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Building a Bridge...to nowhere: The LGBT Musings of James Martin

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by garabandal, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. AED

    AED Powers

    Just when you think it can't get more gut wrenching we see this. Truly how much time do we have before God closes the curtain on this very offensive play called the world. Sometimes I have to give myself a shake and be reminded not to fall asleep or drift into torpor. We are living in Sodom! That means fire and brimstone are going to fall. The question is how many are we able to take with us when the angels come to lead us out? I know way too many people who like this world and who are comfortable in it. That alone freezes my soul.
     
  2. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    I really wonder about things such as this proclivity to bring in and in some churches seemingly celebrate a lifestyle which we know is abhorrent to God. One the one hand, we know God loves ALL and wishes to bring each and every one of us to the Wedding feast. We should as followers be reaching out to everyone in Love. Wishing and praying for them to have God's peace. Which means forsaking and repenting of our sin. We know though, that we are seeing the days of Lot and of Noah emerging around us and being embraced by our Governments and societies.

    There is a great sign which is taking place in a few short months. We love signs but we have to heed them and not be as the Pharisees and Sadducees who could not discern them.

    Mat 16:1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
    Mat 16:2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
    Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
    Mat 16:4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed.


    We know that this agenda and Sodom is a part of the sign of our times times, Our Lord warns us to remember Lot's wife.

    We all can see the writing on the wall with regards to this. In the book of Wisdom chapter 2 it tells us just how the Lord was persecuted in his Passion. So too will those who are his servants be persecuted for they are like him in their ways. His ways are not like theirs and they put him to the test.

    In fact this also describes exactly the character of those who persecuted him. They too are of the same spirit today and we have seen this spirit throughout history always seeking to destroy Gods children.

    Catholic Study Bible

    Wisdom of Solomon 2:1-24

    1 1For they reasoned unsoundly, saying to themselves, "Short and sorrowful is our life,and there is no remedy when a man comes to his end,and no one has been known to return from Hades.
    2 2Because we were born by mere chance,and hereafter we shall be as though we had never been;because the breath in our nostrils is smoke,and reason is a spark kindled by the beating of our hearts.
    3 3When it is extinguished, the body will turn to ashes,and the spirit will dissolve like empty air.
    4 4Our name will be forgotten in time,and no one will remember our works;our life will pass away like the traces of a cloud,and be scattered like mistthat is chased by the rays of the sunand overcome by its heat.
    5 5For our allotted time is the passing of a shadow,and there is no return from our death,because it is sealed up and no one turns back.
    6 6"Come, therefore, let us enjoy the good things that exist,and make use of the creation to the full as in youth.
    7 7Let us take our fill of costly wine and perfumes,and let no flower of spring pass by us.
    8 8Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds before they wither.
    9 9Let none of us fail to share in our revelry,everywhere let us leave signs of enjoyment,because this is our portion, and this our lot.
    10 10Let us oppress the righteous poor man;let us not spare the widownor regard the gray hairs of the aged.
    11 11But let our might be our law of right,for what is weak proves itself to be useless.
    12 12"Let us lie in wait for the righteous man,because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions;he reproaches us for sins against the law,and accuses us of sins against our training.
    13 He professes to have knowledge of God,and calls himself a child of the Lord.
    14 14He became to us a reproof of our thoughts;
    15 15the very sight of him is a burden to us,because his manner of life is unlike that of others,and his ways are strange.
    16 16We are considered by him as something base,and he avoids our ways as unclean;he calls the last end of the righteous happy,and boasts that God is his father.
    17 17Let us see if his words are true,and let us test what will happen at the end of his life;
    18 18for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him,and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries.
    19 19Let us test him with insult and torture,that we may find out how gentle he is,and make trial of his forbearance.
    20 20Let us condemn him to a shameful death,for, according to what he says, he will be protected."
    21 21Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray,for their wickedness blinded them,
    22 22and they did not know the secret purposes of God,nor hope for the wages of holiness,nor discern the prize for blameless souls;
    23 for God created man for incorruption,and made him in the image of his own eternity,
    24 24but through the devil's envy death entered the world,and those who belong to his party experience it.

    Born by mere chance? Reason a spark kindled by the mere beating of our hearts?Accuses us of sins against our training? Training?

    Were these men not just as we have today?

    All I can say in conclusion is that I pray for men teaching these things. Especially to our children.
     
  3. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    A profound rebuttal to Fr James Martin 'Building Bridges' book:

    The True Language of Respect
    [​IMG] Trent Horn

    [​IMG]
    On a recent episode of Catholic Answers Live that invited callers to explain why they’re “pro-choice,” a few pro-life listeners told our call screener that they objected to our use of that term. They preferred we use the term pro-abortion, and some even accused me of making legal abortion sound more defensible by using the euphemism choice.

    In the short amount of time we had left on the show, I explained that by using my opponents’ preferred term I was able to have productive conversations—heard by thousands of other people—that might not have been possible if I had insisted on using pro-abortion. I added that although I generally do this, I don’t always do it. Sometimes it can do more harm than good and even distort the message I am trying to share.

    An example of this can be found in Fr. James Martin’s newest book, Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter Into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity. Although it offers some helpful suggestions for priests and bishops (and a few light admonishments of homosexual critics of the Church), there is no call for Catholics with same-sex attraction to “cross the bridge” and embrace God’s plan for their sexuality.

    Worse, even though he doesn't call explicitly for the Church to change its teaching on homosexuality, Fr. Martin does seem to suggest that it shouldchange—or at least become more ambiguous and malleable for those who want it to change. This is especially evident in his recommendations for how we talk about homosexual behavior and persons who are attracted to members of the same sex.

    On “gay Catholics”

    One of the book’s drawbacks is that there is no clear articulation of the Church’s teaching on homosexual behavior. Fr. Martin repeatedly cites the Catechism’s insistence that people with deep-seated homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity” (2358), but he never cites the preceding paragraph, which says that homosexual acts represent “grave depravity,” “are contrary to the natural law,” and that “under no circumstances can they be approved” (2357). In fact, Fr. Martin says it is wrong to say homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.”


    Concerning the use of labels like “LGBT Catholics,” I could see where, in a private setting, one might use such terms in order to facilitate a conversation. But even in such a case I would always try to not reduce a person’s identity to his sexual attractions, and I would especially not promote the idea one can be an “LGBT Catholic” through a public venue like blogging or radio appearances. That’s because such actions can confuse people and make them think the Church has no moral opposition to homosexual behavior, or that one can be an “LGBT Catholic” in the same way one can be an “Irish Catholic.”

    In his book’s rebuttal to Catholics who do not agree with using such labels, Fr. Martin offers this argument:

    Some Catholics have objected to this approach, saying that any outreach implies a tacit agreement with everything that anyone in the LGBT community says or does. This seems an unfair objection, because it is raised with virtually no other group. If a diocese sponsors, for example, an outreach group for Catholic business leaders, it does not mean that the diocese agrees with every value of corporate America.

    The problem with this argument is that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the concept of “business.” There are immoral businesses, but the idea of business or commerce itself is not wrong. A better comparison for the label “LGBT Catholic” would be “pornographer Catholic,” or “polygamous Catholic.” Moreover, the “LGBT” labels reduce a person to his sexual behavior, which would be dehumanizing even if that behavior weren’t disordered. A person should be defined by his vocation and status as a child of God, not by his sexual proclivities.

    But, says Fr. Martin, simple respect means we should use the labels people choose for themselves. He writes, “[R]espect means calling a group what it asks to be called. On a personal level, if someone says to you, ‘I prefer to be called Jim instead of James,’ you would normally listen and call him by the name he prefers. It’s common courtesy.”

    This is a bad comparison. Using a variant of someone’s name does not reinforce the mistaken idea that a disordered action is an essential part of that person’s identity. Sometimes respecting someone means not following his wishes, if following them would cause him harm.

    Likewise if his request were dishonest. For example, I do not refer to people who received Ph.D.s from unaccredited universities with the title “Dr.” That kind of person hasn’t properly earned that title, and to refer to him that way would involve propagating a lie and cheapening academic degrees in general. In the same way, if I consistently referred to someone as a “gay Catholic,” I would be telling a lie about that person, reducing his identity to a disordered desire. I would have also conjoined the person’s Catholic faith with a serious sin. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith puts it this way:

    The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a "heterosexual" or a "homosexual" and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.

    [...]
     
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  4. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    [...]

    On “intrinsically disordered”

    According to Fr. Martin, “Saying that one of the deepest parts of a person—the part that gives and receives love—is ‘disordered’ in itself is needlessly cruel” (47). In an interview with the Religion News Service, Fr. Martin suggested instead that “the phrase ‘differently ordered’ might convey that idea more pastorally.”

    I would argue instead that this expression conveys the idea more ambiguously and is not a sound pastoral approach to homosexuality. If a friend is constructing a barbecue grill and has placed the flame jets so they shoot at his knees instead of the food, you wouldn’t tell him the grill had been “differently assembled.” For the sake of his health you would tell him that he’s using the grill wrong and should stop what he’s doing.

    If we love someone with same-sex attraction, we will correct him and urge him to conversion when he engages in behavior that is destructive to body and soul.

    Some people think that pastoral means “nice” or “friendly,” but the word’s roots are related to shepherding. Along with being kind, shepherds have to be tough and fight predators that try to destroy his flock while assertively keeping the flock from going astray. The goal of pastoral outreach is to lead someone to Christ; and a person can’t be led to a joyful relationship with Christ if he places a disordered desire at the center of his identity instead of his relationship to God.

    To conclude, I’d like to quote Daniel Mattson, a gentleman who is attracted to people of the same sex but refuses to let this define him. (See his recent book, Why I Don't Call Myself Gay: How I Reclaimed My Sexual Reality and Found Peace.) Concerning the CDF quote I referenced earlier, he adds:

    With confidence in the Church, I embrace this teaching about my identity in the same way that I have accepted the word “consubstantial” in the Creed. I accept all of the words of the Catechism concerning who I am in nature and in grace. I take no umbrage at the phrase “ objectively disordered” and feel no shame that it truthfully describes my sexual desires. I view my same-sex attraction as a disability, in some ways similar to blindness, or deafness, and I view it with the same hope communicated by Jesus about the man born blind: It has been allowed in my life, so that God’s work would be made manifest in me (cf. John 9:3) . . .

    The gay community will become family when those of us in the Church who live with the inclination accept it for what it truly is: a deep wound within our persons which we joyfully choose to unite with the Suffering Christ, on behalf of those we love so dearly in the gay community. By his wounds we are healed, and by the acceptance and transformation of our wounds, through the love of Christ, the Holy Spirit will draw them home to their Heavenly Father.
     
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  5. BrigidK

    BrigidK New Member

    Prayers for Fr. James Martin. Imagine a priest leading his flock astray in such a manner. His soul is in jeopardy!
     
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  6. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Yes Brigid he is a dissenting priest and should be defrocked! Why he has not been is scandalous!

    Imagine if a so called priest wrote that book just twenty years ago! He would have been unceremoniously sent on his way, because as Catholics their was a limit to what rubbish we were expected to swallow!

    He needs our prayers and so do the poor people he is influencing. Lord have Mercy.
     
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  7. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Cardinal Marx has recently suggested the Church should apologize to 'gay' people for marginalizing them. (By the way, he also just said we as catholics should happy that gay marriage was approved in Germany - he is a member of the G8 Pope's Committee - the poor cardinal has totally lost it, his diocese just had one person sign up to the seminary this year, let's pray for him).

    Here is a response from a homosexual person:

    From gay to Catholic brother: Dear Church, you owe me no apology
    Aids , Catholic , Homosexuality

    Dear Catholic Church,

    As a former homosexual man who came back to the church seeking God, I want you to know that you owe me no apology. Never, not once in my 43 years in the homosexual lifestyle did I feel marginalized by the church. The church never abandoned me. I abandoned the church. Never did I feel like an outcast. It was I who outcast myself. Not once did I feel jilted by the church or as if I had no place. Your door was always open to me. It was I who walked past that door.

    You need to know that there was not one day in my 43 years that I did not recognize how offensive my behavior was to God. Looking back, I can honestly say that the wedge that I placed between God and myself was one of my greatest sufferings. What kept me away from the church was my stupidity and guilt. You gave me the truth and I rejected that truth.

    How could this have happened? Very simple. I used the excuse card. Insisting I had no self-control over my sinfulness. I reverted into a mindset that maybe, just maybe a loving God is okay with me. Whatever the actual reason, I found it all far much easier to tuck all my guilt into the far corner of my conscience. And so for 43 years all that sin and guilt remained unrepentant and cluttered with dust.

    You owe me no apology. It was I who offended God, His church and His teachings. You did your part. You proclaimed the truth in charity and I ignored you. I own and take full responsibility and accountability for my sinful ways. It was I who rejected the many crosses that God gave me. It was I who faced my demons. It was I who rejected the salvation you offered me.

    Throughout my 43 years away from the church, God gave me one cross after another and I rejected all of them. It was only until 2008 when I contracted AIDS that the floodgates of my conscience opened. It was that day when I realized how much I needed you. It was time for me to drag all my dusty sinfulness through that open door that had been open to me for so many years.

    Thank you for being there for me. Thank you for giving me the courage to proclaim what you had been teaching me all along. You don't owe me. I owe you.

    You see, the church does not owe homosexuals an apology. The door is open. Accept the truth in charity and know that God will always help you carry your cross. Pick up your cross as I did. God is waiting. Do not be afraid. The church is not your enemy.

    I am old now and battered with health issues. Barely able to carry my cross. But I am where I want to be. Close to God, close to His church and cherishing the truth that I rejected for so many years.
    The church, however, must apologize for their pro-homosexual priests and bishops who are placing the souls of homosexuals in grave danger for failing to give them the truth in Gospel.

    In Christ,

    Br. Christopher Sale
    Founder of the Brothers of Padre Pio
     
    Totus tuus, sterph, AED and 6 others like this.
  8. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Thanks for posting this, Jarg.
    I especially like this line:
    The church, however, must apologize for their pro-homosexual priests and bishops who are placing the souls of homosexuals in grave danger for failing to give them the truth in Gospel.
     
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  9. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Garabandal they really can't force us out of the Church, because they have become squatters in the church and like a squatter that lives in your home, they seem to have some sort of legal rights because they were initally invited in!

    And just like squatters in your home, they start changing things and fouling up all you hold dear but it seems the owners have no way of getting them out!

    The laws that govern squatting in Australia are really strange and really maddening....essentially the squatter can take up residence in your home and once you have asked them to leave, they and you are given a time limit, if they do not move! Very scary!

    After this time limit [and sometimes it takes years], the matter is heard in court!, where each side is to give evidence of ownership and produce documents etc, in fact the longer the squatter has squatted, it gives them more legal rights to assume ownership! because apparently possession is considered as 9/10ths of the law!

    So the thing to do, is to remain in the home and continue as always, even though you have to put up with the squatters rubbish and suffer their inordinate ways! In this way, when the day in court comes, the squatters can't claim possession as 9/10ths of the law; because you have also been in possession!

    I think the squatters in our church want us out! so they can claim possession of the church!

    We must never leave our Holy Catholic Church to these squatters.

    We must remain in the Church and continue to clean the filth they leave on the shutters and throughout the house, no matter what the neighbours think!
     
    Texas Mama of 2, AED, gracia and 4 others like this.
  10. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    The Real Bridge for ‘LGBT’ Catholics: The Catechism

    Daniel Mattson, author of Why I Don’t Call Myself Gay, tells the Register how he found freedom, peace and joy by living according to Church teaching.

    Judy Roberts
    Born the year the “gay-rights” movement was birthed at the Stonewall Inn in New York’s Greenwich Village, Daniel Mattson went on to live a life that he said has been pulled between two competing views of mankind and two visions of happiness and freedom.

    In Why I Don’t Call Myself Gay, a new book from Ignatius Press, Mattson tells about the struggle that led him, as a same-sex-attracted man, to find life in the teachings of the Catholic Church. He talks here with Register correspondent Judy Roberts.

    Many people have heard your story in the 2014 documentary film Desire of the Everlasting Hillsand through your articles and talks. You’ve also reflected on your experience through journal writing and poetry, excerpts of which are in your book. When did you begin to think about developing your story into a book?

    The seeds of this were back in 2008. I was kind of just blogging for myself and wrestling with some of these things, and I really had a transformative moment when I started to view my life through the lens of redemptive suffering. So I thought, “I need to start writing my thoughts about this.” I ended up starting a blog, Letters to Christopher, and that kind of got spread around a bit. Then, after Desire of the Everlasting Hills came out, Father Paul Check [then executive director of Courage International] made an introduction to the folks at Ignatius Press, and we met in their offices and started talking about a book.

    You’ve said that the book is your answer to a call for help expressed by a 19-year-old same-sex-attracted man who commented on your 2012 article in First Things, “Why I Don’t Call Myself a Gay Christian,” and your wish that you could have read something like this when you were 19. Why is that?

    I think it was such a poignant cry for help from this man who loves Jesus but didn’t know how to live his life as a faithful believer and follower of Jesus with these attractions to men. He said, “I’m not going to marry, and I’m not going to do what the world says, but how do I live my life?” It really made me think of myself when I was wrestling with these questions as a teenager.

    Your book is being released around the same time as Jesuit Father James Martin’s book, Building a Bridge, which proposes bringing the Church hierarchy and the “LGBT” community together in part by getting the cardinals, archbishops and bishops to listen to the stories of same-sex-attracted men and women. Do you think the hierarchy needs to get to know and hear from them?

    The bishops need to listen to those with same-sex attraction who have crossed the bridge and find out what has helped them. For me, the bridge that I really need is out of the three paragraphs on homosexuality in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The bridge is the cross, and the path to the bridge is conversion and repentance. To cross the bridge requires of the “LGBT” community repentance and conversion. It’s just like the woman caught in adultery. Yes, Jesus was compassionate and sensitive to her, but he said, “Go and sin no more.” If you’re not willing to pay that toll — a costly toll — you’re not going to bridge the gap between the two communities. It’s also the path to joy and peace. The problem that I see with Father Martin is he doesn’t seem to believe that a bridge exists — and it has existed since Christ came.

    Quoting the Catechism, Father Martin also stresses the need for treating those who experience same-sex attraction with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Is this enough? And have you experienced respect, compassion and sensitivity from the Church?

    By not calling those folks in the “LGBT” community to conversion, Father Martin is not respecting them enough, nor is his version of respect, compassion and sensitivity compassionate enough. Does he really believe that the Church’s understanding of human sexuality honors and respects human dignity? It seems he questions that.

    I came into the Church precisely because of the Church’s teaching on homosexuality in its fullness and completeness — because it was the only thing that made sense of who I am as a son of God. As far as respect, compassion and sensitivity, the times when I have received a lack of respect and true compassion were in the confessional, when a priest told me to go find a boyfriend. That’s where I have experienced lack of respect and lack of compassion, because it was rooted not in sensitivity, but in sentimentality.

    What do you say to those who think the Church is keeping gay people from a fulfilled life with its “rules” about homosexual sexual acts?

    The Church’s “No” to me is a “Yes” to my fundamental dignity as a son or daughter of God — and this is the true good news for those who call themselves “gay,” “lesbian” or whatever. No one honors the dignity of those in the “gay” community more than the Catholic Church does.

    In the book, you say that central to your thesis is that it is a mistake for anyone to say he or she is “gay, lesbian, or any other sexual-identity label currently in vogue.” Why do you object to these labels, which some, including Father Martin, insist the Church should use?

    Once again, out of respect for people in their true identity as beloved children of God, we should avoid those labels. They are very limiting labels.

    I find that we’ve divided the world based on words that are rooted in feelings, not what is objectively true. The second point is: Father Martin in his book says that respect means using the names that the “LGBT community” has chosen for themselves, and he uses examples in the Bible where names are important, where Abram was changed to Abraham and Saul to Paul.

    Here’s where he gets this wrong. When God has given a name to something, we don’t have the right or authority to do it the way we want to do it. God gave names to human sexuality, and we are male or female.

    We don’t have the right to rename. When we do, we are like a modern Tower of Babel: “Come, let us make a name for ourselves.” To reject the name God gave us is idolatry and rebellion against God.

    Some say the Church’s characterization of homosexuality as “objectively disordered” is hurtful to those with same-sex attraction and their families. One theologian has even suggested the Church might change the wording to “differently ordered.” You make the point in your book that words are important. How did you respond to these words before and after your return to the Church in 2009? Did you think they meant you were disordered?

    That word “disordered” falls hard on the ears. But anyone who reads those three paragraphs in the Catechism and really wrestles with this can see the language is not talking about the person, but about the behavior or the inclination. I think a lot of people read that with the desire to discredit the Church’s teaching and don’t honestly reflect what the Church is saying.

    For me, that language is vitally important for my moral safety. I need those hard words for a safety measure for me and my soul. Thanks be to God that the Catholic Church says to me that to behave in a sexual manner with another man is intrinsically disordered. They respect me enough and have enough compassion for me to tell me the truth — like the warning signs at the edge of the Grand Canyon that say if you step farther, you will die. To say “differently ordered” is a slippery slope to approving behavior that will lead us away from God.


     
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  11. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    ...continued from previous post

    You talk in the book about how certain events of your life became the seedbed of your attractions to men. Do you think that is the case for most people who experience attraction to the same sex, rather than that they are born that way?

    We live in a cause-and-effect world, and the Church wisely says and teaches and understands that, as the Catechism says, this has a psychological genesis. This is within the realm of wounds within the psyche. There is no scientific proof that homosexuality is innate to biology. We don’t understand it fully or completely, but the Church is clear in its understanding of the human person that this is a departure from the norm.

    Father Martin, who has said he thinks we were born this way, needs to go back and read Veritatis Splendor, which says the behavioral sciences can be helpful, but the more primal truth about the human person transcends the human sciences.

    That is the great wisdom of the Church: We are male and female and made for the other with beautiful complementarity. Wherever [same-sex attraction] comes from, it’s a privation of a good, and we should not view it as normal or healthy for us.

    What would you advise someone — especially a teenager — who is experiencing same-sex attractions to do when he or she is being urged by the culture not to go against his or her “nature”? You mention in the book, for instance, a Catholic high-school student who asked you if he was gay because he had attractions to the same sex. How did you answer him?

    I was able to tell that man feelings are important, of course, but they’re not a reliable gauge of reality, nor do we have to act on all our feelings or desires or attractions. I would also say that we have a great need in the Church to minister to that fellow. We need to really have confidence in our Catholic high schools. We need teachers who believe the Church’s vision of human sexuality is true and beautiful and will support and talk about it with respect, compassion and sensitivity. We have to talk about this vision of humanity and human sexuality in our parishes, youth groups and Catholic high schools, but we also have to give a sense of hope to this young person, that if he is same-sex attracted, his life will not be marred by despair or loneliness.

    How did the Catholic concept of redemptive suffering lead to your own liberation? Is that a message people immersed in the homosexual lifestyle today could hear?

    If someone is living out a same-sex relationship right now, it probably wouldn’t make sense to them. I think redemptive suffering can make sense to people when their lives and living away from God kind of fall apart. And lives outside God’s plan will always fall apart.

    For me, it happened when I just realized that the world’s vision of sexual freedom and liberation did not make me happy the way I wanted it to make me happy. I thought, “If there’s a loving God, why is he allowing me to go through this stuff?” I began trying to find answers for the suffering of living on this side of heaven, or, just in general, “Why is there so much suffering in the world?” It really drew me to the beauty of being able to unite that suffering with the cross.

    To me, that is the most beautiful part of the Catechism’s treatment of homosexuality: that same-sex-attracted people are invited to bring their suffering to the cross. It’s a truly hopeful message the Church has given me, and my life is far happier now than it was before.

    You caution people against believing that those who are in same-sex sexual relationships don’t feel happy. How is it possible to reach such people with the truth about such relationships if they are indeed “happy” in them?

    You reach them the way Christ did. He’s always sharing a meal with someone. When he meets the woman at the well, they’re both thirsty. You just stay in their lives and love them and engage with them — and this is where the Catechism’s treatment of people with respect, compassion and sensitivity comes in. Love them and get to know them and wait for the Holy Spirit to make an invitation.

    I don’t make a point when hanging out with “gay” friends to talk about the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. I wait for them to bring it up, and it happens. You stay in relationship; you love them. When it comes up, you can talk about the Church’s vision of human sexuality and particularly how it has helped you. Live out your lives. Then leave it up to the Holy Spirit. We feel this tremendous burden to reach the lost, and it’s a good burden, a good calling, but we have to be patient with the Holy Spirit and live in relationship with people and just love them.

    How has Pope Francis contributed to the conversation about homosexuality in the Church today? Some have taken his now-famous “Who am I to judge?” comment, for example, as an indication that the Church already is changing its thinking about same-sex-attracted people.

    What I would say is what has happened to Pope Francis is that he has been selectively quoted to pursue aims he would never be in support of. “Who am I to judge?” has been totally taken out of context because everybody ignores one of the preambles — “if someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has goodwill.” Then, in the same interview, he said, “I still haven’t found anyone with an identity card in the Vatican with ‘gay’ on it.” Nobody’s ever talked about that. He’s so clear about what our identity card is.

    I think Pope Francis’ words in this area have been manipulated to say what people want him to say rather than what he has actually said.

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-real-bridge-for-lgbt-catholics-the-catechism
     
    Rose, josephite, gracia and 1 other person like this.
  12. gracia

    gracia Angels

    Desire is desire. Lust is lust. Lust and desire are not physical parts of our being. They are feelings that we can and must say "no" to in Christ. Catholic leaders are sounding more and more like Anglicans and Lutherans by the day. We can not let our desires take over, and expect to enter Christ's Kingdom.
     
    Don_D, josephite, AED and 2 others like this.
  13. gracia

    gracia Angels

    Jarg, that is an excellent article. Thank you.
     
    Rose and josephite like this.
  14. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    There is indeed so much to gain from it. I love the second to last question-answer, it is an example of true accompanying and apostalote that hopes and aims for the conversion of the other. Very different from the accompanying that falsely invites people to 'accept who they are' and that is ok with with their way of live because 'God is merciful and he cares only about love' and therefore they can continue to live as they do. That is sadly how some interpret Amorits Laetitia and not only with remarried divorcees...

    Homosexual converts seem to me are making the most amazing witnesses of the True Faith in our times - the Church/we need them to respond appropriately to the gender madness that continues to advance.
     
    AED, Rose, gracia and 1 other person like this.
  15. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I don´t always agree with Michael Voris but this I think is worth watching.

    It´s absolutely amazing how these men are given a free pass to spread their agenda and reach so many young minds. The damage they are doing is incalculable.

     
    SgCatholic and Jonah like this.
  16. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    That was painful to watch but thanks for sharing - the apostasy advance so rapidly!

    "Many cardinals, many bishops, and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them."
     
    Blizzard, SgCatholic, AED and 2 others like this.
  17. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    https://twitter.com/JamesMartinSJ/status/898626809033609216

    Father James Martin SJ promotes PFLAG, an organization that supports children's homosexuality and transsexuality.

    PFLAGwebiste:
    "Family support and acceptance is critical to the health and wellbeing of people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer...and PFLAG has been at the forefront of this work for over four decades. Find out more about how we have been supporting thousands of families across the country and around the world, and the ways in which we can provide that support to your family."
    ---

    I really don't know what can we do besides praying to mitigate the incredible damage this priest is causing to the Church, and specially to homosexual people, by confirming them in their sinful behavior. He is one of he new Vatican communication consultants.

    Please pray that Our Lord may convert this man and stop him soon from continuing the damage.
     
    AED, Don_D and Mary's child like this.
  18. Mary's child

    Mary's child Archangels

    :( The crevice is getting deeper. Mary Queen of Peace pray with us for the immediate conversion of your priest sons.
    Thank you Jarg for reminding us.
     
    AED likes this.
  19. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    In my view these men need to be exposed for the faithful to see exactly what the facade of their work truly represents. Much like the way planned parenthood was exposed in the lead up to the election.

    These groups simply redefine these sins and cloak them in relativism. This makes them more palatable to not only the person experiencing these things but also to the families and friends who suffer knowing that their loved ones are heading toward perdition.

    This however will further erode the Church itself which now seems to be intimately entwined in these teachings. Otherwise these men would never have come to their stations.

    The truth however hard to endure will eventually come to light. God will see to it I am convinced of that.
     
    AED likes this.
  20. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    This is very good sign ! A ‘gay’ adolescent is ‘crushing the head’ of Fr. James Martin musings on Twitter and you can follow her here https://mobile.twitter.com/diary476

    You're Hurting Me, Fr. James Martin

    October 10, 2017
    Avera Maria Santo

    Please, Fr. James, know that this is not me attacking you. I just want to be open, and share my story and my heart with you.



    I wanted to make something actually directed towards you, in hopes that you might read it, and that you might consider some of the things that I have to say.



    Maybe I'm young, maybe I'm not that smart, but I live with this. I live with SSA every day, and every day is a fight.

    I know that you care about your flock, and I know that you care deeply about the LGBTQ+ community.

    I know that you want to do good things, but if I'm being honest, Fr. James, I don't think all that you're doing and saying is helping us.



    You're hurting me, Fr. James.



    [​IMG]

    I find myself standing on this bridge that you wanted to build with your book, but it's collapsing under me. It's falling under the weight of all that I know to be true, under the goodness, the truth, and the beauty of the true Catholic Church and her teachings.

    I understand what you wanted to do with this book, but I cannot agree with all that you have said.



    There's a lot that I could go over, but I want to focus on one element in particular, the call of persons with same-sex attractions to chastity and holiness.


    Above all, I am a person, not a homosexual person.

    There are only three kinds of persons: Divine, Angelic, and Human. The human person cannot be reduced to his or her experience. My identity is a beloved daughter of God, and can't be lowered to anything else.



    Because of my nature as a human person, I am God's Creation, and His alone. God made me for Himself, and calls me to draw near to Him in this life so that I may remain with Him forever in the next.



    In order to remain with God, I must follow His commands, and the teachings of His Bride, the Holy Catholic Church. If I'm going to follow those rules set out for me, I have to know what they are. What they really are. No watered down version of the faith is going to get me to Heaven.



    I feel as though you're hesitant to say that acting on same-sex desires is wrong. It is inherently wrong, Father. God's design for conjugal love does not include the joining of man-and-man or woman-and-woman. It simply does not work.



    Marriage is not a man made invention, and therefore is not ours to define. God intended marriage to be between one man and one woman, even the design of the human anatomy can attest to that! If we begin to deny this truth, we lose sight of who we are.

    There's an identity crisis ravaging the LGBTQ+ community right now because we base our identities on who we're emotionally and/or sexually attracted to. We are so much more than that!



    Calling my sexual desires "objectively disordered" is not "needlessly cruel." If I desire something that is not going to contribute to my holiness, then it needs to go unfulfilled. I cannot understand and bring to fulfillment God's plan for me by "satisfying" a desire that can lead to my demise. We all have desires that shouldn't go fulfilled; we all what things that we can't have. Me being able to sleep with a woman is no different than that. It's not cruel, it's what I need to hear, it is the truth.


    Show me respect by reminding me and my brothers and sisters who we are, and all that we are called to be.



    Call me what I am. Call me a child of God, loved by God, and called to greatness beyond my comprehension. See my value and my worth as a human person, and don't reduce me to an experience.





    Show me compassion by walking with me and calling me to holiness, because holiness is for everybody.



    You talk about how people with SSA are "unjustly discriminated against" in many ways. This is true. But I dare to say that feeding us a watered down version of the Gospel counts as unjust discrimination as well.

    Call me to chastity and sanctity. Tell me that I can fight, and I am strong enough to carry my cross.

    Insinuating that I need to have the rules bent for me, that I somehow just can't help acting on my desires, tells me that I am not capable of the same holiness as my brothers and sisters without SSA. It tells me that God doesn't love me enough to give me the grace and the strength to carry my cross with dignity, bravery, and courage.

    Christ died for me. He told me to pick up my cross and carry it after Him. He is going to give me the strength to get to Calvary, and eventually Heaven.



    Show me sensitivity by encountering me with authentic love, the same love that Christ would show me.



    Know that in our hearts of hearts, inside our holy of holies, we want God. He made us for Himself, and He want us to go back to Him.

    Show us His Face in your ministry, in the way that you love us, in the way that you encounter us. Please tell us what He would say, Father. Please tell us the truth, and walk with us on that road back to the one whom our soul loves.


    I have had too many people try to preach the Gospel to me while leaving out the Cross. The Cross, the struggle, the suffering cannot be left out. Easter did not come without Good Friday, and we cannot get to Heaven without first fighting for it on earth.



    The saints in Heaven fought for holiness while they were on earth. We cannot get to Heaven without a fight.

    Do not try to make the fight easier for me, Fr. James, come with me, battle with me, and make me stronger.



    I firmly believe that the next great saint of our age will be someone who lived with same-sex attractions.



    We are called to holiness too, Father.

    Please, do not drown out that beautiful call.
     

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