Burke Calls for Consecration of Russia to Immaculate Heart of Mary

Discussion in 'Consecration to Mary' started by BrianK, May 19, 2017.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    David, are you discounting Jarg's interview I am citing above?
    I am just trying to sort all of this out.
     
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"


    What will happen has always been conditional.
    If it was done straight away we would have avoided WWII.
    We have as an example what happened in Portugal when that country was consecrated by its Bishops.

    “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the World''

    Like David you might like to change or add some?
    Perhaps you would like the quote to read ...

    “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, without mentioning Russia and not in union with the worlds Bishops, and she will be converted, but not to the true Faith.And a period of peace will be granted to the World until the third world war''
    What a fail!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  3. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Yes, when I chose the correct phrase to search for I found countless references to the 'interview'. Each reference in all the different websites quoted the 'existence' of the interview in the same way but none were able to provide a source for the original information. Significantly, the Wikipedia page which Jarg provided also provides no source to the original article. It simply refers to
    "the September 1985 issue of Sol de Fátima, a Spanish-language Catholic devotional magazine published by the Blue Army of Our Lady".

    I can only say that if anyone finds an actual copy of this magazine and an interview is found in it, then I believe it will almost certainly be of an old interview with Sister Lucia.

    But in searching this matter I have found another amazing piece of information. Apparently Sister Lucia gave an interview at the age of 90! The interview was published by the monthly Catholic Portugese magazine "Christus," published in Lisboa by an editorial group "Seminary":


    Sister Lucia was almost 90 years old at the time of the interview. She was living in the Carmelite Convent of Coimbra for half a century and had conversed with Cardinals Anthony Padiyara of India and Ricardo Vidal of the Phillippines. Conversion of Russia

    In the interview granted by Sister Lucia, she was explicit in her allusions about the consecration and conversion of Russia.

    Sister Lucia did not exclude any important facts. When Our Blessed Mother asked the three children to pray for this intention, she did not know what Russia was. "We thought it was a very bad woman." With time Sister Lucia began to understand the cruelty and the dramatic history of the people of Russia.

    She herself outlived communism and witnessed the dissolution of the Soviet block. Could this event be interpreted as a sign of Russia’s conversion? To this question, Sister Lucia refered to the man in Russia who "without knowing it, was God’s instrument for the conversion." - Gorbachov? - Yes.

    The Third Secret. Many people associate the apparitions of the Virgin at Fatima with the enigma of the third secret. To the question if the secret had to do with Second Vatican Council, the religious limited her response: "I cannot respond." When she was asked whether the third secret is apocalyptic she clarified: "Our Lady did not say it was in the Book of Revelation." But if she does not want the third secret of Fatima to be known, can the Pope make it known? The sister responded with simplicity that the Pope can reveal it if he wishes, "but I recommend for him not to reveal it. If he decides to, I recommend for him to be very prudent."

    The interview asked is was still having apparitions of Our Lady. Sister Lucia responded, " How curious . . . . I cannot say."

    Hell- The Virgin also spoke about hell, a theme that had been popular before and was now absent. Sister Lucia’s words were very clear: "Hell is a reality. It is a supernatural fire and not physical. It cannot be compared to fire that burns wood or charcoal."
    She offered advice to priests on this topic: "Continue preaching about hell because Our Lord himself spoke about hell, and it is in Sacred Scripture. God does not condemn anyone to hell. God gave men the liberty to choose, and God respects this human liberty."

    Atheism and materialism Sister Lucia recognizes, "atheism is a greater instrument utilized by the devil in our days. It is a grave sin against God that rejects His own existence and allows the practice of a variety of diabolic acts like abortion." As well, she said, "Communism ended, but materialism continues... People should desire more the things of God instead of first desiring the material things." Final Message. The Cardinals asked her if she wanted to conclude with anything in particular, a message for the world today. She responded: "He who is not with the Pope is not with God; and he who wants to be with God has to be with the Pope."


    http://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/apparitions/fatima/fatima_lucia_biography.html
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    She died before this Pope.
     
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  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I'm a bit slow on the uptake but I have just realised that this interview is one and the same as was captured on the Kronzer video that has been discussed earlier. I think the authenticity of the interview is thus confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2017
  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    You mentioned what I keep thinking about, imagine if it was done straight away. Would WWII have been avoided completely? or would Russia never made the mistake to take the side of the Nazis only to realize that they would be duped by them and then switch sides? In either case, things would have obviously been much different.
    But this is like putting off going to the dentist, you wait and wait, until finally you are in so much pain that something needs to be done. Padraig stated something similar to this, it is probably going to take something big to happen for it to be done now. I mean in which Russia is consecrated by name, of course.
     
    Mac likes this.
  7. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Thanks, David, for finding and sharing the report of that interview. Do you think it possible that part of the third secret has been withheld?

    I believe that, as the late Mother Angelica said, we haven't got the whole thing. Didn't Our Lady give Sr. Lucy an interpretation of the secret? I read something about Our Lady telling Lucy that she could share the secret with someone (not sure whether it was the Bishop) but not what Our Lady told her it meant. It's possible that Lucy was later given permission to share the interpretation with her Bishop or the Pope but not with the wider world. While I don't think we have the whole thing, I don't believe we have an automatic right to it.
     
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  8. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    So interesting how she advices not to reveal the 3rd secret, she seems really worried about the faithful. It seems to me there is no content in the secret we got that constitutes a danger for the faithful to know. This further supports the thesis that we didn't get the whole thing.

    At the same time, it also is in line with the other purported letters post 1989 where Lucia says the consecration was done as requested by our lady. I guess the key period there is 1984 - 1989 where you have Sol the Fatima purported interview and other supposed interviews or comments where Lucia insisted the consecration had not yet been done as requested. Something to investigate if you have time.

    In my view, Lucia simply change her opinion around 89. Why? She may have received a locution confirmation from our lady (that would be best scenario). Or she was asked by the Vatican secretary to remain silent to stop speculation, be humble, and trust the Holy Mother Church in believing the consecration was done and at least be patient - the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Christian rebirth development of Russia would further reinforce that view to her and the Pope over the years. It is also possible both the Pope and Lucia were unsure but were confirmed by the historical developments of 88-89. All of it is nevertheless speculation which the Vatican could have settled In 2000 with a simple published statement from sor Lucia and the Pope.
     
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  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I find the evidence for a missing text associated with the secret is overwhelming. In the recent book from Sr Lucia's nuns in Coimbra to which I keep referring, Sister Lucia describes her struggles in writing down the Third Secret. Eventually, she succeeds in writing it and then she wrote the following:

    I felt my spirit flooded by a mystery of light that is God and in Him saw and heard:

    "The tip of the spear as a flame unlatches and touches the axis of the earth. It shudders. Mountains, cities, towns, and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, and the clouds emerge from their limits, overflowing and bringing with them in a whirlwind houses and people in numbers that are not possible to count. It is the purification of the world as it plunges into sin. Hatred and ambition cause the destructive war!"


    http://www.spiritdaily.net/Pathway3.htm
     
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  10. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    True. The text above seems to imply some kind of axial tilt of the earth or a similar event that will cause the oceans to inundate coastal areas.

    This event is nowhere to be found in the version of the third secret released!
     
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you David (and Jarg too) for having this conversation. It has been interesting to follow. Lots to think about.

    I found this little nugget from the interview with Sister Lucy quite interesting:

    The Third Secret. Many people associate the apparitions of the Virgin at Fatima with the enigma of the third secret. To the question if the secret had to do with Second Vatican Council, the religious limited her response: "I cannot respond."

    Hmmm...
     
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    In my view there is nothing in the vision of the Third Secret that was released that:

    -Matches up with what Sister Lucy wrote "“In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved etc.”

    -Should have caused her to go into the personal agony she went through over writing it down. She wrote down the vision of Hell (The First Secret) apparently without such difficulty.

    -Has to do with chapters 8-13 of the Book of the Apocalypse, as she said it did.

    -Relates to apostasy or a danger to the faith. Yet many Church prelates up to the rank of Cardinal who have read the Third Secret have said it relates to this.


    In fact there is nothing really shocking at all in what they released. Most any vision or prophecy about this period is just as bad or worse than that. The message of Akita is much more frightening.
     
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  13. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Agree. Besides, there is the "little" business of the original text being allegedly about 23 lines long. The vision released is much longer than that.

    Also, Malachi Martin suggests a radically different version than what was released. So either Malachi Martin never read the secret and was a liar or the text released is NOT the original document.
     
  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    For me, the apocalyptic text I've quoted above as revealed in the book by the Coimbrian nuns is the most likely 'missing text' associated with the third secret. It also seems just about the right length! The text also aligns very much with the Akita prophecies.

    The question of why, in 1992/3, Sister Lucia thought it might be best for the Pope not now to publish the third secret, my view would be that, contrary to the narrative currently doing the rounds on the internet, Sister Lucia knew that the third secret concerned, primarily, Russia and she knew at that time that the Consecration had been done and communism had collapsed in Russia and the surrounding countries. In support of this theory, I quote (again from the above mentioned book) a letter from Sister Lucia to the Pope, explaining the reason for the 1960 date indicated for making the secret known:

    "Your Holiness knows of the existence of the so-called secret of Fatima, enclosed in a sealed envelope that can be opened in 1960. Although I cannot speak of the text and because the time is approaching, I must say that in 1960, communism will reach its maximum height, which can be increased in intensity and duration, and to which it must comply with the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Reign of Christ"

     
  15. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"


    Now you are really confusing things David.Those two Cardinals never attended an interview together.
    This is slapping the two Evaristo interviews,held a year apart into one interview.
     
  16. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    For those giving a lot of weight to the Portugese Tv interview with Sr Lucia,
    I sent an Email to our old friend Basto.
    After all he does live there and loves all things connected with Fatima, I hoped he may shed some light.
    He has given me permission to post his Email in full.

    Hi Basto, we have been discussing on MOG forum Carlos Evaristo and his video interview with Sr Lucia..I was wondering if you know of any longer clips?


    Hi Mac, unfortunately I don't think there is any video of that full interview available. There are two very rare books written by Mr. Evaristo about his two controversial interviews with Sister Lúcia, which I don't think they have any Church approval and there is also the investigation of Chris Ferrara about those interviews.

    Regarding the Krozner short video, I don't know anything about that. I can only confirm that its short part in Portuguese really came out on the news, some years ago, in a mainstream TV channel. However, due to the bad audio condition and the fact that it is out of context, it can't have any documental worth.

    The English translation of the Portuguese subtitles seems right to me, the problem actually is on Portuguese subtitles. I've listen it over and over, with loud volume and on big screen to get the help of the lip movements, trying to figure out what Sister Lúcia is really saying (I listen to it so many times someone asked me to turn it off) and I can't hear her saying all those words that you can see in the subtitles. Moreover, when you try to frame the words from the subtitles in the inaudible audio bits, they seem not to mach. There are too many words in the subtitles to fit in some of the inaudible bits, unless the transcription is not literal, it had to be edited in someway, even if the meaning was the same. On the other hand, in some of the parts that I can understand, I think that the transcription is not very accurate, as you can see below:

    After several attempts, this is what I can hear (the dash bits are the inaudible parts):

    Portuguese:

    Entenda-se que a palavra conversão |---| não devemos equivocarmo-nos, a palavra conversão |---| significa uma mudança, o que aconteceu é |------------------------| não significa que todo o mal desaparece.

    “…comigo(?) …o Santo Padre consagrar-me |----| a palavra Rússia. (Então alguém diz: claro, claro). Consagrar-me-á a Rússia, que se converterá. Mas essa paz (ou talvez parte?) |---| guerras, às guerras e perseguições que os erros do comunismo ateu estavam causando em todo o mundo.



    Translation:

    It is understood that the word conversion | --- | we should not be mistaken, the word conversion | --- | means a change, what happened is | ------------------------ | does not mean that all evil disappears.
    "... with me [?] ... the Holy Father consecrate me | ---- | the word Russia. [someone says: of course, of course] I will consecrate Russia, which will be converted. But this peace [or maybe part?] | --- | wars, the wars and persecutions that the errors of atheistic communism were causing throughout the world.

    I'm sorry but only a forensic team could possibly get a better transcript than this. I would be very pleased to get it better because I haven't got a final opinion about the validity of the performed consecrations. I just rely on those written sentences of Sister Lúcia quoting Our Lord saying that "they will do it [the consecration of Russia] but it will be to late", she didn't say which one; to me, it doesn't really matter which consecration was or will be valid, because it was already, or it will be to late, and that's the sad fate of the message of Fatima.

    About Mr. Carlos Evaristo, he seems to be a nice person who's doing a good job at some kind of foundation about the religious and historic culture of Portugal, or something like that. He often has short appearances on morning TV talk-shows when the topic of Fátima comes up. I just don't trust his technical ability to be the spokesman of Sister Lúcia, as he shows a lack of objectivity. For example, not long ago, I got into a discussion in the box of comments of this Spanish website Adelante La Fe (I don't know why but all the comments have been erased). He came in with only one comment saying that the sentence "In Portugal the dogma of faith will be always preserved etc" was not a prophecy but just an opinion of Sister Lúcia or something like that! But we know, in this regard, that Lúcia, has confirmed by letter that those were indeed the words of Our Lady.

    In the inquiry of Dr. José Jorge Goulven (from 1946, I think) she gives a written answer to his 65 questions about her memories. That's where you can read this:

    (Question 27th) - Has it really been said that Russia will convert and that Portugal will keep the Faith? What are the exact words of Our Lady in this apparition?


    (Question 27th) -Yes; it is true.

    In my book "Novos Documentos de Fátima" (1984) it has an added footnote to her answer saying: As you can see, she didn't answer the 2nd part of the question.
    My conclusion, that video, as it is now, is worth nothing, but we are in a time where everyone believe in whatever they want and I suppose this matter is not going to be different.

    I hope I was someway helpful. Take care my friend.

    Basto
     
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  17. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    PS....You know what Mac, I'm feeling tempted to publish that video on the youtube with the right subtitles. I've to think about it..



    Thanks very much for this information Basto.
    And please send us the link if you make the video with the right subtitles.(y)(y)
     
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  18. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    According to Basto's email, Our Lady said that the consecration will be done but it will be too late. Is he sure "too late" rather than simply "late" is accurate?

    Would it be possible for a deaf person to lip read the conversation in the video?
     
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  19. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I have been at work all day. Basto did send me two corrections. This sentence was one of them.
    'Will be late' is what it should say.
    The other I already made in the post.
    Considering English is not his first language he puts my posts to shame.
    Actually most of you do:eek:
     
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  20. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Thanks, Mac, for clarifying that Basto didn't intend changing what Our Lady said. That little word could make a huge difference to the meaning of the message.

    Regarding what Basto said about the video, I got the impression that he was trying to match the lip movements to the subtitles but not that he was able to read lips as a deaf person could.

    Reading posts from forum members whose first language is not English often makes me aware and ashamed of my own poor grammar and vocabulary.
     
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