think it will be long.
     
    Beth B likes this.
  8. FoundSoul

    FoundSoul Angels

    About the Marianfried Traditional Ctholic Church link about. Are the people who believe what is put up there also believe that all the Popes since Vatican II have been anti-popes and that no sacrament since then has been valid, unless it has been administered by people like themselves?

    Prophesy really confuses me - if the above is right - who do they believe is the true Pope, or do we not have one. I think this is really strange.

    Fatima, I wish Pope Francis WOULD say SOMETHING along those lines - and quickly - they we will at least know where we all stand - we will have to choose, once and for all with no more trying to please everybody. Gods law is God's law - we either follow it or not and there will be no more of the rubbish that by voting against it we are being Christian or, by voting to keep it, we are somehow not be Christian.

    I wonder what will happen though when that choice is made - will the people who believe in the Traditional Catholic Church see the people who stand with Pope Francis as being the remnant too or are we still apostates.

    I try not to think about this to be honest...I made my mind up to follow the Pope, just to give my head peace.
     
  9. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    I appreciate the link to Marienfried but as FoundSoul pointed out the supporters of that site are themselves in schism from the Church (in my opinion). The page states "Doctrinally, we know for a certainty that the current usurpers in Rome cannot possibly be Catholic, and therefore they cannot be the leaders of a Church of which they are not members. They may be in possession of the buildings once belonging to the Catholic Church, but they are not in possession of the Catholic Faith." If Francis is a validly elected Pope (which I believe he is) then the Marienfried people have rejected the legitimate authority of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.
     
  10. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    The primary purpose of apostolic succession, and the succession to the throne of Peter in particular, is so that there exists a visible Church that the faithful can identify and cling to amid the heresies and false prophets of the world. It is not just a question of identifying who has the true doctrine - that's exactly the Protestant approach to the church. We don't figure out the true doctrine of Christianity and then look around to find a church that matches what we believe. We look for the church that possesses the apostolic succession, especially that of Peter, and then let that church teach us the doctrine of Christ.
     
  11. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book IV:

    "He shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, destroy it, men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. For no reformation of so great importance can be effected by them as will compensate for the mischief arising from their schism"
     
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes the site may be heretical , but the links to prophecy still be legit.

    Its a question of not throwing the baby out with the bath water.:)

    Heretics may, for example quote scripture, this does not invalid Scripture itself. Keep what is good , dump the bad.

    I always assume people will use discernment and do this as a matter of course....

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    True. The quotes from various saints were helpful.

    I guess I just especially sensitive to claims that the Church is apostate, since I come from a sect that bases it's entire foundation on a Great Apostasy (except they claimed it occurred in the 1st and 2nd centuries rather than the 20th!). If the bishop of Rome can lead the entire Church into apostasy then I chose the wrong faith.
     
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It is funny Phillip. My father was very much for the Tridentine mass and we used to have it in our house every Sunday. This is back in the days when it was very much frowned on, before Pope Benedict kind of rehabilitated it (funny to talk of a Liturgy that goes back to the Council of Trent being, 'rehabilitated', but there you are).

    Anyhow my father toyed with some Traditionalist circles that were very close to being heretical Traditionalist (including Lefevists). I think the only thing that saved him was me accusing him of being a Protestant which gave him the horrors and made him stop.:D:D

    But one thing I noticed about Traditionalist sources of all sorts they always used prophesy and used it very widely. I respect them for this,sadly you do not get it in mainstream Catholicism so much. In Liberal circles you do not get it at all..you may have noticed.

    So anyway I guess I learnt to throw out the bath water that was dirty and to keep the interesting babies from an early age and kind of assumed everyone else does the same.
     
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It's worth mentioning that Padre Pio refused to say the Novus Ordo mass and continued to say the Tridentine Mass until the day of his death. He had a special dispensation from the Vatican itself to do.
    Some folks say it was because he could not handle the change since he was an old man.


    I do not think so. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. Look at him say the mass and judge for yourselves.



     
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  16. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    I haven't had the opportunity to attend a Tridentine Mass yet.

    I remember reading somewhere that JRR Tolkien was also pretty upset with the Novus Ordo Mass and would continue to say the responses in Latin.
     
  17. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    The one change that I appreciate in the Liturgy is the possibility of communion under both kinds. It may seem strange, but the witholding of the chalice from the laity was a real stumbling block for me in converting to Catholicism (and a real selling point for Eastern Orthodoxy).
     
  18. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Jesus said, 'Eat my body, drink my blood'

    He meant it. So I agree on this.

    I also think we may have made an error as giving the Body in a form of a wafer.

    The Eastern Rite is wiser in this respect too.

    They have much, very much to teach us.
     
  19. Phillip

    Phillip Angels

    TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT

    Well, I didn't want to strain out a gnat (communion under one kind) and swallow a camel (not submitting to the authority of the bishop of Rome), so I was baptized into the Catholic Church :rolleyes:
     
    Beth B likes this.
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well you did right.

    It is the One, True Church founded by Jesus.


    There isn't any other.
     
    Beth B likes this.
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