Discerning Apparitions

In 1130, Pope Honorius II lay dying and the cardinals decided that they would entrust the election to a commission of eight men, led by papal chancellor Haimeric, who had his candidate Cardinal Gregory Papareschi hastily elected as Pope Innocent II. He was consecrated on February 14, the day after Honorius' death.
On the same day, the other cardinals, led by the senior Cardinal Bishop, Pietro of Porto, met with the leaders of Rome in the Basilica of S. Marco, and announced that Innocent had not been canonically elected. He nominated Cardinal Pietro Pierleoni, a Roman whose family were the enemy of Haimeric's supporters the Frangipani, who was elected by the Cardinals, clergy, nobility and People of Rome. Anacletus' supporters included the entire Roman aristocracy, with the exception of the Frangipani, and the majority of the Cardinals. With the support of the People, and in opposition to the French Haimeric, the Pierleoni were powerful enough to take control of Rome, while Innocent was forced to flee north of the Alps.
However, north of the Alps, Innocent gained the crucial support of St. Bernard of Clairvaux, Peter the Venerable, and other prominent reformers who personally helped him to gain recognition from European rulers such as Emperor Lothar III, leaving Anacletus with few patrons. Anacletus had been a relatively acceptable candidate for the Papacy, being well-respected, so rumors centering on his descent from a Jewish convert were spread to blacken his reputation. Among Anacletus' supporters were duke William X of Aquitaine, who decided for Anacletus against the will of his own bishops, and the powerful Roger II of Sicily, whose title of "King of Sicily" Anacletus had approved by papal bull after his accession.

 

A troll is someone who appears just to stir up something.* Cardinal Arinze says nothing about Medjugorje in the clip of his talk, yet you use your idea of what he thinks about Medjugorje to impeach him, without providing any evidence at all.

Sometimes I get the feeling you have ideas about your station, David, as you do go on to blast recognized Church authorities as "lacking discernment" whenever they might disagree with you. You made the same accusation about Fr. Chad Ripperger, a theologian, exorcist and seminary professor, at the beginning of this thread. (Not to mention the Ratzinger/Benedict/Leveda statements on Vassula (TM) since there is a whole thread on that.) Claiming superior discernment is pretty bold indeed. Surely the Cardinal deserves more respect.

*I don't necessarily see a troll as necessarily attacking a poster, btw.

 

Please, do not call someone a Troll... It is not pleasant, when brother calls brother the internet troll.

But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. Do notassume that I have come to bring peace to theearth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.…

Was Jesus a Troll?

 

Considering the amount of criticism of the Holy Father on this forum, I consider a post questioning the discernment of a Cardinal is very minor matter indeed. I will continue to respond to posts which I believe to potentially lead people into error. My understanding is that this is the purpose of your posts also.

 

LV: Jesus was the exemplar of all virtues. Everything he said or did had pure purpose; his mission was to heal the breach between God and man, to teach and save us.

David, I believe questioning the discernment of a cardinal on a subject not part of the original post, and without providing any supporting information/links, is provocative and misleading to others. If you want to support your criticism of Arinze, please do so.

I have no control over other postings on the Holy Father and haven't staked a claim to a negative position on him on this forum. I have stated repeatedly I wished he wouldn't talk off the cuff so much.

And yes, the purpose of my posts is to discuss the faith and point out information that may help others avoid error. I consider you a pot-stirrer, but you seem to put thought and research into most of your posts. Not that you don't make mistakes, in my view. However, "daily troll" has a ring to it and I couldn't resist.

 

Harper, I agree with you in many points, I agreed with you also in other thread. I only want to spread this spirit: It is better to be careful in condemnation of prophets, because not all Christians got the gift of discernment.
I do according to Bible:
Consider carefully what you are about to do to these men. Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”

This sentence should be the motto of this thread and another threads.

 

I don't think we're far apart, LV. I respect your sincerity.

We don't need the charismatic gift of discernment of spirits to judge contemporary messengers. The Vatican has published its guidelines on discernment, listing criteria it uses (positive things such as humility, giving glory to God, living a moral, chaste Christian life, obedience; negatives such as grandiosity, attention-seeking, anger issues). This is immensely helpful to lay people. Part of the reason the Vatican released the list-- it has long existed -- was because of the number of "messages" being spread among the faithful. Guidelines can help pastors and others in the early stages, before a full Church investigation can be conducted, and keep credulous souls from being misled.

Experts say the vast majority of seers are false. The Vatican guidelines can serve as a filter. I still say we have a duty to cry wolf when we see one.

 

I agree with experts. And this forum is also full of false prophets... However, My work is not to condemn them, but I post facts and opinions which are in contrary with these false expectations. And everyone can choose, which fruit is sweeter for his spirit.

 

Dear friends,

I am so thrilled to share with you some of the messages of Our Lady in Medjugorje. They come in 3 volumes. The first time I heard about these messages, I loved them, I would wake up early in the morning everyday to listen to them, so I can start my day with new principles and a new heart. Then, I contacted the people who produced them to make them available for me to share. Anytime I hear them, I am reminded about what God and Our Lady wants from me. I receive the guidance I need for my day, my life.

In one of them, Our Lady said, “Dear children, also today I call you to renew Prayer and Fasting, with even more enthusiasm. Pray until prayer becomes a joy for you. Only through Prayer and Fasting can wars be stopped. The one who prays is not afraid of the future and the one who fasts is not afraid of evil. Decide for God, and He will protect you…”

In another message, Our Lady said, “Dear children, again, I call you to prayer with the heart. If you pray with the heart, the ice of your brothers will melt, and every barrier will disappear, conversion will be easy for all who desire it. That is the gift you must obtain for your neighbor.” I meet many people who are suffering for their children, their loved ones, who are going through hardships and away from God, please do not lose hope, as you can see Our Lady gives us a way to Hope.

For anyone who thinks that Medjugorje is not yet approved, you are right, but remember before Kibeho, Fatima and Lourdes, Divine Mercy Messages were approved, they were not approved. It took years for people who had faith in them, to stand strong for them until the church had another look and approved them. What I am trying to say, be patient and kind to those who believe, and maybe you can try to find out more yourself, until we hear the final judgement of the Church. As Our Lady often says, if you don’t believe in any apparition, believe and put in practice the message of the Bible wholeheartedly. The messages of Our Lady are no different. She comes to remind us what we have forgotten, to clear up what we misunderstood and to give us strength.

The messages are downloadable HERE or the LINK below. Keep them in your library of songs and audios, and listen to them often, they will change your life.

God bless you,
Immaculee

 

Thank you Fatima. What a timely message to post. What a wise approach for all of us. Immaculee has, as we say, street cred. Thanks again.

 

Had to post it. I had it stuck in my head after going to the YouthFest in Medjugorje. Look at the fruits theres several Exorcists that believe in it as well. The deliverance I witnessed there as well. roughly about 540 priest concelebrating Mass. Close to 100 confessionals going at the same time. I was brought to inner tears walking through the confessional area. I also saw someone from my past i met ones who was from across Europe going up krizevac what are the chances divine providence in my eyes.

 

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Thanks be to God for allowing Our Blessed Mother to come to us to bring us back to Her Son, and for us who were not Catholic, for bringing us into His Church! It is because of Her that many have been saved through Her love and warnings. What would I have done and been without Her!!!

 

I forgot to mention about the Polish girls walking barefoot up Mt. Krizevac lol I think I felll in love jk. I was impressed with the Priest who gave the homily as well one of the nights I believe he was involved with community Cenacalo. He was one of the holiest men I have ever met keep him in prayers and Gods timing I saw him praying on one of the mountains in front of the statue of Mary some nights later and recognized him deep in contemplation. Didn't mean to to hijack the thread completely just wanted to share the fruits God gave me there.