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Cardinal Burke corrects Church Militant on Consecration

Discussion in 'Consecration to Mary.' started by BrianK, May 29, 2017.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member


    Cardinal Burke, Church Militant and me

    LifeSiteNews: “Certainly, Pope Saint John Paul II consecrated the world, including Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on March 25, 1984,” said Cardinal Burke. “But, today, once again, we hear the call of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart, in accord with her explicit instruction.”​

    Cardinal Burke is calling for the Pope to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary AS OUR LADY instructed- not how Pope Saint JPII did it - the whole world which included Russia. That was nice, but that wasn't what Our Lady instructed the pope to do.

    This has been a bone of contention among Catholics for decades now.

    Last summer Church Militant and I went a few rounds over this issue in the comments area of their website and then they removed my comments. I wrote about it in my post "Sometimes you just gotta laugh and let it go".

    I stated that the consecration of Russia was not done as instructed by our Lady and was in fact rejected several times before Sr. Lucy finally said it was accepted and I gave Church Militant EWTN's own link- which Church Militant said to use for a source.

    Not liking my comment they removed it and told me I was "causing doubts" among Catholics for saying basically the same thing Cardinal Burke is now saying (see link).



    That was part of the exchange from July 8, 2016 under the Vorex episode "Rome Be Damned".

    What a difference a year makes...

    My comment July 2016:


    Church Militant's moderator to me July 9, 2016:


    Now we have Cardinal Burke (whom is well liked by the good folks at Church Militant) saying the same thing "in accord with her explicit instruction", that's what I said in Church Militant's comments.

    Suddenly now Church Militant is singing a different tune:
    Church Militant: "Burke clarified that he's not aiming to cast doubt on the merits of the May 25, 1984 consecration by Pope St. John Paul II of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, but called again for an explicit consecration of Russia by name, together with the world's bishops. A consecration, which fulfills all of those conditions, has not yet been accomplished."Now I am not complaining about this change of tune by the good folks at Church Militant. To be sure, I am thrilled they now agree that Our Lady's instructions were not followed properly. I just hope they will explain this to their viewers as some people might be wondering what it is that has changed for them that they are saying something very different now than just last summer. Is it because Cardinal Burke says so? Was that all it took? I have to admit, I am curious to know what it was that changed their minds.

    In Christ,

    Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

    ***Several days ago I left a comment on Church Militant's website asking them what changed their minds about this...I guess I am not getting an answer:


    UPDATE: Church Militant has responded...they say nothing changed their minds...?




    Ed Kleese, SgCatholic and Mac like this.
  2. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    But Cardinal Burke is not the authority we should look to on whether or not the Consecration was done properly. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued an authoritative document signed by then Cardinal Ratzinger stating that the 1984 Consecration was done and accepted by Heaven. This matter of the Consecration is a spiritual test of obedience. Perhaps the Triumph will not come until enough Catholics become obedient to the Church on this matter.
  3. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Everyone knows a consecration to the world was done and accepted by heaven. This is not the issue. The issue is that the consecration Russia that our Lady of Fatima specifically said to Lucia on several occasions must mention Russia. All consecrations are accepted by heaven, but only one will fulfill the Fatima request and that one is pending, while the world continues to get uglier and uglier by the day, because our popes have not complied to the specific request to this point.
    Heidi, Ed Kleese, SgCatholic and 3 others like this.
  4. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Exactly. And this is the bottom line....
    No one can say that the Consecration has been done as requested.Because we all know that it has not.
    And no authority has claimed it was done 'AS REQUESTED'.
    SgCatholic and BrianK like this.
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Here we go again. I don't know what Brian's post above is all about but it gives me an opportunity to provide some additional and updated information to the posts I made on the previous thread about Cardinal Burke and the Consecration.

    The Vatican back in 2000 confirmed that Sister Lucia had confirmed that John Paul's 1984 Consecration had fulfilled Our Lady's request.

    The 2015 biography of Sister Lucia produced by the Coimbran nuns confirmed the Vatican's position and confirmed the authenticity of Sister Lucia's letter of 1989 confirming the Consecration.

    The Krozner video posted for a time on the other thread had a great deal of information on the whole matter of the Consecration and included a brief section where Dr Frederick Zugibe and his wife relate how Sister Lucia had confirmed to them that the Consecration had been done.

    Dr Zugibe is a man of some reputation, see http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/

    I have just found a web page on the EWTN website which gives more information on Dr Zugibe's meeting with Sister Lucia and the convent nuns. It is totally conclusive on Sister Lucia's position.

    Here is a brief extract:

    Dr. Zugibe
    I went there and gave a full talk on the crucifixion to Sr. Lucia and the group there. In fact, Sr. Lucia had open arms out to me when I went there. I gave the talk — it was really beautiful because we had a nice conversation. In fact her doctor, a young woman, whom I had met — I inquired, I said that I would love to take some pictures with Sr. Lucia, but I understand that it is not allowed. So she asked the mother superior. The mother superior relayed my request to Sr. Lucia. Sr. Lucia came out and said, "I don't mind at all." She let us take a bunch of pictures, and we talked about different things.

    Then I went ahead, at that particular time, and I said, "I don't know if it's off-limits here, but I've been hearing a lot of different rumors and a lot of different ideas — I'd like to know about this, Sister. I'd like to ask you a question. Was the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary done? I heard it wasn't done — that it wasn't done right and so forth. That she [Sr. Lucia] had indicated that it was not done "

    Sr. Lucia looked both me and my wife right in the eye, and she said, "It was done! The Holy Father willed it. It was done, and you can tell your friends that it was done."

    The full page is at: http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/zuglucia.htm

    Richard67 and josephite like this.
  6. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    And no authority has claimed it was done 'AS REQUESTED'
    BrianK likes this.
  7. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    "Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis."

    Tarcisio Bertone, SDB
    Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
    Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    JosephCard. Ratzinger
    Prefect of the Congregation
    for the Doctrine of the Faith


    That's about as authoritative as it gets, Mac.
    davidtlig and josephite like this.
  8. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Pardon me gentlemen but I speak as an ordinary mother.

    I love each of my children unconditionally!

    And I worry about them all! I especially worry if one goes off the rails! So I sacrifice, pray and do extra penance for the child that I am worried about!

    I also ask for prayer from some great prayer's at mass and some of the people do not know my individual children by name!

    I normally tell these people the child’s name but more importantly I describe the child, by his/her attributes or characteristics that are more telling than a name! These attributes may be physical, perhaps, age, appearance or a current behaviour.

    When I see these people again and they say........... I’ve been praying for your son, the one who has displayed this or that behaviour; or the one who you were worried about because he said such and such!

    I immediately know who they are referring to, because as a mother I know each of my children by character and behaviour!

    Is the Blessed virgin Mary, a mother that knows each of her children or her country's by character?

    Is the Blessed virgin Mary, a mother that knows us by behaviour?

    Is the Blessed virgin Mary, a mother that knows her child, even without the child being named?

    Our Lady is a far greater mother than I am, and even I know my children by character and behaviour, even if the child's name is not mentioned!

    The Blessed Virgin Mary knew that Russia was the country intended for conseration when our Holy Father consecrated Russia to her Immaculate Heart! even though Saint Pope JP11 never mentioned Russia by name specifically............ He spoke of Russia in terms that Our Lady would know and she knew who he was referring to!

    God Bless Saint Pope John Paul 11 because he accomplished the consecration that Our Lady had requested:

    In 1984 and in union with all the Bishops of the world he gave a trully heartfelt consecration of Russia and I know it melted Our Lady's Heart and it melted mine.

    The Holy Father was unable to use the word Russia because of diplomatic advice and cautions but He found a way around this!

    The Holy Father implored heaven to accept this consecration as a consecration of Russia!, Pope John Paul II even deviated from the text of the consecration to add..........

    In a special way we entrust and consecrate to you those individuals and nations which particularly need to be thus entrusted and consecrated!!!

    Also the text of the consecration itself was imbued with
    references to Russia!

    Mother of the Church! Enlighten the People of God along the paths of faith, hope, and love! Enlighten especially the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting! Help us to live in the truth of the consecration of Christ for the entire human family of the modern world.

    Mother of all individuals and peoples, you know all their sufferings and hopes. In your motherly heart you feel all the struggles between good and evil, between light and darkness, that convulse the world: accept the plea which we make in the Holy Spirit directly to your heart, and embrace with the love of the Mother and Handmaid of the Lord those who most await this embrace, and also those whose act of entrustment you too await in a particular way!!! Take under your motherly protection the whole human family, which with affectionate love we entrust to you, O Mother. May there dawn for everyone the time of peace and freedom, the time of truth, of justice and of hope”

    Just a mothers interpretation!
    Don_D and davidtlig like this.
  9. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Geee, if God and the Blessed Mother knew that the popes would fall to political pressure and not trust that He could and would direct all political pressure to his end, then why didn't he just have our Lady of Fatima say "consecrate the world"? It all comes down to trusting in his word and not fear. Jonah wouldn't have had to sit in the belly of a whale had he trusted to preach repentance to Nineveh. In a sense, that is what we are doing now in the belly of the whale of unprecedented evils all around the world, because 9 popes now have refused to comply to God's wishes rather than bow to man's political ramifications. The consecration of Russia will take place, but like Lucia said, "it will be late". It seems millions and millions more will have to suffer and die, before the Fatima request is heeded, but it will be done. The consecration of Russia was an "either/or" proposition. We are dealing with the "or" and it will get much much worse now, as even a blind person can see there is no Triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart over Satan and no peace in the world, which are the promises of our Lady of Fatima when the rightful consecration of Russia does take place.
    Jonah and SgCatholic like this.
  10. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    What you are saying in your beautiful post is that a mother is never a legalist when it comes to dealing with her children. Precisely so!

    This is why Sister Lucia could be so confident that St John Paul's Consecration fulfilled our Mother's wishes.

  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    gaaahhh, not as requested:mad:
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Can either or both of you tell me if this is something we are supposed to accept under pain of sin?
    As this is a serious matter please let me know the actual answer if you know and not opinions.
    I have heard many priests say the consecration is not done, so I cannot imagine disagreeing with this CDF statement would be under pain of sin, but I have been wrong before. ;)
    Thanks is advance.
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I see you have coined Pope Francis' word "legalist". Nice! So are you too saying the Blessed Mother is against God's commandments, his Laws and the Churches disciplines too, cause this would qualify for "legalist" too? What we have in reality is an alleged letter and alleged word to the infamous Cardinal Bertone from Lucia that Pope John Paul's consecration to the world sufficed for the specific consecration of Russia that she foretold from 1917 throughout, even the many tries, that the popes have done in consecrating the world before 1984 and even though Pope John Paul himself recognized it was not valid according to Father Amorth who stood next to the pope and headed the consecration. The evidence of the lack of the Triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart's triumph over Satan and the Era of Peace that follows clearly is not present and hasn't been since 1984. The evidence should be enough to know the 1984 consecration and the many before hand has not fulfilled our Lady of Fatima's specific request in 1917 for the consecration of Russia. No pope has ever claimed as much as Bertone and several on this forum have done. I don't know who "the Vatican" is that davidltig seems to feels qualifies as the mouth-piece for the pope is, so this again is worthless information.
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Ok Fatima, so you dismiss the Vatican and Sister Lucia's convent as reliable sources.

    But how about Dr Zugibe? We have his testimony at http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/zuglucia.htm But we also have a video of him saying the same thing. Was he lying?

  15. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Of course you are not compelled to believe the Vatican statement. But if we love God then we will always be searching for the truth so you would need to have some good evidence to dismiss the CDF document. Only God can know if we are searching for the truth or searching for vindication....
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    The truth is what I am seeking, whatever that may be.
    That is what is so vexing.
    There is good evidence that something is very amiss with this whole situation.
    I want to believe the Vatican line about Fatima, but something is very off.
    Like what about the rest of this statement:
    "In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, etc."

    Or what about the many statements about the contents of the Third Secret we have by high ranking Churchmen who have read it?
    The vision that was released in 2000 doesn't explain much of what they have said the Third Secret pertains to.

    I know this is not exactly the topic of the consecration of Russia, but it all bleeds over.
    Heidi and SgCatholic like this.
  17. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    This whole argument is like someone pissing against the wind, until and if you open your mind to Our Lady's request for us all to make the Five First Saturdays in reparation for the offenses committed against her Immaculate Heart.

    I sometimes wonder if God is sick right up to His back teeth at us pontificating about all this, blaming someone else while we sit on the fence as if it was not our fault in any way. Wrong.

    I can see as clear as day, the Holy Fathers have tried to comply with our Lady's request. I can also see as clear as day the faithful have not done their part as requested by Our Lady.

    And this is why the promised expected period of peace is not sweeping across this planet. So instead of investigating what this one said and the other one said about it, is all wasted energy. Get off your butts and start the Five First Saturdays devotion this Saturday 3rd June 2017, and you will be on the right track.

    The laity response is the mortar that is required to solidify what God has promised through Our Lady of Fatima. The lack of response is to me the evidence of why Gods Will has not yet been accomplished as we hoped. It is our own fault. So lets stop being presumptive about the Popes. And I do support the view that Saint John Paul did the job in 1984. The laity are the weak link in the chain. End of.
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you Julia, a very strongly worded post! :)

    I disagree that all of the discussion is pointless. I think the back and forth, as long as it is civilized, brings out a lot of facts that we may not be aware of and exposes us to other points of view. People cite interesting articles and interviews, etc. we might not otherwise come across. I welcome the dialogue as long as it doesn't oppose the truths of the faith. It can be a learning experience.

    That being said, I strongly agree with you that the laity have dropped the ball on this as well.
    Consecrating Russia is only one aspect of Heaven's prescription for our times and whether it was done or not, that is not the part of the directives from Heaven that we are responsible for.
    We need to do the First Five Saturdays, Pray much more for the Pope and salvation of souls and do Penance, Penance, Penance!
    That is what we were asked to do.

    How many of us are really doing serious penances?
    The kind Sister Lucy and the children did?
    I don't mean not eating the extra piece of cake, I mean serious penances?
    I am guilty of not doing this :(

    If we are to be Our Lady's Heel as St. Louis DeMontfort said then we better get ourselves in gear.
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  19. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I have done the 5 first Satruday's, with my family, many times over. Our family still prays for the consecration of Russia and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart every night after our rosary. I do agree with you Julia, that hardly anyone is doing the 5 first Saturday's, mostly because it is NOT being promoted by hardly any clergy for decades now. The laity are as dumb as a box of rocks by choice. They get little of nothing from the average pastor on any events/messages from the Mother of God. People seem content in this world about to undergo massive war and change, so long as they have their cell phones, I-pads, Facebook, entertainment, eating out, etc.... (all part of the diabolical disorientation). We are in the age of apostasy, because we have not done as heaven has requested in so many approved and alleged messages/apparitions from heaven. If only our Pope demanded for all Bishops and Priests to consecrate Russia and if the laity would understand that it is only through prayer and doing the 5 First Saturday's, then and only then, will we find the era of peace promised. The average Catholic today is not even going to Church. I am 59 and every Church I attend, I am well in the younger half. It is worse in Europe, where even the majority of elderly have stopped going. All part of the apostasy for refusing to comply with heaves requests. It starts from the top and from there to our Bishops and Priests. The laity are clueless and have been dumbed down for generations now to the point where most no longer pray anymore. Fatima gave the Church an ""either/or" admonishment and the Church from the top down has chosen the "or". Thus we are at the precipice of global collapse on all fronts now, regardless if we think the era of peace has already taken place.
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I have said before that I am a convert. I converted in 1963. I have never heard a priest talk about the Five First Saturdays, even then. At the time, I was a teenager and my friends all talked about the fact that the Fatima Secret had not been revealed in 1960. My friends' father was Paul Scott, a reporter for The Remnant. (now deceased for some time) There are special Masses scheduled in the evening on First Friday here, and at one time there was an elderly man at my parish who organized a First Saturday devotion, but it was not something I participated in, because I was really unaware of the importance at the time, and probably was not ready to do penance, truthfully. I knew what reparation meant, though. There is no longer at First Saturday group at my parish, but we really don't need a group.
    I agree, Julia, we need to shoulder responsibility for our side of the street here.
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