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Cardinal Burke: we will make ‘formal act of correction’ if Pope doesn’t issue Amoris clarification

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...if-the-pope-doesnt-make-amoris-clarification/

    Cardinal Burke: we will make ‘formal act of correction’ if Pope doesn’t issue Amoris clarification
    Dan Hitchens•Wednesday, 16 Nov 2016
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Raymond Burke, left, stands by Pope Francis saluting bishops, at the end of a general audience in St. Peter's Square (AP)
    The cardinal said there was a tradition of issuing a formal correction if a Pope is in error

    Cardinal Raymond Burke has said it may be necessary to make a “formal act of correction” if Pope Francis doesn’t answer a letter from four cardinals asking him to clarify aspects of Amoris Laetitia.

    In an interview with Edward Pentin of National Catholic Register, Cardinal Burke said that if the Pope were to teach error or heresy, “It is the duty in such cases, and historically it has happened, of cardinals and bishops to make clear that the Pope is teaching error and to ask him to correct it.”

    Cardinal Burke is one of four cardinals who have written to the Pope asking for a clarification of Amoris Laetitia. They say that the document could be read as contradicting Church teaching on the moral law and on the question of Communion for the remarried. The Pope has declined to reply to the letter.

    Asked what would happen if the Pope remained silent, Cardinal Burke replied: “Then we would have to address that situation. There is, in the tradition of the Church, the practice of correction of the Roman Pontiff. It is something that is clearly quite rare. But if there is no response to these questions, then I would say that it would be a question of taking a formal act of correction of a serious error.”

    Such an act of formal correction would be extremely unusual. One example is the challenge to Pope John XXII in the 1330s. He had publicly taught – though only as his personal opinion – that souls in heaven would not actually see God until the Final Judgment, a teaching contrary to Church doctrine.

    In response, several theologians challenged Pope John. A few were punished, but the Pope backed down after a joint letter by theologians from the University of Paris, under the leadership of Paludanus, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. The letter professed total obedience to John, but affirmed that the teachings being attributed to him were contrary to the Catholic faith. Before his death John withdrew his heretical opinion.

    Cardinal Burke’s suggestion of a “formal correction” comes after a debate over whether the remarried can receive Communion while in a sexually active relationship outside marriage. The Church has taught that this is contrary to the dogma of the indissolubility of marriage.

    In his apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, the Pope made no direct reference to the question, but some bishops have interpreted his words as meaning that some remarried people can receive Communion, even if they are still in a sexual relationship. This is the interpretation of the Buenos Aires bishops, which the Pope has appeared to privately favour.

    In a probable allusion to the Buenos Aires bishops, Cardinal Burke said: “Even diocesan directives are confused and in error.” He added that there was ”tremendous division” in the Church over Communion and other related points, concerning the moral law and marriage.

    He said the four cardinals had intervened “because so many people are saying: ‘We’re confused, and we don’t understand why the cardinals or someone in authority doesn’t speak up and help us.’”

    Read the full interview here.
     
  2. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    http://www.onepeterfive.com/cardinal-burke-prepared-for-formal-act-of-correction-of-pope-francis/

    Cardinal Burke Prepared for “Formal Act of Correction” of Pope Francis
    Steve Skojec November 16, 2016 0 Comments
    [​IMG]


    Excerpt:

    Do you see this? It means that your concerns are being heard. I think the comment I’ve heard most often since all of this began is this: “Where are the Cardinals and bishops? Why are they not defending the faithful? Why are they not challenging this?” Well, now they are.

    And here’s where the rubber meets the road:

    What happens if the Holy Father does not respond to your act of justice and charity and fails to give the clarification of the Church’s teaching that you hope to achieve?

    Then we would have to address that situation. There is, in the Tradition of the Church, the practice of correction of the Roman Pontiff. It is something that is clearly quite rare. But if there is no response to these questions, then I would say that it would be a question of taking a formal act of correction of a serious error. [emphasis added]

    This is it, folks. The beginning of the big push. Cardinal Burke does not say how many prelates back them but have not signed the document. That said, he also contends that it doesn’t matter that they are only a few:

    Some might argue that you are only four cardinals, among whom you’re the only one who is not retired, and this is not very representative of the entire Church. In that case, they might ask: Why should the Pope listen and respond to you?

    Well, numbers aren’t the issue. The issue is the truth. In the trial of St. Thomas More, someone told him that most of the English bishops had accepted the king’s order, but he said that may be true, but the saints in heaven did not accept it. That’s the point here. I would think that even though other cardinals did not sign this, they would share the same concern. But that doesn’t bother me. Even if we were one, two or three, if it’s a question of something that’s true and is essential to the salvation of souls, then it needs to be said.

    Amen to that. Pray for these men. They are up against forces beyond our imagining. Our Lord and Our Lady are on their side, but we need to be, too.
     
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  3. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...arify-his-serious-error-cardinals-must-make-a

    BREAKING: Cardinal Burke says if Pope won’t clarify ‘serious error’, Cardinals must make ‘formal act of correction’
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Burke at 2016 Rome Life Forum Steve Jalsevac/LifeSite
    ROME, November 15, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – After joining a group of four cardinals in releasing a call for Pope Francis to clarify grave errors in his apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, Cardinal Raymond Burke has now indicated the cardinals are contemplating a “formal correction” should the pope fail to address their concerns.

    The cardinals had written to the pope with their concerns on September 19, but after failing to receive a response for nearly two months, they released the letter publicly on Monday morning.

    Now, in an interview with the National Catholic Register’s Ed Pentin, Burke discusses the next steps should the pope fail to address the cardinals’ concerns. Here is Pentin’s question and the cardinal’s response:

    What happens if the Holy Father does not respond to your act of justice and charity and fails to give the clarification of the Church’s teaching that you hope to achieve?

    Then we would have to address that situation. There is, in the Tradition of the Church, the practice of correction of the Roman Pontiff. It is something that is clearly quite rare. But if there is no response to these questions, then I would say that it would be a question of taking a formal act of correction of a serious error.

    Burke goes on to insist that in a case of conflict between the pope and Church Tradition, the Tradition is binding. “Ecclesial authority exists only in service of the Tradition,” Burke explains. “I think of that passage of St. Paul in the [Letter to the] Galatians (1:8), that if ‘even an angel should preach unto you any Gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.’”

    IMPORTANT: To respectfully express your support for the cardinals' letter, sign the petition to Pope Francis. Click here.

    Historically, in the rare cases where popes have taught heresy, Burke explains, “It is the duty…, and historically it has happened, of cardinals and bishops to make clear that the Pope is teaching error and to ask him to correct it.”

    The September 19 letter, signed by Cardinals Walter Brandmüller, Raymond Burke, Carlo Caffarra, and Joachim Meisner, asked the pope 5 short questions which call for ‘yes or no’ answers that would immediately clarify the meaning of the confusion-plagued document on precisely those points where theologians, priests and even bishops have offered contradicting interpretations.

    In the interview, Burke emphasizes that the cardinals have sought to act for “the good of the Church,” which, he says, “is suffering from a tremendous confusion” on the points they have raised especially. He notes, for example, that priests in different dioceses are being given contradictory directions on how to handle the question of access to Communion for those in adulterous unions.

    “We, as cardinals, judged it our responsibility to request a clarification with regard to these questions, in order to put an end to this spread of confusion that is actually leading people into error,” he says.

    “For us to remain silent about these fundamental doubts, which have arisen as a result of the text of Amoris Laetitia, would, on our part, be a grave lack of charity toward the Pope and a grave lack in fulfilling the duties of our own office in the Church,” he adds.

    Read Ed Pentin’s full interview with Cardinal Burke here.
     
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  4. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    Only God can stop the St Gallen's group now.
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I am sorry for my ignorance but I have never heard of a , 'Formal correction,' of a Pope by Cardinals and Bishops before this. It seems this may have happened before on more than one occasion. Has anybody reading this any idea when and where such things happened? Forgive my ignorance, I am not denying they may have happened , it is just I cannot recall reading about such a thing(s).

    How interesting.
     
  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Ahh I see they cite the Letter to the Galatioas as the first instance. True ; it would be accurate to describe that as the first formal correction of a Pope in this case, St Peter:

    "When Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." (Saint Paul, in his Epistle to the Galatians)

    upload_2016-11-16_20-16-28.jpeg

    St Peter and St Paul, pray for us.
     
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  7. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    This article discusses a situation in the 1330's when this was done:
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...if-the-pope-doesnt-make-amoris-clarification/
    "One example is the challenge to Pope John XXII in the 1330s. He had publicly taught – though only as his personal opinion – that souls in Heaven would not actually see God until the Final Judgment: a teaching contrary to Church doctrine.

    In response, several theologians challenged Pope John. A few were punished, but the Pope backed down after a joint letter by theologians from the University of Paris, under the leadership of Paludanus, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. The letter professed total obedience to John, but affirmed that the teachings being attributed to him were contrary to the Catholic faith. Before his death John withdrew his heretical opinion."

    PS - Same article that Brian started the thread with, sorry if I confused anyone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
    BrianK likes this.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Wow!! I must read up on this. Thank you Carol.:)

    Only 780 years ago, I should have remembered. :D:D;) What strange times we are living through. Much, much need for prayer and deep discernment here.

    But in both cases, Pope St Peter and Pope John xxii backed down. But I think maybe there has never been a case were a Pope, corrected, did not back down?
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I must pray more for the Pope.
     
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I am wondering if we are all approaching a time when It might be better to close the forum except for leaving it opening for reading so that we might all pray and exercise discernment for a period , say leading up to Christmas?

    I know a feel the need to go to Our Lady and ask her advice about all this as I feel , I admit, a little lost. Has anyone else an opinion?
     
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  11. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Yeah, I can't remember back to 133? either. :ROFLMAO:
    Let's us know if you find any other occurrences of this, thank you.
     
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  12. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    I think that the forum provides support for what is going on in the church, the world and our lives so maybe it is best to keep it available but it is your decision. If you want to curtail certain discussions that is always up to you of course.

    Personally, in this matter of a request for a correction from the Pope I think it will all work out.
     
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  13. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I would second Carol on this. Perhaps curtailing certain discussions if you feel you need to, but the forum for me is a place of support as well as an exchange of information.
    Of course you must do whatever you feel you need to and we will respect that.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I am not so sure it will work out at all in the medium term. Catholic Prophecy appears to indicate not.

    In the longer term , yes of course.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  15. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    I have one question. Was Anacletus II a true pope? He lived in times of st. Malachy and since his name was Pietro and was born in Rome, he became a metaphoric image of last pope Petrus Romanus. Until now only two Jews became popes: Petrus and Anacletus II.
    His great opponent was SAINT Bernard, because of his heresies. After his dead he was annuled as pope.
    But my message is this: Who thinks, pope Francis is true pope, may pray and love his soul. But, Who thinks or even knows, who pope Francis real is, may pray seven times more for his soul and love him.
    Let us say the truth: we, Christians, got such pope, as we are. We love rather material wealth as spiritual, therefore if we wish the conversion of pope Francis, first, we must convert ourselves.
     
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    We have a tendency to blame our Prelates, but I think at the judgement it will become clear that this crisis was brought about by the laity as well. Perhaps even mostly because of us. It was due to our lack of prayer for the Priests, Bishops, Cardinals, and Popes as was asked of us at Fatima and so many other of Our Lady's apparitions. As well as our lack of sufficiently doing the Five First Saturdays and spreading that devotion as we were asked to.

    Indeed the Chastisement could have been avoided altogether if we had done these things properly. We should not be looking outward right now to cast blame. :cry:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
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  17. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    Yes, but with a caveat. I feel we're on the precipice of the great events beginning, so completely closing the forum may not be the best idea as we'll need to talk. Mabye it's best to put a moratorium on talk about the Pope and the dissent for a week, two weeks, month and take that issue to prayer?
     
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  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I too feel that events are moving and will continue to move at an alarming rate from here on out.
    Six weeks seems an eternity...
     
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  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Sadly, I have never heard any priest talking about our Lady's requests at Fatima. I am a convert to our faith, and I never knew about Mother Mary asking us to pray for our Pope, Bishops and Priests; and the five first Saturdays, until I read about it online. And even after knowing about it, I wondered why no one talked about it; thinking that maybe it had become irrelevant at some point in time. In fact, when I enquired about Fatima's apparitions, I was made to feel that I was seeking out the sensational.
    Hence, I feel that the blame cannot be mostly due to the laity.
     
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  20. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I was talking to someone in our Church last month who had never heard of the Fatima secrets. She had heard that Our Lady had appeared to some children in Fatima but knew nothing about the secrets or the First Saturday devotions. I'm not surprised she didn't know about the First Saturday devotions because nobody ever mentions them but I was flabbergasted that she she knew nothing about the secrets or the miracle of the sun. I think that the hierarchy don't like us dwelling too much on prophecies so they tend to play them down. I can understand that to some extent because people can take it to extremes, focusing too much on the future rather than living in the present as we are supposed to do.

    It's rare to hear a priest give a sermon about the trials in store for the Church, even those prophesied in the Book of Revelation. Usually we get the "don't fret, it's all a long way off" type of sermon. I was really surprised earlier this week when a priest who normally speaks in a very low, almost whispering tone, read the Gospel loud and clear, really stressing every word, and followed up with a sermon that more or less told us to get our act together, prepare for hard times and start defending the Faith.
     
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