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Cardinal Burke corrects Church Militant on Consecration

Discussion in 'Consecration to Mary.' started by BrianK, May 29, 2017.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Absolutely, but it isn't a given that the hierarchy at that time believed the Fatima message. Wasn't there a reference to doomsday prophets or words to that effect? Perhaps they thought that an Ecumenical Council would bring world peace and the conversion of Russia. Who knows their real motives.
    josephite likes this.
  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yes, Dolours. And we were in the depths of the Cold War. Is that what you meant about the East-West war?
    SgCatholic, I am just shaking my head along with you at the number of opportunities that were missed to reveal the secrets and promote the message. At least now the shepherds have been canonized and perhaps we shall see some good fruits from that. I know human frailty has played a part, but the Masonic infiltration and diabolical disorientation are also factors. This is a fallen world. All that is rotten will fall. We are seeing that now.
    josephite and SgCatholic like this.
  3. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    This is the message that would truly have been deemed too shocking to release to the faithful.
    And it would explain Pope John xxiii's words after reading the 3rd secret - "this does not refer to my papacy...."
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  4. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    It is inexplicable that they recognised the Fatima apparitions as real/true, saw the 2nd secret's prophecy fulfilled and then suddenly think that the 3rd secret was the result of the seer's imagination. No, the only explanation is that the 3rd secret was indeed being fulfilled then within the Church. The smoke of Satan had entered the Church.

    One thing is certain - God's orders, delivered through Our Blessed Mother, were blatantly disregarded.
  5. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Then the people at the very top of the Church didn't have faith in God himself. They presumed to know better than God?
    They refused to do the one simple thing necessary for Russia's conversion - the Pope had to consecrate Russia (by name), in union with all the Bishops of the world.
  6. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I'm not disagreeing with you. Trouble is that Fatima not being Divine Revelation, nobody, not even the Pope, has ever been obliged to believe in it. I get the impression that perhaps Pope John XX111 didn't fully believe in Fatima or perhaps believed that Lucy had misinterpreted the vision. There's nothing in the vision that could have convinced Pope John that it didn't refer to his papacy. Neither Rome nor anyone living there could have been certain that a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact would leave them unscathed. The key is in the interpretation of the vision, and the Vatican can reveal as much or as little of the interpretation as it deems necessary.

    I also believe that the shooting of Pope John Paul was a wake-up call from Heaven to a Pope whose faith was rock solid and whose devotion to the Mother of God was beyond question. I read somewhere (possibly on Wikipedia) that the Czechoslovakian Government was behind the assassination attempt, and that the Czech relative of some Cardinal close to the Pope had smuggled a microphone into the Vatican hidden inside a statue of Our Lady. Pope John Paul knew the dangers of Communism. Laid back, people's Pope, John XX111, perhaps didn't have the same understanding although he should have known. To put it midly, populist, or "people's" popes can be something of a mixed blessing
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I remember vividly that there were little prayer cards in the pews and after Mass we prayed the prayers for the Success of the Ecumenical Council.
    Might as well have said, pray that the Freemasons will succeed in dismantling my beloved Church.
    Yes, the diabolical disorientation of the Ecumenical Council. I know in the messages of Verne Dagenais the Council is explained as being from God. I am not entirely convinced of that.
    We had a priest in a neighboring parish who has since retired. He celebrated Mass in the Extraordinary Form and in the Novus Ordo. The way he explained it: the two forms are different, and each has its own characteristics, two different forms of worship. Well, he was correct, of course, and I do attend Novus Ordo Masses, but my heart is in the Latin Extraordinary Form, 1962 missal or before.
    I abhor the clapping, and I am sad that the communion rails have been removed. Don't get me started!!!!!!
    At any rate, all that is rotten will fall. God is "trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored." (Battle Hymn of the Republic)
    Dolours, you are correct in saying that we are not obliged to believe. However, I am glad I am not the Popes who have to undergo judgement.
  8. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Exactly. It must have been in the text written on that single sheet of paper.
    So, back to square one - the real 3rd secret has never been released.

    I disagree. Poor Sister Lucia was distraught in that 1957 talk/interview with Father Fuentes.

    Interview of December 26, 1957

    Speaking to the sisters of Motherhouse of the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart in Mexico on May 22, 1958, Fr. Fuentes said, “I want to tell you the last conversation I had with her [Sister Lucy], which was on December 26 of last year. It was in the convent, where I found her very sad, pale and drawn.”


    A very grave Sister Lucia in 1957

    He then proceeded to read Sister’s Lucy’s words to him at the December 26, 1957, interview:

    “Father, the Blessed Virgin is very sad because no one has paid attention to her Message, neither the good nor the bad. The good, because they continue on the road of goodness, but without paying mind to this Message. The bad, because of their sins, do not see God’s chastisement already falling on them presently; they also continue on their path of badness, ignoring the Message. But, Father, you must believe me that God is going to punish the world and chastise it in a tremendous way.

    “The chastisement from Heaven is imminent. The year 1960 is on us, and then what will happen? It will be very sad for everyone, and far from a happy thing if the world does not pray and do penance before then. I cannot give more details, because it is still a secret. By the will of the Blessed Virgin, only the Holy Father and the Bishop of Fatima can know the secret. Both have chosen, however, not to open it in order not to be influenced by it. (1)

    “This is the third part of the Message of Our Lady, which still remains secret until 1960. Tell them, Father, that the Blessed Virgin said repeatedly – to my cousins Francisco and Jacinta as well as to me – that many nations would disappear from the face of the earth, that Russia would be the instrument of chastisement from Heaven for the whole world if the conversion of that poor Nation is not obtained beforehand. …”
  9. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I totally agree with you, HeavenlyHosts!
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  10. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    No. It didn't have to be in the text on the single sheet of paper describing the vision. It had to be in the separate text giving the interpretation of the vision. Heaven's goal has always been to bring us closer to God in this life and ultimately eternal happiness in the next. There was enough in the vision to get people praying the Rosary and doing the five Saturdays. What was missing was conviction on the part of the hierarchy. The hierarchy made mistakes, always doing too little too late. It's easy for us to blame the hierarchy but how much is down to us? The hierarchy doesn't exist in a vacuum. I confess to never having spent a whole lot of time praying for priests or the Pope, so I have to take my share of the blame. That was prior to the election of Pope Francis. I have a lot of catching up to do but I'm working on it. What about you?
  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

  12. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    There's some confusion here.
    The officially released 3rd secret, which was the vision alone, was on 4 sheets of paper.
    But the original letter that Sister Lucia handed to the Bishop was only a single sheet of paper.

    In other words, the actual text of the real 3rd secret - on one sheet of paper.
    The 'vision' that was released by the Vatican as the 3rd secret in 2000 - on 4 sheets of paper.


    Catholics also had good reason to suspect the existence of a second text because of evidence from Bishop Venancio at Fatima.

    In 1957, when Cardinal Ottaviani’s Holy Office requested the Bishop of Fatima send the Secret to the Vatican, Fatima’s Bishop da Silva entrusted the task to auxiliary Bishop Venancio. At one point when Bishop Venancio was alone with the Secret, he held the envelope up to the light. He could discern that in the Bishop’s large envelope Sister Lucy’s smaller envelope. And inside this envelope was an ordinary sheet of paper with margins on each side of three quarters of a centimeter. Frère Michel points out that Bishop Venancio “took the trouble to note the size of everything.” It is from Bishop Venancio that we learn the final Secret was written on one small sheet of paper containing about 25 to 30 lines.

    Yet the Vatican’s June 26 Third Secret was written by Sister Lucy on four sheets of paper and contained 62 lines. Here again, we encounter evidence of two texts of the Secret.
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  13. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I'm a convert, baptised 8 years ago. In all the time before and since, I have never heard any priest talk about the Fatima messages. Definitely not about the 5 first Saturdays. Very little about the rosary. My family and I started praying the rosary after we were taught how to by the Legion of Mary ladies who came to our house in the month of October a few years ago, upon us signing up for it.

    Almost all of what I know about Fatima, I have read up on my own - thanks to the internet.
    And only after Pope Francis' election, did I learn of the other apparitions that had messages exhorting the faithful to pray for the Pope, Bishops and priests.

    So, yes I am late getting in onto the scene. It is also hard to do everything that I have read - with regards to what Mother Mary said the faithful should do. Because no one else around me seems to talk about it or do it (apart from praying the rosary). I recently mentioned the Saturday morning mass in honour of our Lady to my priest - he wasn't enthusiastic.
    AED, HeavenlyHosts and Fatima like this.
  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Apologies accepted, Praetorian. There is no doubt that 'something is missing' in what we have been told about the Third Secret. But in trying to discern what is missing I think we have to try and avoid conspiracy theories. The recent biography of Sister Lucia is hugely important in my view in helping us discern.

    I am copying, in the next post, the section of the book where sister Lucia relates how she came to finally write down the secret. She had struggled for some time being physically unable to do it.

    Praetorian likes this.
  15. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Here is the extract from 'A Pathway under the Gaze of Mary':

    I then asked Our Lady to let me know if it was the Will of God. I went to the chapel at 4pm in the afternoon, the hour that I always made a visit to the Blessed Sacrament because I was ordinarily alone. I don't know why, but I liked being alone with Jesus in the Tabernacle.

    Then I knelt in the middle, next to the rung of the Communion rail and asked Jesus to make known to me what was His Will. Accustomed as I was to believe that the orders of the Superiors was the expression of the Will of God, I couldn't believe that this wasn't. Feeling puzzled and half absorbed under the weight of a dark cloud that seemed to hang over me, with my face between my hands, I hoped without knowing how for a response. I then felt a friendly, affectionate and motherly hand touch me on the shoulder and I looked up and saw the beloved Mother from Heaven. "Do not be afraid, God wanted to prove your obedience, faith and humility. Be at peace and write what they order you, but do not give your opinion of its meaning. After writing it, place it in an envelope, close and seal it and write on the outside that this can only be opened in 1960 by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon or by the Bishop of Leiria.

    I felt my spirit flooded by a mystery of light that is God and in Him saw and heard:

    "The tip of the spear as a flame unlatches and touches the axis of the earth. It shudders. Mountains, cities, towns, and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, and the clouds emerge from their limits, overflowing and bringing with them in a whirlwind houses and people in numbers that are not possible to count. It is the purification of the world as it plunges into sin. Hatred and ambition cause the destructive war!" ?

    Then I felt the rapid beating of my heart and in my mind the echo of a gentle voice saying:

    -In time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. In eternity, Heaven! This word Heaven filled my soul with peace and happiness, so that almost without realizing it, I was repeating for a long time:
    -The Heaven, the Heaven! The greatest supernatural strength passed and I wrote and did it without difficulty on January 3, 1944, on my knees, resting on the bed that served me as a table.​

    The paragraph I have highlighted is the text I was suggesting might be part (or whole) of any extra text associated with the Secret. Alternatively, the missing text could be another text that Sister Lucia wrote at the same time with a similar apocalyptic content. It does not have to be an explanation of the Third Secret, I suspect that it probably isn't. I just find the highlighted text 'close' to the content of the Akita message.

    Mario and Blizzard like this.
  16. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    The missing text would have to be Words from Our Lady.
    That much has been established.
    At least concede that David.
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
    BrianK likes this.
  17. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Not sure why, Mac. Remind me.
  18. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    SgCatholic, what you have said about priests having no interest in our Lady of Fatima is exactly why the Consecration of Russia and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Era of Peace have not come. The apathy towards our Lady of Fatima will not be there when these thing do take place. Everyone in the world, not just the few on this forum and elsewhere, will know about about the victory and era of peace that will come to the world through Mary's Immaculate Heart Triumph over Satan. For anyone to think otherwise would be to shame God of the glory that he intends to give to his mother in the view and knowledge of the whole world.
    SgCatholic, Arantxa and AED like this.
  19. AED

    AED Powers

    It is very hard to find a Saturday morning Mass these days. We have one because we have two convents that have chaplain and he always says an 8 o'clock Mass. do you have any convent or Monastery near by? Might be worth checking their schedule. And blessings on you for following the path of graces Our Lady has laid out for you. No doubt she marked you for her child. When we are in a place where devotions and Masses are hard to come by that in itself is a great offering when our hearts long for it and we can't get it. It is like a continuous act of love for our Lord. And very pleasing to Him I am sure. Pray for that priest. Maybe prayer and help from your guardian angel and his guardian angel he just might change his mind.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  20. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    A few comments that might be relevant to the discussion:

    1. When Cardinal Ratzinger states that Akita is essentially the message of Fatima I think we should take the WHOLE of the Akita message. Ratzinger didn´t say that Fatima contained part of Akita. So the spiritual component should also be considered, which is:

    "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    I don´t know why David chose to quote the physical component but left out the spiritual part.

    Now, can´t we see the spiritual part unfolding before our eyes? "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops."? Or is everything fine now and these words pertain to the future?

    2. Some of us here (myself included) believe in Medjugorje. Medj states clearly that the release of the secrets will "break the power of Satan and bring about the triumph of the immaculate heart" or something to that effect. The title of the recently published book by seer Mirjana is "My Heart will triumph" and, again, the same idea is clearly stated. So if you believe the messages of Medj THE TRIUMPH HAS NOT YET HAPPENED. This recent interview with Sr Emmanuel says the triumph IS CLOSE, so, of course, it hasn´t happened: http://www.mysticpost.com/2017/02/s...ng-vicka-triumph-immaculate-heart-mary-close/

    3. an interesting point sometimes overlooked is that in her vision presented in her memoirs, Sister Lucia says: "-In time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic". Notice something? The word "Roman" is conspicuously missing! What does that mean? Why did she choose to do that?

    4. Are the physical chastisements described in Akita and in the "tip of the spear" vision by Sister Lucia the same? I really don´t know. But they may well be. Many people believe they are two separate chastisements: the tip of the spear vision seems to describe a punishment by WATER. The Akita vision one by FIRE. But maybe, just maybe, these will be combined. When Akita refers to a punishment "greater than the deluge" maybe it´s describing an actual deluge, but of greater proportions (because of the sheer number of people who may die?). The tip of the spear vision, though focusing on water also contains a reference to fire: "The tip of the spear AS A FLAME."

    Anyway, food for thought.
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