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Apparitions at Lipa 1948

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by Julia, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I have read an article in Spirit Daily today saying Cardinal Muller has ?Nulled? the approval of the apparitions at Lipa by the Arch Bishop of Phillippines.

    What in the name of God are we supposed to think anymore. Are we supposed to wait for the next change by another Cardinal who can out rank the latest.

    Why would a German Bishop or Cardinal poke his nose into another Bishops decision. Are we supposed to ignore one and not the other. Surely those involved with Lipa have suffered enough. It breaks my heart.
    Mary Ann and davidtlig like this.
  2. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    Muller is the Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. I think he's the type who would dismiss most private revelation as quickly as it reached his desk. He's the one looking for ways to discourage the openness to Medjugorje. Probably why Pope Francis is more in tune with the opinions/advice of Cardinal Schonborn. Normally with private revelations it's the local Bishop's ruling that counts, who in this case, at least for the present, has more recently ruled in favor of Lipa. Now this magisterial authority is over-ruling him in favor of an earlier ruling which included a higher authority of the Church as well. Ha! What a merry go round! And we wonder why the faithful feel that those in the hierarchy are so out of touch with the local faithful in so many places. Fruits don't seem to matter much anymore esp. by those so removed from the little ones.
    Julia likes this.
  3. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    What is strange (and somewhat infuriating!) is that the item on Spirit Daily provides absolutely NO information about the supposed action of Cardinal Muller. There is just the heading and then old information about the approval of Lipa by Cardinal Arguelles.
    Julia and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  4. Peter B

    Peter B Powers

    Looking at the scanned document from Archbishop Arguelles at Spirit Daily, what we don't have is the full 16-paragraph text from the CDF. However, the lines quoted by Abp Arguelles already throw up a major question - where is the textual evidence for the CDF statement that the 1951 declaration was made on the authority of the Supreme Pontiff, not of the six bishops concerned, and therefore definitive? There may indeed be such documentation, but I haven't seen any: I cannot find any specific reference to the Pope in sources quoting the 1951 document, nor in its 2010 re-iteration.

    It is difficult to know exactly what is going on here. Is it a case of the re-assertion of central authority by the CDF against Abp Arguelles for having disregarded the 2010 decision? Or is there a sub-plot involved, e.g. opposition by some Cardinals to the campaign for the proclamation of the Fifth Marian Dogma, with which the Archbishop is associated?
  5. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    :cry: Immaculate Heart of Mary, Triumph and Reign.
    kathy k and Mary Ann like this.
  6. Harper

    Harper Guest

    Not to sound like Hillary Clinton, but at this point, what difference does it make? Whatever went into the decision on Lipa, it does not affect the duty of the faithful to abide by it. There will be no more promotion of these apparitions by clergy and laity, and no more studies of it. Frankly, it always gives me pause to see people rush to "explain" this or that decision by spinning "sub-plots." The nullification is like a Supreme Court ruling upholding an earlier ruling from a high court, and voiding a more recent ruling.

    I was always intrigued by the reports of images on rose petals connected to Lipa, but disconcerted that the nun at the center of the alleged apparition left religious life.
    Clare A and Dolours like this.
  7. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    This supposed apparition is new to me. Here's a link to the article in Spirit Daily:


    Reading the article, I don't see why Cardinal Muller is being cast as the villain. Cardinal Muller is merely re-affirming an official declaration of the Church, signed by the Pope, in 1951. Perhaps the current Arbishop was unaware of that decision when he gave the apparitions his approval. Reading his statement in the article, he appears to have accepted the decision made in 1951, so that should be an end to it.
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Yes, I failed to recognize the document from Archbishop Arguelles is the new information being posted by Spirit Daily. I had assumed it was the old letter from the Archbishop. Sorry folks. But, as you say Peter, this has a look of the CDF exerting its authority. The real question is not who has the most authority but what is the Truth!
  9. Harper

    Harper Guest

    Can you expand upon that, David? I'm not sure I understand the implications here.
  10. Bill Simpson

    Bill Simpson Guest

    No merry go round at all. Pope Francis by the way has at least on two occasions criticized those who go searching afer this and that visionary. Our Lady is not a postman delivering messages every day he said. Obedience is the key. If Cardinal Muller looked on this forum he would be shutting down a hell of alot more sites judging by the influence they have on attitudes to authority and where the truth is to be found.
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Well, let me expand the sentence. The real question is not who has most authority to make decisions about Lipa but what is the truth of what happened there.

    I think you and Bill S are perhaps more concerned about the legal status of decisions made in the Vatican than what may or may not have actually happened in apparition sites around the world.
    Julia likes this.
  12. Harper

    Harper Guest

    And if you believe that the truth of what happened somewhere is not reflected by the Church's ruling, then what?
  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I would hope to follow the Church authorities as Archbishop Arguelles is faithfully doing, while, at the same time, he makes clear what he believes the truth to be, namely that the apparitions of Lipa were authentic!
    Julia likes this.
  14. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Left to himself, I rather agree that Cardinal Muller would love to block quite a few activities associated with apparitions past and present. Fortunately, he has to stay obedient to Pope Francis. The pope has indeed indicated doubts about some (or even many) contemporary messages from Our Lady, as I also have, but the one you would love him to be negative about, Medjugorje, he will not allow any closure. Take my word for it.
    Julia likes this.
  15. Harper

    Harper Guest

    How can the archbishop possibly follow church authority faithfully if he makes clear he believes the Lipa apparitions to be authentic? That is proper obedience to authority? I suspect he will cease to comment on the matter.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2016
  16. Harper

    Harper Guest

    From the diary of St. Faustina, on the need to obey Our Lord's representatives:

    As I was talking to a certain person who was to paint the image but, for certain reasons, was not painting it, I heard this voice in my soul: “I want her to be more obedient”. I understood that our efforts, no matter how great, are not pleasing to God if they do not bear the seal of obedience; I am speaking about a religious soul. O God, how easy it is to know Your will in the convent! (354)

    When I left the confessional and started to recite my penance, I heard these words. “I have granted the grace you asked for on behalf of that soul, but not because of the mortification you chose for yourself. Rather, it was because of your act of complete obedience to My representative that I granted this grace to that soul for whom you interceded and begged mercy. Know that when you mortify your own self-will, then Mine reigns within you.” (365)

    “Yes.. when you are obedient I take away your weakness and replace it with My strength. I am very surprised that souls do not want to make that exchange with Me.” I said to the Lord, “Jesus, enlighten my heart, or else I, too, will not understand much from these words.” (381)
    sterph and Julia like this.
  17. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I wonder if any of you who pontificate about this authority and that authority and the other obedience to whatever authority of who ever, have read the whole story of what happened at Lipa, especially those who dared to think it might be genuine. There were not numerous messages in Lipa.

    How the whole affair was handled would make a dog cry, not to mention stones.

    There was another apparition site in France which was given similar appalling treatment, I think it was called Laus. Now a very holy Arch Bishop from Brussels who we all saw attacked on Utube by the naked feminists in public; has approved and supports the apparitions there from many years ago. It is a sorry thing that the Church chocked the efforts of Blessed Mother long before all the current apostasy got so bad. I wonder of Muller will destroy that as well. That was another heart breaking episode of indifference when I read about it.

    I don't follow most of the numerous messages out these days.

    But I am beginning to think those in authority are playing a game of now you see me now you don't with God Himself. And that will not bode well for them when we as ordinary Catholics are getting into debate with one another; because to be honest they are causing serious doubt in their ability to discern in the first place.

    The question is. Do they even know what TRUTH is anymore.
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men"

    Act 5, 29
  19. Harper

    Harper Guest


    As with Vassula, you set yourself up as the judge of what is true and what is not, and ignore the definitive ruling of the Church. Do you think your personal discernment is superior to those who are placed as head of the CDF by the Pope?

    The word for those who reject the authoritative rulings of the church is Protestant.
  20. Harper

    Harper Guest


    If anyone misuses his authority on earth, he will answer to God for it. The higher the office, the greater the responsibility, the more grave any misbehavior. I am very glad I only have to answer for my many sins, and don't have the burden of office.

    BUT once the Church--in the words of an authority--has spoken, we are to obey. Jesus carefully instructed St. Faustina in that. St. Padre Pio was a perfect example of that as well; when he was told to stop hearing confessions, he stopped hearing confessions. (ETA) That is the sacrifice God asks of us.
    Clare A likes this.

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