The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    That is very odd :unsure: Now that you point that out,.. what struck me was at the beginning of the video and the Holy See Press Office denying Pope Benedict was suffering from a degenerative disease that could leave him paralyzed and affect his heart
    refuting the statements Pope Benedicts own brothero_O
    Also as far as Raymond Arroyo is concerned and anyone trying to block what he is doing will have a real problem due to the fact that Mother Angelica stepped down from control of EWTN in 2000 and handed control to a board of lay people. A wise move on her part:cautious:
    They may however go after the priests like Fr. Gerald Murray or any other religious associated with EWTN.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  2. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Venezuela in a desperate situation. How much of it could have been avoided had the Vatican under the current leadership listened to the pleas of the Venezuelan bishops?

    FEBRUARY 21, 2018 / 4:25 PM / UPDATED 18 HOURS AGO
    Venezuelans report big weight losses in 2017 as hunger hits

    Vivian Sequera
    3 MIN READ
    CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty, according to a new university study on the impact of a devastating economic crisis and food shortages.

    Continue here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-losses-in-2017-as-hunger-hits-idUSKCN1G52HA


    [​IMG]

    Will Venezuela be Pope Francis's downfall?
    By Monica Showalter
    The world's first Latin American pope isn't exactly covering himself with glory as the hellfire of Venezuela immolates that God-forsaken nation.

    Fact is, he's been remarkably silent about the socialist communist disaster engulfing that country, not using the sharp language he is known for whenever he expresses displeasure about the United States, as William McGurn notes in this first-class essay, which is probably his best.

    After all, Venezuela's bishops are tweeting prayers in their country's darkest hour with pleas such as "free our homeland from the claws of communism and socialism."

    They know the deal. The bishops are also openly asking whether protests and civil disobedience and nonviolent resistance are valid anymore, given their uselessness against hardcore communists determined to hold power forever.

    Yet Francis remains incredibly unenthusiastic, probably because Venezuela does not fit into his narrative, as McGurn notes, citing an expert from the Acton Institute:

    The Acton Institute's Samuel Gregg was probably closer to the mark when he recently put it this way: "Venezuela's crisis doesn't fit into Pope Francis's standard way of explaining contemporary political and economic problems. It's very hard for the pope to blame Venezuela's problems on the tyranny of Mammon, financial speculation, free trade agreements, arms-dealers, nefarious 'neoliberals,' or any of his usual list of suspects."

    The pope's been in bed with liberation theology for years and has made some showy showings of hanging out with some of its Marxist dinosaurs, notably its founder, Fr. Gustavo Gutiérrez, from Peru, as well as "rehabilitating" him. Liberation theology can stand up and take a bow in Venezuela – the late, unlamented dictator, Hugo Chávez, consistently cited the hellhole he was creating as a product of liberation theology. As if that were not bad enough, the pope has also had several cordial meetings with Venezuela's current brutal dictator, Nicolás Maduro.

    What it all points to is that the pope needs to either blast the nightmare in Venezuela or watch his own credibility go down the drain as civil war engulfs that country – and it can't stay off the news for long. Either he slays the Venezuelan dragon or the Venezuelan dragon will slay him.


    Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...a_be_pope_francis_downfall.html#ixzz57qLRXa5t
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
     
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  3. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Sg, Wow. Imho, this could be a sign that he does not respect the Pope. Maybe God is trying to warn the Pope to be suspicious of Father Spadaro. Good pick up.

    Sg,

    I think you are in the right place but maybe you have not realized it yet. I believe that you are with Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider, like Praetorian stated they
    "do not reject the Pope or his authority. They do reject error." I believe that is where you are at. I recommend that you steer clear of any websites which do reject the authority of the Pope at least until you fully understand what Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider are stating in the Pope's regard.

    In addition, Father Wolfe offers some very good advice from St. Irenaeus in the video Our Lady of Revelation part 9. He states that St. Irenaeus warned us not to try and determine who the Antichrist is. I think that this idea should apply to the False Prophet also. The following is from NewAdvent.org,

    Although certain as to the number of the name of Antichrist, yet we should come to no rash conclusions as to the name itself,
    because this number is capable of being fitted to many names. Reasons for this point being reserved by the Holy Spirit. Antichrist's reign and death.
    http://newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm

     
  4. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Carol thank you for these points made here. I have just started watching the videos of "Our Lady of Revelations". Truly eye openers, I have found that this forum is my go-to for research ideas in regards to the happenings of the church and world.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  5. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Yes, I too can't figure out what is behind the denial :unsure:
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  6. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Carol is right. Take a step back and pray about all these things specifically which are troubling.

    I believe that it will become self evident to anyone practicing the Faith who these are we are told to expect. We can not unravel the mystery which God has sealed up until such time as He chooses to reveal it to us.
     
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  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Sadly, Archbishop Chaput has been categorized as a 'baddie' on the forum. I've just been reading a new essay from him which is wonderful. I copy a few paragraphs from it, below:

    In this respect, consider another event the Church celebrates this year: the fiftieth anniversary of Paul VI’s great 1968 encyclical, Humanae Vitae. That text stressed the intrinsic relationship between spousal love and spousal openness to new life. Contraception breaks the relationship between marital union and the procreation and education of children. In doing so, it redefines the nature and purpose of human sexuality. We now have a fabricated world of sex without children, a world where we can generate (or even design) new life without human intercourse.

    What does this do to the idea of human personhood? Paul VI understood, and Pope Francis has often repeated and reinforced, that the purpose of sexual intimacy is grounded in the complementarity of man and woman, open to life. If we ignore this truth, we scramble the identity and purpose of our species. We’re meant to be beings who relate to God, to one another, and to ourselves in genuine love, through our bodies and choices. Knowing the truth about our nature makes us free for that vocation.

    Human beings are more fruitful and authentic in their relationships and inner lives when they know they’re bound by a truth beyond themselves. Fides et Ratio describes the connection between truth and human freedom. Knowing what’s true makes us free to be ourselves, to live for what’s real, and to appreciate the dignity of others. True knowledge of persons leads to an expansion of human love. That’s part of any sound philosophy.

    Fides et Ratio also responds to another major intellectual problem of modernity: its bias against (or fear of?) transcendence. Human reason is naturally oriented toward exploring life’s deepest realities. We search for what is ultimate. We want to find the real origin of things. We ask why. This search leads us to the question of God. In the words of John Paul: “Wherever men and women discover a call to the absolute and transcendent, the metaphysical dimension of reality opens up before them: in truth, in beauty, in moral values, in other persons, in being itself, in God.” But our modern rationality too often adopts a crippling kind of skepticism that imprisons us within the world of politics, economics, and technology.

    ......

    John Henry Newman taught that the development of church doctrine is organic, so that later developments build on and preserve previous teachings in a continuity of meaning. Vatican II and the Council of Trent need to be read in relation to each other, as do the papacies of Francis and Benedict XVI. Historicism in theology transforms this organic development into a process of division or arbitrary change. And this in turn splits the Church, the body of Christ. But the unity of Catholic theology is primary through all the changes of history, just as the unity of the Church remains and needs to be acknowledged above the fray of all passing opinions. Philosophy protects the core of Christian faith against historicism and encourages a disciplined approach to questions of development in the Church’s teaching.

    Finally, without vigorous philosophy, theology and the very life of the Church risk slipping into emotivism. In the name of being pastoral, the Church threatens to become merely indulgent, malleable, affective, and practical; in effect, anti-intellectual. This is exactly the wrong moment for that kind of mistake.

    .......

    Each of us lives in a limited window before death, a time privileged with responsibility and choice. We’re made in the image of God, beings blessed with self-awareness who seek the truth and are meant to communicate it with courage and love. The greatest compassion we can show our neighbor is the mercy of preaching and teaching Jesus Christ. Our age presents us with a time of decision. We stand in a shadowland between faith and unbelief, witness and accommodation, even within the Church.

    We who have received the truth can shrink from our vocation to preach the gospel. We have that freedom of will. Or we can embrace the sequela Christi, the following of Christ, in season and out. Fides et Ratio guides us toward a fuller embrace of the privilege of teaching and preaching the beauty of the Church, her doctrines and her vision of man. We can and should follow that path without being afraid. Because today, tomorrow, and always, her truth is rooted in Jesus Christ, the foundation that will never falter.

    https://www.firstthings.com/article/2018/03/believe-that-you-may-understand

     
  8. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Praetorian,

    What you have stated above is true but I would like to offer the following for your consideration.

    When Pope Saint John Paul II spoke of the third secret of Fatima, he appeared to be speaking of a man-made catastrophe,

    In a 1980 interview for the German magazine Stimme des Glaubens published in October 1981, John Paul II was asked explicitly to speak about the third secret.
    He said:

    Because of the seriousness of its contents, in order not to encourage the world wide power of Communism to carry out certain coups, my predecessors in the chair of Peter have diplomatically preferred to withhold its publication. On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this much: if there is a message in which it is said that the oceans will flood entire sections of the earth; that, from one moment to the other, millions of people will perish... there is no longer any point in really wanting to publish this secret message. Many want to know merely out of curiosity, or because of their taste for sensationalism, but they forget that 'to know' implies for them a responsibility. It is dangerous to want to satisfy one's curiosity only, if one is convinced that we can do nothing against a catastrophe that has been predicted." He held up his rosary and stated "Here is the remedy against this evil. Pray, pray and ask for nothing else. Put everything in the hands of the Mother of God." Asked what would happen in the Church, he said: "We must be prepared to undergo great trials in the not-too-distant future; trials that will require us to be ready to give up even our lives, and a total gift of self to Christ and for Christ. Through your prayers and mine, it is possible to alleviate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because it is only in this way that the Church can be effectively renewed. How many times, indeed, has the renewal of the Church been effected in blood? This time, again, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong, ... we must entrust ourselves to Christ and to His holy Mother, and we must be attentive, very attentive, to the prayer of the Rosary."[34]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fátima

    Also we have the following which appears to speak of a man-made catastrophe possibly one in which God saves the world from total destruction through the intervention of Our Lady, possibly the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart,

    The text of the Third Secret, according to the Vatican, was published on June 26, 2000:

    J.M.J.

    The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fátima, on 13 July 1917.
    I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.
    After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
    Tuy-3-1-1944.[15][18]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fátima

    So yes, Vatican II was announced in 1959 but the following also occurred in 1960 and 1961,

    Efforts in the United States soon shifted towards developing miniaturized Teller–Ulam weapons that could fit into intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched ballistic missiles. By 1960, with the W47 warhead[24] deployed on Polaris ballistic missile submarines, megaton-class warheads were as small as 18 inches (0.5 m) in diameter and 720 pounds (320 kg) in weight...

    The Soviets demonstrated the power of the "staging" concept in October 1961, when they detonated the massive and unwieldy Tsar Bomba, a 50 megaton hydrogen bomb that derived almost 97% of its energy from fusion. It was the largest nuclear weapon developed and tested by any country...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

    It's probably best to end this post by repeating the advice given to us by Pope Saint John Paul II,

    "We must be strong, ... we must entrust ourselves to Christ and to His holy Mother,
    and we must be attentive, very attentive, to the prayer of the Rosary."

    _________
    Edited to add:

    You all know how I am about "signs", I came across the following article when I was searching for the above information. The timing of a major flood in Lourdes is worth noting - October 2012, right at the time a relic of Pope Saint John Paul II was exposed for veneration. https://www.gloria.tv/article/6KexnAUdGPAT2tDpgAecBHTr3 From the article,

    "I've seen nothing like it in 40 years," said hotel-owner Pierre Barrere as he watched the pilgrims being evacuated.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I agree with the Archbishop that Amoris Laetitia must be read in an orthodox manner in line with teachings of the previous Popes especially John Paul II's Familiaris Consortio.

    Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia has said that it would be good for Pope Francis to answer the dubia, and that Francis cannot contradict Pope St John Paul II’s teaching on marriage in Familias Consortio.

    Archbishop Chaput said that this teaching, and Jesus’s prohibition of adultery, could not be changed: “It seems to me that it’s impossible for us to contradict the words of Jesus, and it’s also impossible for a teaching to be true 20 years ago not to be true today when it’s the teachings of the pope.

    “The teachings of Pope Francis can’t contradict the teachings of John Paul II when it is a matter of official teaching.”

    The archbishop said that Amoris Laetitia should be interpreted “in the light of what’s gone before it, primarily the words of Jesus, but secondarily the teachings of the pope, the Magisterium of the Church.


    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...-cannot-contradict-john-paul-ii-on-communion/
     
  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you Carol,

    All good points. What I would say though is that none of the points you have cited here became more clear between 1957 and 1960. So it still needs to be an event that occurred between those dates according to Sister Lucy.

    I think the Third Secret most likely referred to more than one thing. Fr. Malachi Martin said it was an either/or. Either we do A, B, and C or D, E, and F will happen. So it is very possible the Third Secret referred to an event that the Church became aware of between 1957 and 1960 and that we were supposed to react to in a certain way. If we failed to do that then the result may be the Russians making certain military moves, massive flooding on the coastlines, etc. In essence a Chastisement.

    That is where the evidence leads me.
     
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  11. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Praetorian,

    That post of mine was so long, I apologize. You may have missed my point that nuclear warheads were developed that could fit into ICBM's by 1960,

    Efforts in the United States soon shifted towards developing miniaturized Teller–Ulam weapons that could fit into intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched ballistic missiles. By 1960, with the W47 warhead[24] deployed on Polaris ballistic missile submarines, megaton-class warheads were as small as 18 inches (0.5 m) in diameter and 720 pounds (320 kg) in weight...

    The Soviets demonstrated the power of the "staging" concept in October 1961, when they detonated the massive and unwieldy Tsar Bomba, a 50 megaton hydrogen bomb that derived almost 97% of its energy from fusion. It was the largest nuclear weapon developed and tested by any country...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon
    PS- You guys are tough some times, lol. :LOL: I don't give up easy either. ;) You can correct me if I am wrong about this since I am no expert but the dates lineup, imho.
     
  12. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 14:33
    Archbishop Scicluna recovering well
    He had his gallbladder removed at a hospital in Santiago
    [​IMG]
    Updated 6.40pm

    Archbishop Charles Scicluna is recovering well after he had his gallbladder removed at a hospital in Santiago, Chile on Wednesday morning, the Curia said.

    He is now in good condition and recovering well from laparoscopic cholecystectomy, a minimally invasive procedure with a very good prognosis.

    It is expected that the recovery time at the hospital will take between 48 and 72 hours.

    The surgery was carried out by San Carlos de Apoquindo Hospital's Department of Digestive Surgery, headed by Dr Rodrigo Miguieles. He was admitted to hospital on Tuesday at 9pm with abdominal pain he felt on previous days.

    After being examined by a medical team, he was diagnosed with probable acute cholecystitis and various tests were performed to confirm the diagnosis.

    The condition first required antibiotic and analgesic treatment for the inflammation of the gallbladder, followed by a laparoscopic surgery to remove the gallbladder.

    The archbishop is in Chile as the pope's envoy to hear evidence on clerical child abuse allegations.

    Read: Archbishop Scicluna sent to Chile to investigate bishop accused of child abuse cover up

    The Maltese bishop began meeting victims and others opposed to the appointment of a bishop accused of covering up for the country's most notorious paedophile priest.

    Catholic bishop's conference spokesman Jaime Coiro said Pope Francis has called for interviews with witnesses to continue from Wednesday through to Friday as planned. A Spanish priest who is assisting Archbishop Scicluna will take part.

    https://www.timesofmalta.com/articl...hbishop-scicluna-hospitalised-in-chile.671344
     
  13. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thanks Carol,

    Sorry I didn't mean to be tough. :) I didn't miss that actually, but my thoughts were that though common knowledge now, I would think that these types of things would be state secrets at the time unless they are purposely demonstrated to the world at the Soviets did in 1961, but this is past the time limit.

    So could this have been mentioned in the Third Secret? Of course. BUT I think it is very important to stress that Our Lady appears to warn us of spiritual dangers. That is what is most important. Any physical dangers she mentions in her apparitions (wars, famines, etc.) are always consequences of not heeding her spiritual warnings about sin. For example WWII was predicted by her if we did not amend our sinful ways. She did not appear to warn us about WWII. Only that it could be a consequence.

    So while it is possible that the Third Secret mentions war, even nuclear war, I find it highly unlikely that Our Lady would appear purely to let mankind know that nuclear weapons are dangerous. That point is self evident. She appears for the spiritual welfare of her children. The Third Secret must contain some very great spiritual danger. All those who have read it have said it does. This includes men high up in the Church, bishops and cardinals. I have not ever heard one of them say it refers directly to nuclear weapons.
     
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  14. Sam

    Sam Powers

    I don't recall any one categorizing Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia as a baddie? There were some comments about Cardinal Blase Joseph Cupich of Chicago.
     
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    That was my first thought too. This idea seems to be invented by the poster.
     
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  16. Sam

    Sam Powers



    It seems people mix these two up and I hate to see it, but unfortunately it is a common mistake.
     
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  17. Thank you for the discussion on this thread. Each person brings heartfelt thoughts in their post. Surely Our Lord hears our prayers and supplications for Him to be glorified on this earth. The Pope Francis has called for tomorrow, Feb 23 to be a day of prayer and fasting. Although he says it should be for South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of the Congo just looking through the pages of this thread we could include the people of Venezuela, the people of China and more. Additionally the people in South Africa are facing a severe drought. Their water is being severely rationed and they are just a couple of months away from no more water. Please pray and fast as health allows for consolation and remedies for the many, many people who are suffering.
     
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    That's true, I do it myself. Chaput is a great man, Cupich tends very heterodox.
     
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  19. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you WBTW :)
    This is an excellent example of when we can humbly submit to a Pope asking the laity to do something. A proper exercise of office. Perhaps even if we very much disagree with the Pope on other issues then this would be a good time to demonstrate outwardly we are humble and loyal to the papacy, the Church, and to Christ by fasting and praying tomorrow if we are able. (y)
     
  20. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Yes Sam, you're quite correct. I apologise to everyone. I keep getting the two names mixed up :barefoot:.

     

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