Card. Kasper: It’s a scandal to deny Communion to adulterers

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Your predictable sophistry speaks volumes.
     
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  2. picadillo

    picadillo Guest


    Hi Dolours,

    Believe it or not, Windswept House and Fr Martin were the main reasons behind my reversion. The book was a collaboration between Fr Martin, whom I had two long personal phone conversations, Fr Charles Fiore, who was my spiritual advisor for a few years, and Fr Alfred Kunz , who was helping us (RCF) expose pedophilia within the catholic church hierarchy here in the US. I have personally corroborated all the events here in the states that were discussed in the book. I first found out about Fr Martin by watching an evangelist on tv (Jack Van Impe) who was exposing the traitors in the RCC according to Martin's book Keys of the Blood. I believe he was spot on then and believe he was spot on now. The ringleader was Cardinal Maria Martini who was in Windswept House and Pope Francis recently wrote an intro in his bio, very complimentary I might add. I read almost all his books, listened to almost all his interviews, although I am not in agreement with him on everything. He was the personal secretary to Cardinal Augustin Bea who was the personal confessor to 3 popes I believe. Windswept house is 94% fact. He told me that once you get into this crap, the devil's handiwork, you will always be stained., never able to wash it off you. He was absolutely correct. One other big contact was Fr Tom Doyle, who was secretary to the Apostolic nuncio here in the US, I believe Pio Laghi. I wish I could forget all the crap I was involved in, but he was right, it just sticks.
     
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  3. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    I think you know we fought similar problems here. A close personal friend, a retired priest here, attended seminary and was close friends with Fr. Kunz. Of course I think he was murdered for the fine work he was doing. A true martyr for the Faith.

    This pope is an astute student of Martini, obviously initiating his agenda as fast as he can.
     
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  4. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    You may be close to the truth, but not in the way you intend it. I'll ignore your ad hominem barb on my 'atheist' comment. To propose what Kasper does at his advanced age is to expose himself to such huge risk of damnation that it presents the distinct possibility that he doesn't believe such a risk exists.

    As for your insinuation that those who profess the Catholic faith as it always has been through thousands of years and hundreds of papacies, and whatever label you might apply to us in order to single us out for insult, are the ones under 'diabolical disorientation', do remember that you also condemn all those other generations of Catholics right back to Christ Himself who would all consider these proposals of Kasper to be anathema.

    You are very naive if you trust Churchmen, even a Pope, who contradict Christ because it has happened before. Quite a few cardinals and bishops have contradicted the Kasper/Schonborn interpretation-are they also diabolic? Regarding Pope Francis, he, unlike Kasper and Schonborn, has made no such public comment on the matter. A private letter carries no authority. If the abolition of sin is truly the direction of the Holy Spirit, why is Pope Francis so reticent? He won't personnally explain clearly this paradigm shift in Church teaching while expressing an opinion on just about every other subject under the sun. And then he blames us for not accepting what he won't tell us.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
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  5. picadillo

    picadillo Guest


    DavidT says the pope is pushing "that they all may be one." Nonsense. He is pushing his own and that of the St Gallen's group agenda. How? By using the Synod for the Families as an excuse for change, yes David, to change, perrenial church teaching. It was an example of pure Saul Alinsky. How do I know that? I went through it in the archdiocese of Chicago.

    1. Have an agenda
    2. Have a meeting, in this case a synod for the family (just like the affordable care act, the patriot act,etc)
    3. Always control the meeting by controlling the enemy ie. sack Cardinal Burke
    4. Use the Holy Spirit as a rationale to push through your agenda which just so happen to be your findings (wow, that must be the Holy Spirit)
    5. Attack anyone against the agenda as rigid, inflexible, pharaisitical,etc

    This, my friends is a typical Alynsky-ite tactic which our poipe has used. By the way, do you think any catholics such as the Polish catholic church or the African church, or Evangelical Christians/Catholics in the US,etc are not telling this pope to go pound sand? Do you think this behavior by our pope is promoting unity with these groiups or the orthodox? Please, give me a break.
     
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  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The only unity will be of those nominal, ethnic Catholic communities who will be 'nones' in another generation. The rest of us will cling on, although uncomfortably in our respective gulags.
     
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  7. padraig

    padraig Powers

    A Prayer of St. John Chrysostom,

    O Lord My God, I know that I am not worthy nor sufficient that Thou shouldest enter beneath the roof of the temple of my soul, for all is empty and fallen, and Thou hast not in me a place worthy to lay Thy head; but as from on high Thou didst humble Thyself for our sake, do Thou now also lower Thyself to my lowliness; and as Thou didst consent to lie in a cave and in a manger of dumb beasts, so consent also to lie in the manger of mine irrational soul and to enter into my defiled body. And as Thou didst not refuse to enter and to dine with sinners in the house of Simon the Leper, so deign also to enter into the house of my lowly soul, leprous and sinful. And as Thou didst not reject the harlot and sinner like me, when she came and touched Thee, so be compassionate also with me a sinner, as I approach and touch Thee. And as Thou didst feel no loathing for the defiled and unclean lips of her that kissed Thee, do Thou also not loathe my defiled lips nor mine abominable and impure mouth, and my polluted and unclean tongue. But let the fiery coal of Thy most Holy Body and Thy precious Blood be unto me for sanctification and enlightenment and health for my lowly soul and body, unto the lightening of the burden of my many sins, for preservation from every act of the devil, for the expulsion and prohibition of mine evil and wicked habits, unto the mortification of the passions, unto the keeping of Thy commandments, unto the application of Thy divine grace, unto the acquiring of Thy kingdom. For not with disdain do I approach Thee, O Christ God, but as one trusting in Thine ineffable goodness, and that I may not by much abstaining from Thy communion become the prey of the spiritual wolf.

    Wherefore do I entreat Thee, for Thou art the only Holy One, O Master: Sanctify my soul and body, my mind and heart, my belly and inward parts, and renew me entirely. And implant Thy fear in my members, and make Thy sanctification inalienable from me, and be unto me a helper and defender, guiding my life in peace, vouchsafing me also to stand at Thy right hand with Thy saints, through the intercessions and supplications of Thy most pure Mother, of Thine immaterial ministers and immaculate hosts, and of all the saints who from the ages have been pleasing unto Thee. Amen.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Where the saints trembled and hesitated, others rush and demand.
     
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  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Just had a thought. This website is obsolete. What reason is there to pray to Our Lady. What's all this nonsense about a Warning? What is there to be warned about? Isn't everything ok? After all, adulterers can merrily carry on doing what they're doing. What difference does it make, no harm done, they can take the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity without any conversion whatever in their lives. As we all know, 'what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander', so we'll have to accompany all the other sinners in the same way. Maybe Cardinal Danneels might eventually bring back the paedophile priests into ministry that he has already shown such willingness to accompany.
     
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  10. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    DeGaulle, you and picadillo come over as two very angry men. You both seem to be angry at the Church but the Church is Christ. It is sin you should be angry about but not the sinner. The world doesn't believe in God or sin and so it goes on sinning. The Lord and Our Lady are coming to help us but you are so angry and so busy blaming other people that you do not see Them. You need to find peace in yourselves and focus on Jesus and Mary.
     
  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I'm a sinner like everybody else, but when I decided just a few short years ago to begin living like a Catholic, I did so under the impression that the sins I committed without a thought had to stop. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been God I was fooling but myself. As for anger, it is you who are the emotional one here. Your only method of debate in these last few pages has been to attack the messenger rather than address the points we are making. Instead of self-righteously dismissing my 'level of debate' with a glib remark or accusing myself and others who share my views as being diabolically disorientated or of being someone letting anger get the better of me, why don't you give some actual reasons why the literal words of Jesus Christ regarding the one sin in a multitude that He chose to single out for detailed attention, and with good reason as it concerns so many people and is the foundation for so many other sins, ought to be usurped by a mere creature called Kasper in opposition to the constant two-millenium teachings of the Church and all the prior popes?
     
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    What about the sin of you calumniating Fr. Martin?
    I am still waiting for you to answer my post about that and please retract your statement.
     
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  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I suppose I should just shut up but all these points that you mention are points that have been endlessly argued about and those arguments get nowhere. I'm sorry if I come across as self-righteous but you seem not to notice the style of your own posts. We just see things very differently. I feel I have to come and respond when good men are being attacked and this thread has a wealth of examples of those attacks. I am still hoping that viewers of the forum might find the exchanges helpful. I feel no animosity to you at all but I rather feel I will get shouted again if I start discussing individual points.
     
  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I wonder if you recognise the aggressive tone of your post? But I will reply simply by pointing out that I quoted a paragraph from a website that stated that Malachi Martin believed that the Bayside apparitions were authentic. I had no reason to suppose that quote was in error. I'm sorry that this upsets you so much but its not clear to me why it does.
    As you know, I've already apologized in advance if the quote is inaccurate but at the moment it seems to be the website's word against yours.
     
  15. picadillo

    picadillo Guest


    DavidT,

    You are half correct as usual. The church is both human and divine. It is the human part that I am warning people about. In my opinion the human part is trying to corrupt the divine part. It is happening now. And like Seargant Schultz of Hogan's Heroes, you "see nothing."
     
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  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Okay thanks for clarifying that. I will bookmark your reply here for future reference when people post slanderous things you disagree with. According to you it is okay to post anything, even if untrue, about a clergy member as long as it's "found on a website."

    I can find plenty of websites that say very bad untrue things about the Pope. Should I post them because I "found them on a website"? Of course not.

    Shoddy (or nonexistent) research is not an excuse David.
    You clearly slandered a clergy member and giving a non-apology doesn't make it right.
     
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  17. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    For those who may be interested in seeing my so called 'slanderous' post, they can do so at http://motheofgod.com/threads/malac...orje-appartions-were-a-hoax.9810/#post-149662 and make their own judgement as to the accuracy of Praetorian's comments.
     
  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    It is slanderous because it is untrue.
    You are citing it to show that he supported an apparition which the bishop of the diocese said was false.
    You are quite a piece of work David.
     
  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Your answer to my question then is that you refuse to provide one. Since Kasper is the first Cardinal I know of who has explicitly called for the Eucharist for unrepentant adulterers, as opposed to the previous speculations, this is not something that has been endlessly argued, but one that is unprecedented.

    I would like you to describe the 'style' of my posting that seems to offend you. If you don't spell it out, I can't know.
     
  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    So do I.
    It's funny that you can't see that's all I was doing for Fr. Martin.
     

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