Apparitions, Prohesies, The signs of the Times and the Futur

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by padraig, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I noticed in some of the last few apparitions of Our Blessed Lady at Medugorje , she asked us to consider 'The Signs of the Times. Reflecting the words of her Divine Son in the Gospels.

    The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven. He replied, "When evening comes, you say, `It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,' and in the morning, `Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away. (Matthew 16:1-4)

    Saint Paul however balances this by saying:



    "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come..." (2 Thess 2:1-2)


    {Its going to take me a few days to get through posting on this as I have been praying and thinking about this for quite some time now, but you're quite welcome to chip in thoughts or points of your own or criticisms, whatever. I don't claim to be perfectly clear about all this myself, I'm still praying on this].

    Now I am talking of Catholics here of those who belong to the One True Church. Not of unbelievers and those without the fullness of the faith. I do not speak of them for the subject would be too wide.

    The Church teaches that we do not , as Catholics have to believe in apparitions or visions. Even the very greatest of them, such as that of the Sacred Heart or those of Divine Mercy, Lourdes or Fatima. As Catholics we can walk past them as irrelevant or meaningless or incredible if we choose. However take for a minute the apparitions of the Sacred Heart to Saint Margaret Mary Alocoque and gaze at the picture of the Sacred Heart.

    [​IMG]


    Oh well off to work, write more later....................
     
  2. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Padraig,
    This has special meaning for me today as I have just today completed my 9 first fridays.
    I leave the dispensation of any graces gained to Our Lady. I see where she asked us to pray and fast for our shepherds, so I am doing something small today.
    I feel it is significant that she requests prayers for our shepherds at this time.
    It is good to contemplate 'The sign of the times' and I look forward to your insights and the insights of others also.

    God bless
    Mary
     
  3. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Padraig,

    Hope it is OK for me to chime in here.

    67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
    --Catechism of the Catholic Church


    So when Our Lady speaks of the signs of the times, these signs are a call for us to live more fully in this our time.

    Beautiful picture of the Sacred Heart.

    Darrell
     
  4. darrell

    darrell New Member

    67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history . Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
    --Catechism of the Catholic Church

    So when Our Lady asks us to recognize the signs of our times, it is to help us to live more fully in this our time.

    Darrell
     
  5. darrell

    darrell New Member

    67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history . Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
    --Catechism of the Catholic Church

    So when Our Lady asks us to recognize the signs of our times, it is to help us to live more fully in this our time.

    Darrell
     
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Mary, I love the promises of the Sacred Heart:

    The Promises of the Sacred Heart of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

    1. "I will give them all the graces necessary in their state of life."
    2. "I will establish peace in their homes."
    3. "I will comfort them in their afflictions."
    4. "I will be their secure refuge during life, and above all in death."
    5. "I will bestow a large blessing upon all their undertakings."
    6. "Sinners shall find in My Heart the source and the infinite ocean of mercy."
    7. "Tepid souls shall grow fervent."
    8. "Fervent souls shall quickly mount to high perfection."
    9. "I will bless every place where a picture of My Heart shall be set up and honored."
    10. "I will give to priests the gift of touching the most hardened hearts."
    11. "Those who shall promote this devotion shall have their names written in My Heart, never to be blotted out."
    12. "I promise thee in the excessive mercy of My Heart that My all-powerful love will grant to all those who communicate on the First Friday in nine consecutive months, the grace of final penitence; they shall not die in My disgrace nor without receiving the Sacraments; My Divine heart shall be their safe refuge in this last moment."


    also the nine Saturdays to Our Lady and the Promises of the Rosary. I'd never thought of applying them to others, what a good idea!!

    I notice in other forums folks seem to be searching over these things and its true the times seem to be drawing closer...
     
  7. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes Darrel I agree with what you say. When the Holy Office sends out a theologian to test the worth of a particular vision one of the main qualifications is that it sheds new light on a particular subject. For instance Saint Faustina sheds light on the Divine Mercy of God, the Sacred Heart on God's love for us. But if an apparition simply says something like, 'Angels exist' they will leave it alone because well we already know angels exist.
    Anyway as I was saying about the Sacred Heart folks can as Catholics walk past Devotion to the Sacred Heart or even not simply believe in it. But on the other hand it would worry me very much if they did. It seems so wonderful and is so much a part of our Catholic culture. If someone was to say to me, 'I don't believe in any apparitions, or visions or prophesy outside scripture and I believe that after the Apostles all such things ceased', it would seem to me to cut so very hardly into our Catholic spirituality., our Catholic historical experience and way of life as to seem to me incredible. But some people even go further and question Christ's miracles themselves.

    I think that this is key to understanding why many Catholics have a disdain to the very idea of visions or prophesy. Its because the very idea of the supernatural is often abhorent to them. But this distrust for the miraculous and the supernatural, the mystical goes much further than the outright supernatural it even effects their view of the everyday/ For instance Mother Teresa of Calcutta was asked one time why she took care of the dying. If it would not have been better to take care of the young rather than those who were going to die anyway. Mother Teresa pointed out that she was not simply a social worker she was working through and in and for love and that in doing so she was doing so at the behest of God. It is very,very clear from her letters to her Spiritual Director and her Archbishop that she initiated this work at the express orders of Our Divine Lord. Not only orders but detailed orders , a battle plan if you like. This is not humanism , this work is clearly then mystical and supernatural in origin and in how it was carried out. The overflowing of love, which is what all mystical experience should be.

    Go to any other saint and try to amputate the supernatural, the mystical component and you will be left with nothing. For the centre of their action, that which drove and empowered them is the mystical the supernatural....and the most amazing and astonishing thing of all is that God actually exists and He became incarnate as a man , born of a virgin.


    So it does not seem reasonable to me that a Catholic should have a block as far as the supernatural or mystical is concerned, it makes me very uneasy, especially if it is a priest, nun or religious has this. I really wonder where such an attitude comes from..It reminds me of Jesus and the attitude of some Jewish folks when He tries to talk to them of the Eucharist: Jn 6:53 "Unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of man and drink His Blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life." The Jews who heard this said, Jn 6:60 "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"

    [​IMG]

    This, of course is no accident since the Eucharist is profoundly mystical and supernatural.
     
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I will come back to the Sacred Heart in a minute , as it is a very good example ,very famous and approved by the Church.

    But lets go to the other extreme. Those people whose whole lives are dominated by an unhealthy interest in visions and prophesies to such an extent that there whole spiritual life is centered on such occurrences and run from one to another analsysing them and living a life of fearful excitement to such a gross extent that they neglect the ordinary basis of the Spiritual life such as the Sacraments , the mass, prayer, fasting and the Word of God. Rather like people who neglect to eat bread, meat and vegetables but are determined to eat cake only for the rest of their days that that which is the sustaining heavenly food...
    I read of one young man who converted from Protestantism and was so enamoured of visions and prophesies that he almost lost his new found faith. I think , too you find an example of this in the New testament with John the Baptist when the Sadducees and Pharisees came to him to be baptised:

    Matthew 3:7


    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


    For these smakes were seeing the truth that there was a prophet before them through the back door rather than through the front door of living good and prayerful lives and as St Paul says:

    1 Corinthians 2:15
    But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.


    It was only when the young convert went back to the basics of Catholic practice that he refound his faith

    [​IMG]
     
  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I'm away to mass, I will be writing more on balance in looking at the supernatural, discernment of the false, the signs of the times and looking into the future and what mmary is telling us.....as I go along, it will take a while.
     
  10. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Sorry about the repeated posts--I kept getting some kind of error earlier when I was trying to post.

    "So it does not seem reasonable to me that a Catholic should have a block as far as the supernatural or mystical is concerned, it makes me very uneasy, especially if it is a priest, nun or religious has this. I really wonder where such an attitude comes from.."

    I know what you mean... After all, what kind of faith is a faith that doesn't believe in the supernatural?

    Darrell
     
  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes Darrell, one theologian wrote that the Church of the future will become more and more centred on mysticim. This will come more and more obvious as the Tribulation gets more fully underway.It is how the Church will survive. The Tribulation, of course has already begun.

    The world Anglican communion, which is presently breaking up in recrimination is an example of those who have buried the mystical and are praying the price. As times go on more and more folks from all religions will see the great light from Holy Mother Church and make their home there as The Triumph of Mary is realised, I pray all of you on this forum shall live to see this Triumph, I know I sall not , though please God I shall see it from heaven and most greatly rejoice. :D
     
  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Your attention, please!

    Dear Padraig,

    May I remind you that I'm not exactly in diapers at this stage of my life, so save a celestial ringside seat for me, if you please. O'Loughlins aren't noted for their longevity (a wild bunch we are), so I might as well enjoy the view with a good friend!

    In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes, I suppose thats true Terry !! I would expect the Tribulation to be relatively quick in terms of human history, but I doubt very much if it would be completed in, say less than fifty years, so I suppose unless we are fairly young its very unlikely to see the other side , in this world. I think one of the visionaries hinted at this in Medugorje when she mentioned she felt a compassion for the young.

    However hopefully we shall both get as you say a ringside seat in heaven please God...and all the better for it, I suppose as we shall be in great comfort with a better vision of whats going on, down below and have some interesting talks and walks and maybe even with the permission of God to lend a helping hand to the folks below. A wonderful thought.... :D

    [​IMG]
     
  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

    So there are two extremes at each end of the spectrum, those who close the door on the supernatural and so crush The leadings of the Holy Spirit and those who obsess about supernatural to the detriment of the Faith. I hasten to say I am mad keen about mystical phenomena myself and see no harm in taking a keen interest in them myself. But say a thousand glittering angels were to appear to me tonight and did not effect a spiritual betterment in me what good would it do? These things should bring spiritual fruit in our lives, if they don't well, its vain and useless.

    So I think a good example of balance in these things is in the example given by Maryrose. She looks at the apparitions of the Sacred Heart and bears fruit of it in her spiritual life. This is not only true of individuals but the Church as a whole, thus we have the Feast of the Sacred Heart, communion on the First Fridays, the observance of holy hours and a feast of reparation on the octave day of Corpus Christ and the propagation of pictures and statues of the Sacred heart and so on...

    But going back to these apparitions I think can see various texts and sub texts in the messages of the Sacred Heart. For the Universal Church it is a message of love, that God is crazily, madly in love with us so much indeed that his heart is on fire. However as well as this we can more 'hands on' sub texts. For instance it was aimed at undermining the heresy of Jansenism which corrupted France at that time. Jansenism , that killer of love, that emphasized original sin, human depravity, the necessity of divine grace, and predestination. The nuns at Port Royale were Jansenist and were described as ' Pure as angels and proud as the devil'. This because they thought to could please God by being perfect and lacking humility ignoring the workings and the need for grace.

    Another sub text to the messages, which modern folks neglect was to condemn King Louis and his court for practicing Black Magic, or Devil Worship.

    I mention this because it is very important to mention that true apparitions often contain direct practical, hands on instructions to do with the condition of the world and how we should remedy them .This is important because some people translate them into universal truths, which is fine and neglect the particular. For instance at Fatima Our Lady promoted the rosary but she also pointed to the grave dangers of Communism and how to fight it and also foretold the Second World War an even went so far as to speak of the Aurora Borealis of Northern Lights seen as far south as New York in 1939.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. vkallin

    vkallin New Member

    My Medjugorje Experience

    After reading your many posts on the apparitions, I felt that I needed to register and share my experience with you. As a cradle Catholic, I was simply going thru the motions till I retired in 2001. Out of curiosity, I joined a pilgrimage to Medjugorje to see what it was all about. I went with 8 women (the only male). I stayed in the home of one of the visionaires (Vicka), and she permitted our small group to sit in one of her daily apparitions. I was three feet from her during the event, and I have it all on video. I saw nothing...I felt nothing....I left the event thinking nothing had really happened. HOWEVER

    The next morning I got up at 5:00AM and climbed up Apparition Hill to the site of the first apparition and I attempted to say a rosary....I couldn't remember the names of the mysteries. I promised the Blessed Mother that I would learn. I came down the hill and went to confession for the first time in 20 years. I begin to study her messages intently, and I focused in on a message which said "I give you your 5 stones for your Goliath". These 5 weapons were as follows:

    1. A daily Rosary
    2. Mass and Communion as often as possible
    3. Monthly Confession
    4. Fasting on Wednesday and Fridays
    5. Read the Sacred Scriptures

    I did not own a Bible. I had to learn which one to buy (Douay-Reims). I read it cover to cover in 6 months. I joined a Bible Study Group. I now attend daily mass 3 times per week plus Sundays. I fast on Tuesdays and Fridays, and make confession every month. My life turned on a dime.....I could hardly believe it myself. My wife could not believe it at all. I now teach RCIA for potential new Catholics and take Communion to the sick twice per month. I have changed almost every dimesion of my life, and I have become very devoted to the Blessed Mother. In the last year, however, I began to sense that I was falling short of her expectations. After praying about it, I finally figured out that she wanted to lead me to Jesus, and I was hung up on her. So now, I am trying to refocus my thoughts and energies on Jesus, and what he has meant to my life.

    I have become an apparition junkie, as I search out every reported visionary and study the messages. I know that time for all of us is very short because the Blessed Mother has been warning us now for at least 100 years. My frustration level is very high, because no one seems to be listening. Even our priests.....even our Church. So I am enjoying your site, and the fact that there are at least a few other souls on earth "WHO GET IT".

    I don't think I have a great deal to add to your site, but I did want to share my experience. Keep up your good work.
     
  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Thanks very much for sharing your wonderful story, Vik. It points exactly to the power of the mystical to change lives.I also think that there are a lot of folk, even devout Catholics who turn their backs on the Signs of the Times. Its good to have you on the forum, I suspect you have a lot more to contribute than you think!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    This 'hands on' message can be of varying centrality to the prophesy of vision or apparition as a whole. The best example I can think of , of a solidly , 'Hands on ' message is that comment of Jesus to the ladies in Jerusalem when he was carrying His cross to Calvary.

    Luke 23:28
    But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.


    And also:

    Matthew 24:2

    Jesus said to them, "You see all these buildings, don't you? I can guarantee this truth: Not one of these stones will be left on top of another. Each one will be torn down."


    [​IMG]

    The early Church in Jerusalem took these words of Jesus very seriously indeed. So later it relocated on account of the prophesy by Jesus and so was unmolested during the great Jewish revolt and the Destruction of Jerusalem in 74AD by Vespasian under the Emperor Tiberius. If they had not heeded the prophesy they would have been annihilated.


    "Therefore says the Lord God, As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have give for the fire as fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I set my face against them." "Is this the city that men call 'the perfection of beauty, the joy of the whole earth?' The Lord has done that which he had devised; he has fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he has thrown down, and has not pity.. O wall of the daughter of Zion, let tears run down like a river day and night..."
    [Ezekiel 15, Lam. 2, 14, 92, 26, 15, 296, 306, 376, BD, 392, 402]


    'Outside the NT Eusebius, quoting Hegesippus, says

    The people of the church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Peraea which is called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ migrated from Jerusalem (EH III:5,1 ff).

    Epiphanius (Haereses XXIX:7; XXX:2; De Mesuris and Ponderibus XV:3) cites a similar tradition. Each writer specifically mentions Pella as the final destination of the refugees. Epiphanius traces the origin of later Christian groups in Decapolis and Coele-Syria, including the sects of the Nazarenes and of the Ebionites, to this flight from the Romans just before 70 C.E.

    On the basis of these statements it has been assumed that sometime before the final overthrow, some Jerusalem Christians, either in mass, small groups or as individuals, withdrew from the city to places of refuge, primarily in Transjordan. The exact time of this exodus has been variously placed just after the death of James, the Relative of Jesus (ca. 62 C.E. -- Lietzmann and Jocz), following the Jewish victory over Cestius Gallus (66/67 C.E. -- Weizsaecker, Elliott-Binns, and F.F. Bruce), or even later in the period following the temporary withdrawal of Vespasian to await developments in Rome (68/69 C.E. -- Harnack and Ehrhardt).

    Additional evidence suggests that following the war, Jerusalem and other Jewish Christians returned to the city and reorganized their fellowship. Talmudic and other Jewish sources indicate the presence of such groups throughout Palestine and the contempt and hatred directed toward them by their non-Christian countrymen. Eusebius and Epiphanius disagree about the size and importance of the post-war Jewish-Jerusalem Church. The former says that "there was a very important Church, composed of Jews, which existed until the siege of the city under Hadrian" (The Proof of the Gospel III:5,124[d]) and gives a list of bishops who reigned in the city during that time (EH V:5). Epiphanius (De Mesuris et Ponderibus IV) implies that there was little more than a struggling, '
     
  18. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Padraig
    An interesting point about the message of Jesus to St Margaret Mary he asked for France to be dedicated by the King to the Sacred Heart and he would protect France,
    this request was ignored by the King of France at the time, Almost exactly 100 years later the French Revolution broke out and the king and all the court of the time were washed away, before his execution the king concsecrated France but it was too late, In 1929 Jesus appeared to the last of the Fatima visionaries Lucy and He requested that Our lady's request to have Russia consecrated to the Immaculate heart be complied with and He said that like the King of France they would do it too late, As you have pointed out these visitations from heaven direct us on how to protect us from the prevailing evils. Unfortunately we probably have left thing too late but the promises of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate heart still hold good for the individuals who take up these devotions. I strongly recommend the devotion of first Friday and First Saturday to anybody who wishes to grow closer to Jesus and his Blessed Mother,

    Mary
     
  19. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I just found this excerpt on the visitation by Jesus to Lucia at Ranjo

    And so it is that at Rianjo, Our Lord tells them that option is not real. He says, “Make it known to My ministers, given they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My command, like him, they will follow him into misfortune.”

    The King of France was commanded by the Sacred Heart through St. Margaret Mary (she wasn't canonized until 1920, but she already had a reputation for holiness in her lifetime). The Sacred Heart appeared to her on June 17, 1689 and commanded that the King of France dedicate, consecrate the Kingdom of France; that the emblem of the Sacred Heart be put on the flag of France; that a public ceremony be held in the court of the King dedicating France to the Sacred Heart.

    We all know that in 1793 a later King of France, while in jail before his execution, tried to fulfill this command. But he could not do it because, by then, he was in jail. He made some private ceremony, but that is not what Our Lord wanted. He wanted a solemn public ceremony.

    For 100 years the Kings of France had been given their chance. The set time was over. On June 17, 1789, one hundred years later to the day, the King of France was stripped of his power; that is, de facto, the Third Estate declared itself the national assembly, declared itself superior to the King. Three weeks later, the King was imprisoned; and four years after that, he was executed, decapitated. He was not just decapitated, or injured, in some sort of accident — he was executed as if he were a criminal.

    Now what Our Lord told Sister Lucy, to make known to His ministers, is what, in fact, Cardinal Ratzinger and Archbishop Bertone made known to the ministers in the name of Our Lady of Fatima. You see, what they released as the Third Secret is in fact a picture of what will take place — I believe in the near future — unless the Pope and the bishops do the Consecration in time.

    There are only ten years left before 100 years have passed for the Message of Fatima. Will God give us as much time as the Kings of France had? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. There is a set time.

    As St. Alphonsus tells us in Scripture, “Everything is measured with God. There is a time after which the time of justice takes place.”

    “Make it known to My ministers, given they follow the example of the King of France, they will follow him into misfortune.” As St. Paul tells us in Sacred Scripture, all Scripture is inspired — to correct, to teach, to rebuke.

    Similarly, the historical fact that the Kings of France refused to obey the requests of the Sacred Heart is being used by God to teach a lesson today. It's being used as a teaching tool for the Pope and the bishops and the priests, to obey before it is too late for each of us or all of us.

    We are told, “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph.” That promise is absolute: “in the end”. Whether it be this Pope or the next Pope or the next Pope, one of them will finally do the Consecration.

    But woe to those who haven't done it in time, when they have had the opportunity. That is what Our Lord is saying at Rianjo — in a few words.

    Mary
     
  20. Rain

    Rain Powers

    Hi Maryrose: You're my teacher for the day--I didn't know that about the kings of France. That was so very interesting . . . sad, but interesting. As for Russia, didn't Pope John Paul II already do the consecrecation? My memory is fuzzy, but it seems like I read somewhere that Lucia verified that is was done properly.
     

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