The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    You would be better off saying your prayers!
     
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  2. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/02/23/bishop-denies-communion-to-pro-abortion-senator/

    Bishop denies Communion to pro-abortion senator
    by Michael Davis

    posted Friday, 23 Feb 2018
    [​IMG]
    Senator Dick Durbin (Getty Images)
    Senator Durbin was one of 14 Catholics to vote against the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Bill

    Thomas Paprocki, the Bishop of Springfield in Illinois, has barred Senator Richard Durbin from receiving Holy Communion.

    The decision comes over a month after the United States Senate failed to pass the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which would have banned abortion after 20 weeks. Senator Durbin was among 14 Catholics who voted against the Act.

    In a statement issued by the diocese, Bishop Paprocki concurred with Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, who called its failure “appalling”.

    The bishop cited Canon 915: those “who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.”

    He then quoted the USCCB’s 2004 Statement on Catholics in Political Life: “Failing to protect the lives of innocent and defenceless members of the human race is to sin against justice,” it reads. “Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.”

    Bishop Paprocki said Durbin’s pro-abortion voting record proves “obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.” Therefore, “the determination continues that Sen Durbin is not to be admitted to Holy Communion until he repents of this sin.”

    “This provision is intended not to punish, but to bring about a change of heart,” he assures readers. “Sen Durbin was once pro-life. I sincerely pray that he will repent and return to being pro-life.”

    The bishop appears to pre-empt common objections to the practice of denying the Sacrament to politicians who support abortion. In 2009 Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the Archbishop of Washington, expressed concern over “Communion wielded as a weapon”. “That’s the new way now to make your point,” he added.

    Other American prelates have long defended the practice. When John Kerry visited Missouri during the 2004 presidential election, Cardinal Raymond Burke – then Archbishop of St Louis – denied him access to the Eucharist.
     
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    slippery slope, David
     
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  4. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Probably, garabandal, but that of course is true for all the critics as well.

     
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Although I've been designated as a modernist (as well as many other things!), I really agree with Cardinal Sarah in this latest contribution from him.

    The problem is that all the Popes since Paul VI have attempted to hold to this discipline with regard to the reception of Holy Communion but they have all failed. The laity have been showing their rebellious nature for a long time and I don't see any change in that in the near future.

     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I must admit I am a bit spooked by all this. How can it be that so many Catholics, even good Catholics cannot see the huge total evil we face? it is as though they were all blindfolded and running to hell. Poor, poor people. But so many Cardinals , Bishops and priests are sounding the alarm , EWTN have been superb; yet still they do not listen.

    Oh well, many prayers. Scripture, the saints , the Fathers of the Church all warned us to beware of these wolves, we were warned from the beginning these dark days would come upon us, but still the poor people sleep when the wolves are right at the door, now inside the fold. How terrible.
     
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  7. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I am so saddened that so many truly good Catholic people are sleeping.

    Still even a great saint like Mother Angelica had her, 'Wake up moment'. This happened , if you recall when Pope St John Paul 2 was visiting the USA and they had some woman playing the role of Jesus in the Stations of the Cross. This made mother furious but I think it changed her forever. It was her wake up forever moment.

    So if a saint like this had to be shaken awake there is hope for everyone.

    The thing about all this is that it is a very rapid downhill slide. So I hope as we hurtle down hill more and more honest good people will wake up as Mother Angelica did with a jolt. Before it is too late and they wake up in hell.
     
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  8. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    It is not the laity, but the lukewarm clergy who run the liturgy. The laity are puppets and will go along with change from the top, as we can see with what is happening with what Pope Francis is doing and what he is not doing.
     
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  9. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Cornered rodents are very violent, blessed sacramentals AND our Blessed Mother are the best protection. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    That's my experience. These things were never, in my hearing anyway, looked for by the laity, but always imposed apparently out of of nowhere and entirely without consultation. The very definition of a fait accompli. Unfortunately, the Church is too riven with clericalism, most exemplified by the tendency of the clerics, in the child-abuse crisis, to protect themselves rather than protect the interests of children. They wrecked our liturgy and gutted our churches in the seventies without taking a heed to our reservations and objections. It is bizarre to attempt to place the blame upon the laity for these degradations, other than the charge that we have been too passive.

    Things may change. The decline in vocations and the greater proportion of truly devout priests emerging from those lesser numbers implies that the future Church has a chance of being governed by those who are not merely lukewarm careerists, whose primary interests are power, personal comfort and secular popularity. In other words, the seeds that Cardinals Sarah and Bourke are sowing will grow to dominate, with the help of God.

    Things seem woeful now, indeed they really are, but we must remember that liberalism decays to atheism and paganism, and ultimately nihilism. Only the orthodox Catholics are going to persevere in the long term. They are also going to reproduce at a far greater rate than those contracepting and aborting themselves out of existence.
     
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  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    It is very sad when we are rejoicing over one Catholic bishop doing his job. This is to take nothing away from Bishop Paprocki. He seems, from everything I have read of him, a good and solid bishop. But what about all of the other bishops and cardinals? Almost every member of the democratic party and some republicans in the U.S. should be put under interdiction and even excommunication for voting for abortion among other things. That is not to mention the various MP's and heads of state around the world. Where is our leadership?
     
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  12. Light

    Light Guest

    Yes, I agree.

    It is my belief that there is an ongoing lack of concern by most priests for the ultimate destiny of souls entrusted to them.

    Seldom reference is made to endangerment of souls in our "Catholic" schools, where some teachers have little time for authentic Catholic doctrines.

    By and large the hierarchy are waiting on the sidelines, when Federal, Provincial and Municipal directives /legislations that directly conflict with our Christian beliefs are firstly proposed and enacted.

    The only answer is prayer.

    God Bless.
     
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  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    As Padraig points out in a recent post, you're doing better, on the whole, than we are on this side of the Atlantic. There's a crucial abortion referendum upcoming in Ireland and the only defiance I've heard here from a bishop (and at least he did try) is that, in a nutshell, legalising abortion would open things up to killing the rest of us. I don't wish to overly-criticise this bishop, as his intervention far surpasses the deafening silence of the rest of them, but the moral and intellectual deficiencies betrayed by his statement is breath-taking.
     
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  14. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Thank you.

    Unfortunately, the Church leadership has all too willingly been prepared to identify itself with the State. In doing so, they have mostly tripped over themselves in the rush to receive monies for their health, educational and various other charitable interests from the State. These monies are not without price.

    We fear suppression. I'm as big a coward as anyone on here, but I'm coming to think that suppression, oppression, or whatever one calls it, is possibly what our Church needs more than anything. It would whittle away the rotten timbers (which I pray I myself will not turn out to be part of, but one cannot know until the moment the blade is driven in) and only the true faithful would remain. I retain the hope that, in such circumstances, we would be pleasantly surprised at the reaction. I firmly believe that, in such a crunch, as in the time of Rome, many more than expected would awaken to the Truth.

    God's blessing to you, too.
     
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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yes, DeGaulle, it is the culture of death. There is no respect for human life. People are just gunning each other down and stabbing each other to death. From womb to tomb, no respect for life. One of the slogans here of the Pr0-Life movement is: "Respect life from womb to tomb."
     
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  16. Heidi

    Heidi Powers

    I think that a lot of Catholic leadership, teachers, etc. believe everyone goes to heaven, if they believe in heaven at all, and so they don’t think it is necessary to worry about people’s souls. That’s why they care so much about social justice.....that is all that is left if you remove the afterlife.
     
  17. Denise P

    Denise P Archangels

    I did not know that church bells were considered sacramentals and were specially blessed. I don’t know of any churches in my area that actually ring real bells anymore. It’s all tape recorded over a loud speaker. We sure could use the real thing for protection in our churches.
     
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-chaput-catholics-need-faith-and-reason-not-a-new-paradigm
    Archbishop Chaput: Catholics Need Faith and Reason, Not a New Paradigm
    Posted by Kevin J.Jones/CNA/EWTN News on Friday Feb 23rd, 2018 at 9:44 AM
    [​IMG]
    Recovering the discipline of good Catholic moral reasoning is urgent, Philadelphia shepherd says.
    [​IMG]

    PHILADELPHIA — St. John Paul II’s encyclical Fides et Ratio will mark its 20th anniversary this year, on Sept. 14. Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia reflected on the encyclical in his essay “Believe That You May Understand” in the March 2018 issue of First Things.

    Making the case that the 1998 encyclical on the relationship between faith and reason was a “prophetic” document that “confronts the crisis of truth within the Catholic Church herself,” the archbishop warned against “faddish” theology. Vigorous philosophy and good theology are, rather, mutually enriching. “Knowledge of the truth expands our freedom to love,” Archbishop Chaput said.

    In an interview with CNA, he spoke more about the encyclical’s relevance for today.

    How can the average Catholic benefit from Fides et Ratio, 20 years after its publication?

    The first thing to know is that it’s not the sort of text you can browse like the Sunday paper. Fides et Ratio takes time to read and absorb. Most people are rightly focused on things like raising a family and earning a living. So a lot of good people may never read it. But that doesn’t lessen its importance for the average believer.

    The main takeaway from Fides et Ratio is that learning how to think clearly, with the Church, in a mature and well-informed fashion, is vital. It’s every bit as crucial as feeling our religious convictions deeply. Sentiment isn’t enough, and that directly affects how we understand the role of conscience.

    Christian faith is more than goodwill and kind intentions. Conscience is more than our personally sincere opinions. A healthy conscience needs a strong formation in the commonly held truths of the Catholic community. Without it, conscience can very quickly turn into an alibi machine. The world is a complicated place. It requires sound Catholic reasoning skills rooted in the teaching of the Church.

    The trouble is that we’ve now had at least two generations of poor catechesis and very inadequate conscience formation. So when voices tell us to leave today’s hot-button moral decisions to the “adult consciences” of our people, we might want to agree — ideally — but before we do, we need to examine what exactly that means. We have a great many otherwise successful, credentialed adults who see themselves as Catholic but whose faith education stopped in the sixth grade. Recovering the discipline of good Catholic moral reasoning is urgent.

    If someone finds himself or herself in a cultural or ecclesial environment dominated by poor philosophy and theology, how should he or she respond?

    Ignore the nonsense, read, watch and listen to good Catholic material, and live your faith in conformity with what the Church has always taught. The basics still apply on marriage, sex, honesty and everything else. There are no “new paradigms” or revolutions in Catholic thought. Using that kind of misleading language only adds confusion to a confusing age.

    If we’re in an environment with good philosophy and theology, what do we need to guard against?

    Pride and complacency, and taking the blessing of good teachers and pastors for granted. All of us are called to be missionaries. We preach Jesus Christ best when we witness our faith well in the charity and justice of our daily actions.

    Why do you think these problems of faith and reason are so recurring in our time?

    Science and technology can seem — but only seem — to make the supernatural and sacramental implausible. The language of faith can start to sound alien and irrelevant. This is why we lose so many young people before they even consider religious belief. They’re catechized every day by a stream of materialist distractions that don’t disprove God, but create an indifference to him.

    The Church is struggling with a lot of self-doubt. It’s natural in an age of rapid change. I think many Church pastors and scholars have simply lost confidence in the rationality of faith and the reliability of God’s word, without being willing to admit it. Instead, they take refuge in humanitarian feelings and social action. But you don’t need God for either of those things, at least in the short run. In the long run, God is the only sure guarantor of human rights and dignity. So we need to think our Christianity — deeply, faithfully and rigorously — as well as feel it.

    Which is why Fides et Ratio is so important. It reminds us.
     
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  19. Heidi

    Heidi Powers

    This is great. I wish every Catholic would read this.
     
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  20. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...lk-at-popes-request-for-25m-for-rome-hospital

    US Donors Balk at Pope's Request for $25M for Rome Hospital
    The Vatican is facing another financial headache, after donors to a major U.S. Catholic foundation balked at a request from Pope Francis to foot a $25 million loan to a scandal-plagued Rome hospital.
    The Vatican is facing another financial headache, after donors to a major U.S. Catholic foundation balked at a request from Pope Francis to foot a $25 million loan to a scandal-plagued Rome hospital.

    By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican is facing another financial headache after donors to a major U.S. Catholic foundation balked at a request from Pope Francis to foot a $25 million loan to a scandal-plagued Rome hospital.

    The Immaculate Institute for Dermatology made headlines in 2013 when prosecutors discovered a nearly $1 billion hole in its accounts and placed 40 people, including its priestly director, under investigation for alleged money laundering, fraudulent bankruptcy and other crimes. In May, prosecutors handed down 24 indictments.

    The Vatican took over the hospital rather than let it fail, fearing for the livelihoods of its staff. But the hospital has struggled, and last summer the Vatican asked for a bridge loan from the U.S.-based Papal Foundation, a major source of funding for the Vatican's charity works around the globe.

    Started 30 years ago, the foundation has disbursed some $100 million for papal-endorsed charity projects, including $32,000 to buy an electric generator for a religious congregation in Benin last year, $100,000 to build a new seminary building in Brazil and $70,000 to build a primary school for poor children in Bangladesh. For their generosity, donors get a special papal audience each year.

    But according to leaked foundation documents published by the conservative Catholic website Lifesite, several "stewards" or donors to the foundation opposed the loan, given the amount requested, the lack of due diligence about the hospital's financials and the process by which American cardinals overruled the donors to approve the pope's request.

    "These recent actions will make it virtually impossible to recruit new stewards or to retain the membership of many current stewards," warned the chairman of the foundation's audit committee in a letter summarizing the scandal posted this week by Lifesite. "In many respects, the decision to grant $25 million to a dermatology hospital in Rome without proper due diligence is a disaster for the Papal Foundation."

    The foundation didn't dispute the authenticity of the documents. It issued a statement saying it doesn't comment on individual grant requests and that its mission hasn't changed "to serve those needs of the Church that are of particular significance to the Holy Father."

    The Vatican declined repeated requests for comment Thursday and Friday.

    According to the audit committee summary, the first few million dollars of the loan were handed over without any supporting documentation from the hospital. When members requested further information, no balance sheet was provided, just a thick binder of mostly Italian documents about medical procedures and resumes.

    By January, the American cardinals who have the final say in the foundation's decisions stepped back, realizing the "significant division" that had been created by the request.

    In a Jan. 19 letter to the donors, the foundation's executive committee said that no further money would be provided to the Vatican for the hospital, leaving about half of the $25 million request unfunded. The clerics proposed that any future grant over $1 million would be approved by a majority of lay and clerical trustees on the board.

    "This is not a guaranteed answer for any problem in the future, but we do believe it will help prevent future scenarios like the one we have just experienced," the letter read.
     
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