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Can we talk about homosexuals?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Freedom, May 19, 2012.

  1. Freedom

    Freedom Angels

    I'm not quite sure where to post this but I thought perhaps here would be best.

    I have said before that I believe in the work of Lorna Byrne, the Irish lady who sees Angels. However, there is something that confuses me and I'm hoping that all the helpful posters here would help me out a little.

    Lorna has posted on her Facebook page;
    "Today is International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia. I often see angels wrapping a beautiful golden thread around couples to teach them about romantic love. I also see this with homosexual couples. On the plane the other day coming back from Scotland there were two young men. They weren’t holding hands or anything like that, but the angels of love with them told me they were new partners and the angels of love had wrapped a golden tread around each of their wrists to help them to learn about love. They were chatting away to each other and looked so happy – the angels with them told me that they were hoping their love would grow. . It was lovely to see. Some people find it hard to accept that God and the angels could approve of romantic love between two men or two women. All I can say is that I see angels of love with such couples often.

    Blessings to people of all sexual orientations today.

    Lorna"


    Now when I saw Lorna speaking she was asked about this and I can't say I was surprised by her answer, nor would anyone who has read her books I think. She said that she knows exactly what the church says about gay relationships but all she can say is what she is shown. She believes she was given this gift to spread the message of God, love and hope that is given to her through the angels that is all she does. I believe her. However this confuses me, and as I read through the responses to the post I was struck by one that I liked.

    "The reason why Jesus was sent by God to preach was because the devils helpers sons of snakes had changed the texts of Mosaic law and included hard hearted ways - references of this can be found in the 'lost' gospels. Just like certain things have been manipulated through translation in today's Gospels to suggest Jesus is God incarnate hence why people often praise Jesus rather than God the Father who he came to teach about and why God has sent Lorna now. He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it and to make people see the error of their ways. God is loving and good and cares about everyone. Jesus was always saying why do you worry 'I AM' is here as in the spirit of living God who worked through Jesus as a channel to all those who had faith in God. We should always check the Hebrew translations and as Jesus taught never stop searching and looking. He taught everyone to pray and worship God the Father. Our conscience quite rightly teaches us right from wrong as this is where God tells us the truth so those who hurt and put down Gays, women etc are ignoring their conscience and the command to love thy neighbour. The devil sets traps for all as he is very powerful regardless of chosen religion it is acting against their heart and true nature and why they feel guilt. The wolves in sheep's clothing are those who lead others to do wrong and they pose as religious leaders but they are those who lead people to fight wars in the name of God, those who encourage people to stone each other and those who incite hatred and persecution. We should pray for them as Jesus / Mohammed instructed - God changes the outcome of everything. Jesus was sent at the end of an age of ignorance and so has Lorna been. There is Gods love for all bad and good but we must first get rid of ignorance and ask for forgiveness / make peace with each other. No one is more entitled to or important to God. We are equal specks of Gods souls. We only want to elevate ourselves in ego as we feel insecure and lacking in love so the answer is to spread love and fill each other with confidence."


    Now my difficulty lies in the fact that I have met many gay people, some I would count as friends. I really don't feel in a position to judge them, how could I? To me they are good, sensitive people, I enjoy their company. My confusion lies in the fact that the Angels appear to be bringing these couples together against what we have been taught by the church about these relationships. In my heart I would love to believe the Angels are bringing these couples together, the fact they are happy and experiencing love is a wonderful thing, don't all of us wish this for people that we care for?
     
  2. AZCactus

    AZCactus Seraphim

    The bible and the church speak very clearly on these matters. Anything that goes contrary to that MUST be rejected. It is as simple as that. That is not to say don't love the speaker but we must speak the truth and pray pray pray.
     
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  3. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    AZ you found us...hurray!

    I really balked at this because I feel the same way. I thought Scripture was pretty clear on this and not an item for negotiation. However private revelation, which this fits into, is just that...take it or leave it.
    My sons and I have gone round and round on this and continue to because many of their friends are gay and want their relationships to be applauded/recognized and or accepted. And of course I'm then the ogre. But really I think that's the game; to try to present something that is across the board unacceptable as normal and make the God-fearing one appear abnormal. It's more often the norm than the exception.
     
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  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well I must admit Freedom I have a little confession to make. :rolleyes:

    When I saw you writing about Lorna Byrne I had some misgivings about her. But because you mentioned she had a role in drawing you back to the Faith I didn't want to rock the barrel by writing as frankly as I should have . I was wrong in this as I see clearly now and should have spoke out at the time.

    Well my first misgiving is this. Catholic mystics as far as I have seen have never really become rich and famous and lionised for their visions . At least I can never ever remember reading about one. On the contrary they get persecuted, rejected, live lives very often unknown and sometimes wind up getting killed. This is par for the course going right back into Scripture were the Prophets usually wound up dead or in big, big trouble.

    Lorna , on the other hand is getting richer and richer and more and more famous by the day. I dre say her latest 'vision' approving homosexual relations will make her even more popular. More rich. More famous. THe world knows its own and hugs them to their bosom.

    But another thing made me uneasy about Lorna is that many of her descriptions of the appearance and activities and words of the angels goes far , far .far outside the Traditions of Catholic mysticism. Tradition is so ver6y,very important in Catholicism in general but mysticism as well. There is nothing new under the sun as Ecclesiastes says. Or as Pope Benedict I think said commenting about theology there can be no innovation for the Gospel message has already been told.

    But with Lorna there is loads and loads of innovation and in this she is closer to New Age than Catholic thought.

    Another thing makes me uneasy about LOrna and this is something subtle. Ture CAthoic Mysticism is not Pollyanna -ish. It is not all hugs, smiles , laughter and feel good. Catholic Mysticism is tough love, it carrys a sword behind its back so to speak, it can punch you right in the kisser, so to speak. New Age stuff is all pink canndy floss. ..like Lorna.

    I give you a for instance of what I mean . The priest at mass this morning was talking ..as he has before about a Catholic family who have a young man in his tweenties, their son who is a drug addict. This young man is stealing from them abousing them, having the police at the door and constantly breaking their hearts. Now this priest often praises this familt for their love. I think he is wrong I think the young guy should be kicked out on his ass. This is tough love, but it is still love. Pink cnady floos just won't cut it.

    But in any cse if Lorna is buttering up gay relationships she is backing the worng horse and if she really is seeing angels they are coming up from hell...and if our paths cross,as they well might I won't be too long in telling her so.:cautious:

    This is what St. John of the Cross, the acknowledged spiritual master in these matters, has to say about the dangers which visionaries are open to in his Dark Night of the Soul (2.2:3). Although he is essentially talking about "imaginative" visions, these points also broadly apply to "exterior" visions.
    "... the devil causes many to believe in vain visions and false prophecies; and strives to make them presume that God and the saints are speaking with them; and they often trust their own fancy. And the devil is also accustomed, in this state, to fill them with presumption and pride, so that they become attracted by vanity and arrogance, and allow themselves to be seen engaging in outward acts which appear holy, such as raptures and other manifestations. Thus they become bold with God, and lose holy fear, which is the key and the custodian of all the
    virtues; and in some of these souls so many are the falsehoods and deceits which tend to multiply, and so inveterate do they grow, that it is very doubtful if such souls will return to the pure road of virtue and true spirituality."

    Speaking of visions in general, and in particular of the danger of desiring them, he writes in The Ascent of Mount Carmel (2.11:8,12):
    8. "It is always well, then, that the soul should reject these things, and close its eyes to them, whencesoever they come. For, unless it does so, it will prepare the way for those things that come from the devil, and will give him such influence that, not only will his visions come in place of God's, but his visions will begin to increase, and those of God to cease, in such
    manner that the devil will have all the power and God will have none. So it has happened to many incautious and ignorant souls, who rely on these things to such an extent that many of them have found it hard to return to God in purity of faith; and many have been unable to return, so securely has the devil rooted himself in them; for which reason it is well to resist and
    reject them all. For, by the rejection of evil visions, the errors of the devil are avoided, and by the rejection of good visions no hindrance is offered to faith and the spirit harvests the fruit of them."

    12. "It is clear, then, that these sensual apprehensions and visions cannot be a means to union, since they bear no proportion to God; and this was one of the reasons why Christ desired that the Magdalene and Saint Thomas should not touch Him. And so the devil rejoices greatly when a soul desires to receive revelations, and when he sees it inclined to them, for he has then a great occasion and opportunity to insinuate errors and, in so far as he is able, to derogate from faith; for, as I have said, he renders the soul that desires them very gross, and at times even leads it into many temptations and unseemly ways."
    St. Teresa of Avila
    St. Teresa of Avila makes these comments about those with a tendency to believe that they have received revelations:
    "Not three or four only, but a large number of people have spoken to me on the subject, and therefore I know by experience that there are souls which, either because they possess vivid imaginations or active minds, are so wrapped up in their own ideas as to feel certain that they see whatever their fancy imagines. If they had ever beheld a genuine vision, they would recognise the deception at once. They themselves fabricate, piece by piece, what they fancy they see: - no after effects are produced on the mind, which is left less moved to devotion than by the sight of a sacred picture (Interior Castle, Sixth Mansion, ch. ix, 6).
     
  5. Miriam

    Miriam Archangels

    I agree with Padraig. Sometimes Satan will come as an angel of light, to try to deceive. I would stick with the Magisterium of the Church in regards homosexuality.
     
  6. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The Church's teaching on this issue resonates with centuries of profound understanding of the human condition [from the recent Catechism].

    2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

    2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

    2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
     
  7. Rain

    Rain Powers

    What the others said. I just spent some time reading up on Lorna--she definitely has a New Age bent. She said everybody goes to heaven, one religion is as good as the next, and during an interview she hesitates to call Jesus...God. Anybody else get a whiff of relativism just now? And that's not all. She also calls religion a horrid word. Considering Jesus died for the Catholic Church, a religion, that's a horrid thing for a practicing Catholic to say.
     
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  8. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    Rain, I love your discernment, you go straight to the bone!
     
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  9. Ishca

    Ishca New Member

    God created each of us. He created homosexuals too. The Bible, specifically Leviticus. Speaks about men who had chosen Homosexuality as a lifestyle (you may need to research the Historical context in which it was said) NOT those who were created homosexual. I'm sorry, but dogma will never see me expel one tenth of the world's population based on their biology. That is contrary to everything I know about my Lord. The Church has historically held positions that were false. Even condemned them to torture and death to maintain false doctrine. Galileo for example was tortured and murdered to maintain the churches position that all the stars and planets revolved around the earth. There are literally millions examples historically where great injustices to God's children have been committed by the church. Point being, that the Church gets it wrong some times. I feel this is one of them. Each one of us,whatever our gender, sexual orientation, culture, colour, height, width of place of origin is called to a deeper relationship with our Father and I'm sorry, but it's false doctrine to exclude anyone and to arrogantly stand between them and God. On the contrary we should be inclusive and encourage that relationship.
     
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Would you believe Lorna Byrne or would you believe Scripture and the Teachings of the Church going back 2,000 years? Everywhere homosexuality is mentioned in scripture it is condemned. Not once has Scripture ever approved anywhere of sexual perversion. Never once has the Church approved off perversion either.

    Lorna Byrne seeing angels with golden Threads does not change this. Either Scripture and the Church is wrong or Lorna and airplane angels are.

    I know as a Catholic who I am putting my money on and its not with golden thread angels.

    I never heard heard anything so bizarre and crazy in my entire life.
     
  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    'God created, homosexuals'. Really? I thought he created men and women and men and women either choose to carry out acts of sexual perversion or choose not too.

    Just as men and women choose to have sex with animals and children, choose to sell their bodies for sex , rob banks or sell drugs.

    Why do you say that one tenth of the worlds population indulge in sexual perversion where did you get these figures?

    If you no longer want anything to do with Dogma, you are no longer a Catholic, so if you're not playing the game you can no longer make the rules for the rest of us.

    Holding positions is not the same as Church teachings. There was a time many in the Church thought the world was flat, but this is not the Teaching of the Church. Church Teaching always taught sexual perversion was wrong. You are greatly confused.

    Where on Earth did you get the notion that Galileo was tortured and murdered? Why are you making things like this up?

    The greatest Charity we do for anyone is to tell them the Truth, especially a Truth that can save them from the fires of hell. The Church has always warned perverts that they are in danger of going to hell and I pray they always will.

    I will be throwing you off the forum as total heretic when I get home n the morning. I will also be praying for your poor soul as it seems to me you are in the very greatest need of it.
     
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    'Galileo was tortured and murdered'

    What utter and complete tripe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Death

    Death
    [​IMG]
    Tomb of Galileo, Santa Croce, Florence
    Galileo continued to receive visitors until 1642, when, after suffering fever and heart palpitations, he died on 8 January 1642, aged 77.[9][92] The Grand Duke of Tuscany, Ferdinando II, wished to bury him in the main body of the Basilica of Santa Croce, next to the tombs of his father and other ancestors, and to erect a marble mausoleum in his honour.[93]

    [​IMG]
    Middle finger of Galileo's right hand
    These plans were dropped, however, after Pope Urban VIII and his nephew, Cardinal Francesco Barberini, protested,[94] because Galileo had been condemned by the Catholic Church for "vehement suspicion of heresy".[95] He was instead buried in a small room next to the novices' chapel at the end of a corridor from the southern transept of the basilica to the sacristy.[96] He was reburied in the main body of the basilica in 1737 after a monument had been erected there in his honour;[97] during this move, three fingers and a tooth were removed from his remains.[98] One of these fingers, the middle finger from Galileo's right hand, is currently on exhibition at the Museo Galileo in Florence, Italy.[99]
     
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  13. Light

    Light Principalities

    Ischa

    I refer you to Matthew 16-19

    “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

    The Church that Jesus established is alive and its members are obliged to obey the teachings of the Church.

    If you read the Bible you will clearly and unambiguously see that 'homosexuality' is a mortal sin, (Romans 1: 26, 27 etc) there is no caveats given. One either obeys or does not and face the consequences (I Cor 6:9).

    So we have to leave Biblical texts exclusively to the Church to interpret and the question of the sinfulness of homosexuality has been established Church doctrine, since its foundation.

    You also infer that some are "created 'homosexual'; I must say I did not know that was scientifically established.

    You say "Point being, that the Church gets it wrong some times." I would suggest that while some people with authority in the church have been sinful, but the Church has never condoned sin. No one in the Church that I know of, stands between a sinner and his Creator.

    God Bless
     
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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    God created us male and female
    Animals too
    Otherwise we do not fit together and complement one another
    Plain and very simple
     
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  15. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    You seem to confuse greatly God's command that we love one another regardless of what sins we have committed. We are not commanded to love sin; in fact we are strongly advised to hate and detest sin. The urge of the flesh when catered to for sexual gratification outside of a valid marriage is SIN. I believe sexual urges which are catered for which have nothing to do with procreation are labelled 'masturbation' and therefore Mortal sins against the 6th Commandment of God.

    The urge of the flesh is not love. I love ice cream and sweets, and my flesh urges me to eat them. I would not be thinking of having sex with them. That would be perversion, disordered.

    I have read recently that there is a strong consensus nowadays that gender dismorphia, and gay and lesbian perversion is actually a mental disorder the same as anorexia or bulimia along with some forms of chronic depression and please God there will soon be places these sufferers can go to get mental health assistance to regain normal brain activity. Not too soon in my book when the rest of society is being asked to believe such insanity has to be accepted as normal.

    I agree with Padraig about Lorna. I had one of her books given to me and put it in the bin after reading a couple of chapters. I would not want to give it to anyone incase it influenced them, as I thought it was not Heavenly Angels this lady was talking about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Whenever homosexual life style is raised, I always go back to the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans. It is so clear that this sin, is next to abortion, the greatest abomination towards God. Galileo and his premise was not based on doctrine (teachings of faith and morals), so from that point you cannot compare this episode with teachings from God that can never change. If you don't understand this basic truth, you know very little about our Lord. The Church has never, nor could it ever embrace any teaching of God (doctrines of faith and morals) that could be said to have changed. God is the same yesterday, today and always as scripture confirms. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life as scripture attests to. Jesus is truth and truth cannot change! It is impossible for any doctrine of faith and morals to have ever changed and you or anyone else could not point to one that has ever done as much and yet you claim there are "millions of examples". It is either because you have no clue what a doctrine is or you have accepted a lie from the evil ones minions. Now it is easy to show where many doctrines of the protestant faith are in grave error, as they have changed from what God has revealed through scripture, tradition and his own son, Jesus. But, not so with the Catholic faith, which cannot error when teaching in matters of faith or morals through its magisterial teachings.
     
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    What really depresses me is the widespread belief that you can be fine with sexual perversion and still remain a Catholic.

    It reminds me of the words of Jesus, 'Not everyone who says, 'Lord', Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
     
  18. josephite

    josephite Powers

    I Love Miriam's posts!:)

    They are always Loving, truthful and full of humility!:love: and are normally short and succinct to boot!

    Eternal rest grant unto Miriam Oh Lord and may perpetual light shine upon her and may she rest in peace. Amen

    Miriam please pray for us here at the MoG forum. Amen
     
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  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Amen. Amen. Amen. Prayers for her soul.
     
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  20. any name you wish

    any name you wish Principalities

    God didn't create homosexuals, they are men who have fallen into a state where they are tempted to do bad things, as are we all. Achieving the Beatific Vision would rid them of their particular disordered inclinations; confirming them in this, on the other hand, is to say that their disorder is a part of their ontology and that their heaven is of the flesh, that is that that which they will attain, with full consent of their will, is hell itself. Encouraging anyone in this is gravely against charity, and capitulating to their weakness belies a cowardice as bad as the homosexual disorder itself.
     
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