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Change in "Our Father"...

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Elisa, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    In the Flemish and Dutch countries in Europe (i.e. The Netherlands and Flemish Belgium) the Church hierarchy in those countries want to change the prayer "Our Father". And today it is a fact... the change is made. The sentance: "lead us not into temptation" is now: "lead us not into trial". This is not correct (also according some priests) and for me this comes from the devil... because we should not be delivered from a trial (that makes us grow in faith and virtues) but only from tentation.... because immediately after the "lead us not into temptation", we pray "but deliver us from evil", and a "trial" is no evil of which we should be delivred.

    Is this change in "Our Father" also announced in the churches of your countries ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
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  2. Light

    Light Angels

    Elisa

    I think the translation of "lead us not into temptation" has been considered by some to be an inaccurate translation because god does not lead us into temptation.

    However I agree lead us not into the trial is adequate for the precise reason you give.

    God Bless
     
    Seagrace likes this.
  3. sparrow

    sparrow Principalities

    From drbo.org - Lead us not into temptation: That is, suffer us not to be overcome by temptation.
    You can see the description page here.
    In Canada, we have no change in the Our Father, at least not yet!
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  4. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    Yes that change was done and was correct, but now "they" want to change the word "temptation" into "trial" and that is not correct. A petition against this is launched here... there we go... on the way to schism ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
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  5. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    Perhaps I should be clearer (but I am in office at work, creating this thread at the same time, not very wise...). The prayer was changed correctly into something like this (I translate directly from the French language): "Do not permit that we fall into temptation". But now it will be: "Do not permit that we fall into trial, but deliver us from evil". But a trial is not evil. Temptation is evil and therefore we ask to be delivered from this evil (temptation). But we cannot ask to be delivered from a trial which is from God and is good for our spiritual growth. Am I more clearer now ? :unsure:
     
  6. sparrow

    sparrow Principalities

    Why should some want to change the way the Our Father has been in the Church for centuries? That is the way Christ gave it to us in scripture? Wait - we all know why... :(
     
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  7. MMM

    MMM Angels

    It think the meaning is don't let us yield to temptation but deliver us from evil. (if and when we do) Pretty sure the word temptation is the correct word Jesus used.
     
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  8. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Elisa, I have seen alternatives around. Below is an article from US Catholic magazine:

    http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2012/01/glad-you-asked-would-god-lead-us-temptation

    Part of that article:

    The final test, the time of trial: This petition is asking for strength to face God’s judgment of the world at the end of time. Like the whole prayer, though, it has a present-time dimension as well. Just as to ask for the coming of God’s kingdom is to hasten its arrival now, to pray for courage at the end of the world is to ask for it in this moment.

    And in the New Jerome Biblical Commentary, when discussing the "lead us not into..." petition, on p.645 it is written:

    lead us not: This probably means "do not let us succumb to the end-time trial" or "do not let us fall when we are tempted."

    So, though the Church has upheld the traditional use of "temptation", perhaps there is an eschatological sense to the verse?


    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
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  9. sparrow

    sparrow Principalities

    Yes, and therefore should not be changed. :cautious:
     
  10. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Do they think that changing the Lord's Prayer is the solution to the dire state of the faith in those countries? Are they wired to the moon? Perhaps simply adding "Beam me up, Jesus" would fit better with their version Catholicism.
     
    Carol55, Clare A, Elisa and 1 other person like this.
  11. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    Ah yes, the spirit of vatican 2 is starting to raise its ugly head again.
     
    Elisa likes this.
  12. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    Exactly.
     
    sparrow likes this.
  13. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    It is abominable... God has to lead us into trial, because He underwent the trial also angels.
    But we pray in Our Father (in other words) for His guard from temptations, for His Power to resist temptation.

    The satanic spirit of this abominable sentence is, that God leads us into temptations because of trial.
     
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  14. Ed Kleese

    Ed Kleese Servant

    Dear Picadillo,

    The Spirit of Vatican II is the Holy Spirit. It was always implementation that caused the issues for us. Implementation takes what the Spirit gave the Church and puts it into action. It is the human part and subject to our frailty. Eventually God, through Christ and Mary, gets us back, through that same Holy Spirit, to where He has been all along.

    Peace,
    Ed
     
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  15. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    The devil is even touching Our Sacred Prayer n° 1.
    They say the changed prayer now on flemish radio Ave Maria (although very catholic)....
    This will also create division between the faithful.
     
    LittleVoice likes this.
  16. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Our Lords prayer should never be changed!

    But sometimes in these confusing times I try to look at it all with a teaspoon of a childs reasoning! that is........God sees the heart of all people!

    If a person is born deaf and mute, they never really understand the intricacies of spoken language but they understand what meaning is behind words! and again many devout Catholics who reach their 80s or 90s and get some form of dementia can't remember words nor articulate what they want to say.

    But does this mean they love Our Lord any less?
    I don't think so.

    It just means that they can no longer express in words the Love they have for God!
    But God looks at the heart and their love is written in their hearts!

    So even if the devil thinks he has got some victory in this change he can't make our hearts change!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  17. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

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  18. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

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  19. Mario

    Mario Powers

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  20. Elisa

    Elisa Archangels

    In meantime.... many people refuse to pray the new version. ;)
    A mother with a child having the syndrom of Down, just told me that she put a lot of time in teaching her child the (correct) Our Father prayer. She is very angry because of this change because it would confuse her child.
     

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